Hang in there Paula, hang in there girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
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Hang in there Paula, hang in there girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
After visiting with her therapist this week, my wife has decided not to fight this anymore, so I can dress femme at home again now, and she won't freak out. She's trying - this stuff is just super hard.
We're going to counseling together as a couple thursday. I'm hoping she'll go with me en femme, and then go out to lunch with me. I'm going to make sure that's comfortable for her though. I know this is all super hard, and while I need this, I have to consider her too.
We've decided to talk less about this stuff with each other. (Yay!) We've decided to not share our counseling session details with each other. (Double yay!) We're back to me moving out in 5-6 months or so. Which is fine. I need to move when I start to transition. I think that will likely be exponentially harder for her, and it isn't safe in this community to do it. I'm not looking for a bubble-like coccoon of safety - this is the real world. But my town would be hostile, and it's just dumb to try something this hard when facing significant open opposition. Plus, my wife might suffer from the townsfolk, and I will not tolerate putting her in harm's way.
This is a pretty crazy story huh?
edit: I forgot to mention - we're sending my wife away for a 3 days at a spa this weekend. She originally suggested that we both go, and I'd love this - but I pointed out to her "Hey, hon, look - I am mostly what is causing you stress, so why don't you go alone, unwind, relax, think about this stuff, or NOT THINK ABOUT IT AT ALL - whatever you need. Just go alone, go somewhere nice, and I'll stay here." She leaped at that, and is counting down the hours.
Na, not at all. It's a real privilege to be a part of it ..Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
My wife and I went to her therapist today together for the first time. I was dressed, and we had a pretty good session, mostly talking about the stuff that happened between us this weekend. We agreed to let me dress at home as much as I need - I'll probably be dressed 80-90% of the time. (Sometimes I have to present as male, at least until I move.) We went out for a nice lunch together afterwards - this was the first time we'd really been out in public together. (The therapist almost doesn't count - his office is very private.)
I'm REALLY comfortable out in public while presenting as a female. I love it, honestly, and can't wait to go 24/7. I know everyone thinks this, and usually they are wrong, but I think I pass some of the time. Kind of surprises me, to be honest.
As you may have noticed, Paula, I'm not in the US (and I've never been there). I've no idea how things work out in a small town like yours. I am a bit puzzled though.
You insist that the town in general would be hostile to you should you transition. Are you absolutely sure of this? I would have imagined that the malicious tongues are going to wag anyway, either about your transition or about your leaving. Either way it wouldn't be pleasant for your wife and family. At least, if you stay, you'll know what is being said and why and, just maybe, you would be able to do something about it. They won't have the need or opportunity to make up outright lies about your leaving the family home. Wouldn't things calm down after the initial furore?
Yes, I am absolutely sure of this. This community is mostly older people, and it is conservative, and most of the people are fundamentalists. Religion is very important here. There is also a very good measure of poverty, which breeds a certain amount of intolerance as well. This is a nasty combination. Gossip here is a full-contact sport. My wife sells real estate. She could very well be shunned and lose business - lots of business - because of me. Gay people in this community (and I know four of them) are barely tolerated, and they need to be very stealthy - it needs to be plausible that they are just "two really close friends." (Nobody really believes that - but it's important to be able to pretend that.) Despite this, they still get a fair amount of grief and some people simply will NOT deal with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy Smith
There is a reasonable probability that I could face physical violence here. Certainly I'd face a lot of social hostility. I'd also cause a lot of shame for a number of my friends here.
This is one of the worst places in the continental US to transition. I've been told of a couple of trans people from here - they left.
The nearest support for someone with trans issues is 50 miles away, as is the nearest hospital I'd trust to see me should something go wrong when I start HRT.
I've talked to a LOT of people - NOBODY thinks it would be a good idea for me to stay here. I also don't really believe my wife is going to handle watching me transition anyway.
Thanks Paula. This is background info that I simply didn't know! I suspect that, if I were to transition (almost certainly not!), then the reaction round here would be "OK. So?" followed by "Have you had the - you know - operation?"! I'd probably get a few odd looks too. It puts us at opposite ends of the scale in that respect.
I really hope that this works out for you. It looks as if you have a really uphill struggle, but it's things like that that we need sometimes - just to prove to ourselves that we are _alive_!
Take care...
I showed this to my wife who said "What's the big deal, you're still you".
You see my wife has known since our first date that I was a CD and has as much fun with Cheryl as I.
She has a husband AND a best girl friend who loves to shop as much as she.
You're wife maybe ought to ligten-up, so says my wife.
