still "my guy" underneath. Is it really?

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10-12-2009, 10:22 AM
arbon

still "my guy" underneath. Is it really?

I saw this question in another thread but did not want to derail that thread into another topic, so thought I would try responding to it in a new thread.

Quote:

I have a question for the Cders here. This is something that continues to confuse me. Im a GG and very new to this whole thing. I have heard many cders (mine included) that that whether they are dressed en-femme or drab that its still "my guy" underneath. Is it really? Because what everyone is say here is that its NOT just the clothes. That when you put them on you want to feel, act and be treated like a woman. So if thats the case then how can my SO still be "my guy" when dressed? Is this just an answer to get us to accept? Do tell.

There are a lot of differences among cross-dressers so it is important to understand that I am speaking to this question from the relationship I have with my wife

- am I still her guy underneath? The answer is "no".

I never really have been the guy she thinks she knows, either. It does not matter how I am dressed.

I've never told her I am the same person wether I am dressed or not. But that has been a belief that she has clung onto, of her own making. I let her have this belief because it seems to help her in tolerating me, and I want to be tolerated at least.

I really have disliked this belief she has, because it does not accept the complete / whole me.

She has her "man". She tolerates some of my behavior (which she sets aside into a defect of character box), and still believes that somehow I will one day pull out of it, and be the manly man she thinks I am or should be.

It is an incomplete, not entirely honest, fractured relationship driven on by both of us (me, ofcourse, being the most dishonest).

It is not just about the cloths for me. But thinking it is is easier for her.

It would be interesting to hear what others think.
10-12-2009, 10:38 AM
Rebecca Jayne

You evolve

Throughout you life you have and always will change
I believe change is constant,
That being said my state of crossdressing has evolved.
It has been sexually oriented early on , now it is not.
I have tried to be effeminate, now I don't.
I used to be into fetishes with it, no more, that I grew tired of.
I used to only by costumes , now they are Woman's outfits.

but underneath it all I feel that I am still very much a man
though different than I was 10, 20, 30 however many years ago,
and I will always be a man first, I just like to wear woman's clothing.

Nothing like wearing a dress while you use power tools.
10-12-2009, 10:54 AM
Tina B.

Yes I am the same guy no matter how I am dressed, if I have on a dress, I am content and relaxed, If I am in drab, I am thinking about being in a dress and content and relaxed. the look might be different, but the feelings inside are all the same!
Tina
10-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Karren H

No... I'm the same "Person" she married.... Being caught between two genders I can't really say I'm "the guy" or not... I haven't figured that out and really don't plan to any time soon...
10-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Ashley_in_Texas

I am the same man, in a skirt and heels, or cargo pants and work boots. I have the same feelings, needs, and desires, no matter what I am wearing. I have one personality, but with many facets. Dressing doesn't affect my manhood, if anything, it keeps me in tune with it. I don't put on a persona while dressed, because I am me, dressed, drab, or naked. There is only enough room in my head for one person.
10-12-2009, 11:49 AM
Sally2005

Same person is a good way to describe it. I am the same guy when dressed that way and I don't change when CDing, however, I do feel what I think woman feel. People look at you differently, you need to act a certain way to have a hope of passing, it is like acting sometimes because you are aware of your body, movements, how you look etc. It is exciting and scary also.

I would say...same guy, but he went on mini vacation.
10-12-2009, 11:57 AM
Amy Lynn3

Same guy dressed either way. Act different ? Yes, because I'm wearing a dress. It comes with the territory if you dress as a woman.
10-12-2009, 11:59 AM
Kate Simmons

It really depends on the individual "guy" and his overall perception of himself.:)
10-12-2009, 12:21 PM
Rachel32533

I am the same person no matter what I am wearing! Am I not the same person if I am in a suit, jeans bathing suit or naked? Yes, I act defferently depending on the place and how I am dress!
10-12-2009, 12:23 PM
nodaybuttoday

This is just something I am truly trying to grasp and understand as a FAB. I feel like my attitude, my personality, everything I TRULY am is not really feminine or female in a particular way. So why should a CDer's personality or who is really is change when he dresses? And if he acts differently when not dressed as a woman, which side is the REAL him? I feel like sometimes this is a real "Jekyll and Hyde" situation. Not to say one side is evil and the other is not, but it really seems like there are two different people sometimes.

If that is the case, isn't it unfair to the GG that she doesn't know the real person? Sure, maybe she doesn't want to know, maybe she is hoping it'll go away, but that is simply because she doesn't know any better. She can't change who she is anymore than you can and she needs to be put straight and corrected. Does that make sense?
10-12-2009, 12:25 PM
Christina Horton

Think of it this way . You have had the girl inside , she has been there all your life , she has controlled your life form afar inside , your male side may have been the one you show to the world , But she was always there helping you along. She is the power behind your male macho side. Now your letting her see the sun , she is blossoming , and you can now express her more fully.
So are you the same "guy" as your were before. Yes and no. You are the same person , just part of you has been (repressed) all or most of your life. Now she has come to help you understand who you truly are. So yes you are the same person just now your more. More open with your feelings , more open with your "shopping" more open with your emotions. E.T.C....