This is really a weird phenomenon. I call it the Liberace Syndrome:Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
Everybody Knows, But Nobody Talks...
You did the right thing. Things will work themselves out. I know they will. I think we all battle with whether the wife would find someone for masculine but love always prevail.
OK, some updates since it's been a while. I came out to my mom and her husband over the weekend. That went really, really well. She remembered my struggles with this stuff growing up, and so being trans made sense to her. She is sad about my marriage, and feels bad for my wife, but she supports me, and realized I wouldn't announce something like this unless I was really serious. Her husband is a psychologist, so he is open minded, and could appreciate how hard it was for me to come to terms with being trans. anyway both were totally supportive.
This weekend is about coming out to my kids. They are 25 & 26. I'm hoping my wife will be able to kind of keep it together when we tell them. I think this will be hard for them.
Paula, I'm happy you're making steps forward. I hope it will be OK with your kids, and that they're open-minded enough to accept you.
- Amy
I think my kids will come around. They are open minded. I'm anticipating they may have trouble at first. Maybe not - but they are at a tough age for this.
Heh, looking back over this thread, I've really gone fast. The epic outbreak of GD I've been dealing with hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm feeling much better now (I don't wear men's clothes much anymore, and my meds are kicking in finally), but I also know I'm on borrowed time. Antidepressants aren't going to keep this stuff at bay forever.
Oh, I did have one incident with my wife to relate. I went to a party held by one of my trans friends on friday. I WAAAY overdressed - good flip flops would've been overdressed - but I wore a LBD with sequins, lots o'makeup, hose, jewelry, and heels. I had fun dressing up - I don't usually do that. My wife saw me, and was furious "what would YOU think if I left the house without you dressed like that?!?!" I wasn't quite sure how to interpret her comments. Also - wish she'd learn something. It's not like anyone at the party could actually DO anything...
I'm not sure if she thought I looked too good, or too bad, or what. I'd assume not silly, since she didn't laugh. I'd ask her what she thought - but discretion is the better part of valor, sometimes...
I came out to my kids as trans this weekend. First question from my step son wasn't about me - it was 'what happens to your marriage'. My wife and I were together as we told them about this - but we had to be honest and tell them that our marriage would end soon, although we intended to stay friends and I'd visit frequently. The kids were much more upset about the marriage than me, to be honest. My son didn't say much - he was worried, I found out later, that I'd have surgery imminently. We disabused him of that notion. My step-son and his fiancé were very accepting, and in fact met me as Paula the next day. I don't appear to be losing my kids over this, which is great.
The visit was tough for my wife though - two days of me presenting as male was nice for her. But when I met my step-son and his fiance as female, that was hard for her.
We were talking this over tonight, my wife and I. She hasn't been doing well since the weekend. I'll be moving out as soon as I can get a place and get settled, hopefully within a month. We'll be divorced within the next 2-3 months, we'll likely start the proceedings about 4 months to the day that I came out to her.
I guess I'll keep up this thread until we file for divorce. There doesn't seem to be much point in carrying on after that. I'll literally be out of our house, and out of her life, I'm suspecting for a while. I think she won't want to see me much while I transition. Maybe she'll never want to see me again.
I'm hoping we'll remain friends, and that I can still visit sometimes - I want that for myself, and for our kids, and future grandkids. But we'll see how that goes. After talking to her tonight, I'm not so sure. This is hard for her, and I've offered to make this as easy for her as I can. Trouble is - I'm the problem. So it seems like the best solution is just for me to be gone.
Everything I try to do seems to hurt my wife. I presented as male and BBQ'd some chicken for dinner. While waiting for dinner, my wife stressed how anxious she was for me to leave. That was a drag, but I tried to be positive and understanding.
Later, she was a little tipsy, and wanted to fool around. We did, and she wept afterwards. :(
Tonight, after she got home, she couldn't stand to talk to me while I presented female, so she went upstairs. I changed back to drab, so I could talk to her, but that just made her feel guilty and cry.
This is just terrible. :(
Sigh...it's almost tragic, Paula. It's as neat a cleft stick as ever caught man/woman and woman. You still love each other, but she can't bear you as a woman, and you can't bear yourself as a man.
You do an extremely good job of conveying the raw emotion of the process, though. Big hugs for you :hugs: and a belief that there will be brighter days ahead! :)
- Amy
Thanks Amy.
I think I'll just put on my big girl panties and present as male for the next three days until she leaves for vacation. I'll have to find a phone booth to change in for my makeup apointment after I take her to the airport. That kinda sucks, but it'll be easier on her.
It will go painfully slow, I'm sure.
But it is 3 days, not 30.
Thank goodness
Well, my wife got back from vacation, and has been home for 3 days now. I've been presenting as female the whole time she's been back. (Presenting as male sometimes / female other times is too upsetting to her, and I can't hack being male the whole time.)
So we're sitting on the couch, and she tells me she can't take this anymore, and I need to leave - the sooner the better. I'd planned to leave in 1 month, but that's too long for her to take. I've got a couple of weeks, maybe.
Honestly, I'm not sure if she'll make it a couple of weeks. I may have to pack what I can, schedule a mover to come after I move out, and take the minimal stuff I need and move into my condo, sleeping on the floor until my furniture arrives a week later. Or maybe I just rent a u-haul, move out with my small stuff, leave my furniture here, and buy a desk, chair, sofa, TV and bed for my condo.
I'm quite sad it's come to this. The funny thing is, I don't know if she'd feel better, or worse if I totally melted down in front of her.
Anyway, not sure what else there'll be to say about this thread. I came out to my wife on April 6, and I should be out of here by Aug 3, if not sooner. What else is there really to say about it all?
I'm sorry Paula
This stuff gets real, and it hurts and it sucks.
you've gone through a lot in a short time
now you focus on making you life work as a woman.
I just finished reading your story from beginning to current. Sitting here with tears streaming down my face, I am in awe at your strength. I hope you find peace in your new life as Paula. Unless I'm mistaken you feel to blame in all this. I want you to understand you are not some villain. You my dear have acted with great honor.
I can never offer meaningful advice I fear. All I can do is offer my support, respect and love. If you ever need an ear, or a shoulder, pls feel free to message me or something.
Hug
Rita
I woke up at 8AM after going to bed at 5AM (stayed up packing). I was having a full panic attack. I had nightmares all night. I was pleasantly surprised that I could walk downstairs and get a xanax. Slept until 2PM. My wife doesn't understand why I didn't wake her and ask for help. I don't even know how to communicate with her anymore. I am not allowing myself to feel very much. That will come later.
@Arbon - thanks hon. Yep, time to focus on my changes, and yes, shit's gotten real here.
@Rita - thanks hon, I appreciate your support.
The process here is not that different from the passing of a sick relative or close friend. Intellectually we know what is coming, but when it actually happens, it takes us a bit by surprise. You know what needs to be done and the only thing left to do is just do it. Unfortunately that doesn't make it any easier.
I would hope that eventually all parties involved would have some closure around what the situation will be. Until that happens, I would guess it will feel like unfinished business.
Take Care.
Thanks flatlander. I had hoped for enough time to prepare things for her too, but that isn't going to happen. She still wants me to sleep in the same room as her. It is pretty confusing, because she also wants me out. I won't have much time to plan anything. Par for the course.
I know many here feel this is all my fault. Do I wish I'd figured this out at 20? Sure. Since I did not, I am , apparently a horrible and deceitful person. Once I did understand, I feel I've been honest, but judge for yourself from my thread.
I am not sure what I ever did, I was born into terrible suffering, and I have suffered my entire life. I think my lot is to suffer. It is unimaginable to me that it will ever end. Somehow, though, I must be to blame. Who else is there?
Dear Paula - This is the first time I have read any of this thread. This reads more like a journal than a site thread. It is moving. I am sorry for all the pain that is shared. I am amazed that so much has happened so quickly. I do not think there is much anyone can offer other than their best wishes for you and your loved ones. Best of luck in your journey.
What we have to understand is that society at large puts a lot of pressure on us to conform, "suck it up and be a man" and to NOT rock the boat. These points are drilled into most of us from the very beginning. The world demands this binary view of life and many of us just don't fit very well, if at all. Nonetheless, we usually try our best to force-fit ourselves into those expectations as (in many cases) we were raised to be "good little boys".
However, things have changed a bit in recent times. We're beginning to relax a bit about the binary notion of gender. Unfortunately this comes a bit late for "men of a certain age", but I hope younger ones won't have it so bad. For us, all we can do is the best we can.
I have been through what you just expressed. The only thing I can suggest which is working for me and mine, is to keep the lines of comm tunication open. Don't overdue the talking about your needs, however, as that will become an issue for her. Talk to her about your needs as you feel you need to get things off your chest, but again, do this with some 'space' in between. Definitely continue to reasure your wife that you are still the man she married. Go out of your way to do chores, and all the things you have done before. Also, make sure you continue to tell your wife how much you love her, and how much she is the number one person in your life.
Put her needs ahead of your own. Be sensitive to her wishes but do talk openly and reach compromises about things which you feel are important to you.
While you need to be true to yourself, you also need to be understanding about the emotions and sensitivities your wife is now feeling due to the shocking new news you have just delivered to her.
Again, open and honest communications are the key to your future with your wife and to your future success and understanding with one another. Good luck!
Di
I guess you came to the thread late...
I am unable to communicate with her about anything of substance. She wants me to leave, NOW, I make preparations for that to happen, and it upsets her because she needs me to leave, but doesn't want me to leave. She tells me to leave, and then is suprised that I don't ask her for help when I'm having a panic attack. She is simply reacting. Her reactions seem almost completely random and unpredictable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diversity
I'm just not though - that is the problem for her.Quote:
Definitely continue to reasure your wife that you are still the man she married. Go out of your way to do chores, and all the things you have done before. Also, make sure you continue to tell your wife how much you love her, and how much she is the number one person in your life.
I've tried this. It failed.Quote:
Put her needs ahead of your own. Be sensitive to her wishes but do talk openly and reach compromises about things which you feel are important to you.
While you need to be true to yourself, you also need to be understanding about the emotions and sensitivities your wife is now feeling due to the shocking new news you have just delivered to her.
My wife and I are done. We'll be divorced in a couple of months. It took ~100 days from coming out to being told "get out now." She wants open and honest communication to see me in pain. Somehow, it matters to her that I'm miserable.Quote:
Again, open and honest communications are the key to your future with your wife and to your future success and understanding with one another. Good luck!
Di
I will spend the rest of my time here, until I move as close to being emotionless as I can be. It's easier on me anyway.
I'm moving 180 miles away, into a condo my uncle used to own. It will be 120 days from coming out to leaving home, almost certainly forever. I told my wife on the first Sunday of April, and by the first Sunday in august, I'm literally out.
I guess this is a good place to stop this narrative. It's pretty awful between me and my wife. I don't really expect it to improve, not anytime soon, possibly not ever.
There are plenty of folks here who tell me this is all my fault somehow. I dunno, I guess you can be the judge of that.
But I'm Paula, I told the truth, and this is my story. Thanks for reading it.
Well, you have certainly come a long way. YOUR Intro VVV
************************************************** *****************************
Hi. I am a liar
I'm not really sure where this is all going, to be honest. I've lied to the few people who've happened on to this little fact about me, most especially myself. (Really only a couple of people have ever known.)
I don't seem to be able to lie to myself about this so much anymore - part of me really likes dressing up. What started out as trying on some panties or stockings has escalated, to the point where a week or so ago, I realized "I need breasts." Not really "gee, this stuff I'm kinda playing around with would be more fun and a better fantasy if I had some boobs." No, just the simple, rather clear thought "I need breasts." (I'll ask advice on this in another thread.)
I'm concerned that I've lied to my wife about this, but I'm not so sure I should tell her either. We've been together a long time. I think it probable that she'd take this as a betrayal - that I'd deceived her. (Most of the time I'd been deceiving myself, too.) I also am not sure it's fair - after 20 years, I think it'd be fair to argue that this changes the deal, significantly.
I do appreciate this forum, though - there seems to be a lot of good advice here, and many people who relate feelings similar to ones I've felt, at least when I'm honest enough to admit it. The profile pictures are encouraging too - you are all so lovely - I can't imagine looking so good, although part of me surely wants to. (Another part of me hates THAT part of me - if I'm to be completely honest.)
I am sorry for the melodrama there, for what should properly be just a light a fluffy "hello!" So "hello!" and thank you so much for allowing me here!
************************************************** *********************************
Even though your story is only from your POV, it is very well documented step by step, and MAY serve as a cautionary tale against the "You MUST spill the beans" crowd. Everyone's situation is different.
IF and when you transition, I hope you stick around and continue to share your story.
Conversely, if you don't, I hope you would also find the courage to share that also.
Must there always be blame?Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
@Wild - thanks for quoting my intro post. That brought this all full circle very nicely. Yes, I no longer believe I'm a liar. I've tried to be as honest as humanly possible here. I know other prominent forum posters disagree with that. I doubt they'll change their minds about that, and I'm tired of arguing with them, so my story will just have to stand as it is. Wasn't a very typical intro post, was it?
@Ellen - I don't blame myself anymore. I don't blame anybody. I've been told by many here that I should take responsibility for my "choices." Why anyone would choose to be a woman trapped in a man's body, I dunno. Apparently though my wife gets a pass to be as hostile as she wants - the forum heavyweights tell me it's my fault because I should've been honest with her when we married. (I hadn't dressed in years, and I didn't understand myself what was going on with me. I was in full-scale denial.) But whatever. I guess people can read my story and judge for themselves.
There are some events that occur in life that really put us to the test. And, sometimes that's just what it feels like: a test. Often we don't see it coming, but even if we do, it is still a shock to deal with.
However, when we are confronted with these very difficult situations, we do have the choice to try to deal with them or fold the tent and move on. Those are the only choices that we are really given. PQ, the fact that you chose to move forward in spite of how difficult things got speaks volumes about how important all this was to you. Granted, there have been sacrifices along the way and perhaps more await. We just don't know. But, that's the nature of Life. We just don't know until we get there.
I don't believe for a moment that this is your fault. We can't predict how things are going to sit for us 5 or 10 years down the road. The human mind is an extraordinary device, but it can definitely hide things from our consciousness. Yes, if we knew we may have done things differently, but how would be know?
Anyway, Good Luck to you and keep moving forward.
Hi Paula, Your story just makes me feel lucky that mine is a DA/DT for the last twenty years my wife just tolerates it
but doesn't want to see me dressed .
She once said that she just wanted it all to go away ,
I said the only way it would go away is if I take it with me when I leave we are both too old for that, just six months short of our 50th anniversary .
Paula, I wish you all the best in your future travels may you find the happiness that you so deserve .
You will always have your friends here >Orchid
ps: Maybe it is all for the best.
I'm taking a break from packing (I leave sunday), and I'm just incredibly sad.
I asked my wife if she'd like me to present as male one last time before I go, so I could spend the evening with her. She said "Yes, I didn't know how to ask you for that." So I changed, and we watched TV together for the evening. (She is going to a friend's to spend the night after work tomorrow - she can't bear to watch me leave.)
At the end of the movie we watched, she pointed out that this was the end of our 20 year long relationship. We both started crying - we both agreed that it had been a good 20 years, and that she doesn't regret it, even though it's incredibly painful now, to separate and divorce. Neither one of us wants to part, but she can't bear me as a woman. She just can't. Hopefully with some separation and time to heal up, we'll be able to at least be friends. We both cried a lot during this conversation.
She told me she feels that she's failing me. I just told her that "we are who we are hon, it's no one's fault," and "I don't want this - I would never have chosen what I'm going through."
I'm crying now, as I write this. What a terrible situation. What'd we do to deserve this?
Out of all the storms we've weathered as a couple over 20 years, this one ended our relationship in 4 months, almost to the day.
Paula, let no one say you didn't try your best. Least of all me!
But sometimes we face a no-win scenario, which is a test of our character. You've held up under that test pretty well, all things considered.
Be comforted in knowing that, when one door closes, another opens. Time to concentrate on Paula for awhile, and see what develops. :hugs:
- Amy
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
This is so sad, I really feel for both of you.
However, things like this (and much worse) happen. We have to face it. At least in your case the split is amicable.
Hugs ...
Thanks, but last night was the first night in 2 weeks she hasn't been just horrible to me. And at notime did she say "just stay longer." She's still throwing me out with 2 weeks notice too. I think when she realizes that her life is going to change, and that what the law stipulates for divorce is substantially less than what I offered, and that my prior offer is off the table, a full freak out will ensue. (I can only take so much, and she threw my offer back in my face, shouted obscenities, and is still kicking me out.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy Smith
We did say goodbye this morning, that was sad, but nice too.
I have nothing to say but need to say something. In the short time I have been here and followed your thread I hoped against hope. I believe you acted with all honor and I am so sorry for what you must be feeling. For what it's worth I have deep respect for you and how you have handled this.
I strongly urge you to get a good lawyer and quickly. IMHO you have bent over backwards to try and make this work or be easier. I am glad you are not necessarily going into the divorce proceedings that way as well. You have to protect your future as much as you can.
HUG
Rita
Sometimes we can choose the Path that we take. Other times, the Path chooses us, but there is no Why to it.
In a way, it is good that the separation is painful. If it were not, what would that say about the significance of the last 20 years?
Relationships do come and go. It is the nature of things. But, it is good to recognize their passing and mourn them. And, as the period of mourning is past, we continue living our lives as best we can. That is all we can do.
I really feel for you Paula. Hopefully you both can still be friends.
Hi Paula. Sad way to end, feeling for you..