I am not sure if I have answered you question but I tried.
10-12-2009, 12:27 PM
madison lee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley_in_Texas

I am the same man, in a skirt and heels, or cargo pants and work boots. I have the same feelings, needs, and desires, no matter what I am wearing. I have one personality, but with many facets. Dressing doesn't affect my manhood, if anything, it keeps me in tune with it. I don't put on a persona while dressed, because I am me, dressed, drab, or naked. There is only enough room in my head for one person.

I totally agree. I am the same person no matter what I am wearing. My wife agrees. She has said that she see's no change in my personality or over all self whether dressed or in drab.
10-12-2009, 12:46 PM
Christina Horton

Hay hun I just read your first thread and thought you might want to read my threads I made . I have come to except my dressing and since I can't PM you I figured I would tell you here. Some of my threads are about my times out , they might help you except your CDing and maybe what to do with you wife. Feel free to read all you like. Other girls here that are married have wrote about there experiences and that would help you out too. Good luck Girl friend.
10-12-2009, 12:56 PM
suchacutie

as usual, I seem to be the odd person in this thread

Ok, I grant that the "Tina" part of me was at least partially inside of the composite person who is me. When we were all mixed together, the "me" married and lived happily married as "me" for 32 years. At that point my wife and I discovered Tina. My wife is very intestested in the differences/similarities in growing up, being socialized, and becoming part of a gender. For four+ years now that Tina has existed we have talked about this issue from an incredible number of angles.

From the beginning Tina has been separate: separate name, separate clothes, separate makeup (of course), and even a separate e-mail address. Tina is a girlfriend, not a husband. That fact alone changes the dynamics, and we have worked toward trying to teach Tina how to be a girlfriend! It doesn't just happen automatically. Tina has developed likes and dislikes that are very different from the male part of "me", and, most importantly, likes and dislikes that were never part of the combined "me". Tina continues to evolve into a person with characteristics that the combined "me" never had, or even considered. My wife suggested I (in drab) read a certain book the other day, but then we looked at each other and simultaneously said, "no, that's one for Tina".

Please understand, we think this is terrific! We aren't complaining or concerned or unhappy. The male me is now informed in ways he never thought possible, and the feminine side does nothing but help that. Heck, even the shared body has lost 35 pounds! LOL

So, even though the "he" and "she" in me share a knowledge base, what we do with that knowledge base is very different, we like it that way, and it is nothing short of fascinating to see how Tina grows, evolves, and becomes feminine in her own right. And, the "he" still exists, just not when "she" is around :).

Tina

P.S. I'm still not sure that I explain this situation well. It's so very hard to put into words, and I'm sure it would be impossible to experiance without a loving wife who is also very interested in the psychology and emotions that help to define Tina.
10-12-2009, 01:12 PM
jweanie1

I too am trying to figure this all out. I have been out with my fiance' cder to a tri-ess meetining and then out to a club. I think my question comes from not knowing how I am supposed to act or treat him while he is en-femme. Do I treat him as I always do when we go out while his is in drab or do I have to act differently? Am I insulting him by treating him as I normally would? Thanks for your reply.

Jean
10-12-2009, 01:43 PM
tinalynn

Take this FWIW because I've never been out with my wife. However, if we ever do I would really hope that she would treat me like a girlfriend. Why? Because it's scary enough just wondering if you'll be noticed! Having my wife be my wife might make that more difficult (holding my arm, looking at me intently - like she does). Just be a friend, leave the bf-gf thing for other times. That's my thought on it, anyway...

Do I change personalities? I didn't think so. I do sit more ladylike, walk with smaller steps, etc. But wifey says I become more thoughtful and courteous.
10-12-2009, 02:07 PM
Bethany38

[SIZE=4]Wow!!! Ashley In Texas really hit it on the head for me. I could not have described about how I feel on the whole thing better my self. I think Christina makes a good case also. [/SIZE]
10-12-2009, 02:26 PM
Fraye

I don't think one can even begin to define if the "you" in a dress is a different person then the "you" in boy clothes when they are actively lying to their loved ones about who they are no matter what clothes they're wearing.
10-12-2009, 02:33 PM
angpai30

Yes, I am still the same "person" whether in a dress or jeans and boots because I don't change personalaties I change what I am wearing that's it. I have never thought of myself as two different people because that is rediculous to think so, but in the event that a dress and makeup is put on we are concious about what people think and try to act different in the sense of appearance. Think about halloween and what happens at the time when we all put on our costumes. Those who wear bunny costumes feel like little bunnies and those who put on maid costumes feel like maids and feel that they need to present as such, but really would act the same if they did not feel the need to act differently. I am mostly talking about myself because this is me and how I act because I do not feel the need to act differently; I feel the need to be me and act accordingly to be myself, especially, when dressed!! I hoped I helped a little.

Hannah~~
10-12-2009, 02:55 PM
jweanie1

Thanks, Hannahgirl.......that really did help. Not sure why your answer was any better than the rest but I really like what you said
10-12-2009, 03:06 PM
Toni_Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbon

Because what everyone is say here is that its NOT just the clothes. That when you put them on you want to feel, act and be treated like a woman.

This quote struck me. I will get to why in a minute.

I can and will say that as far as my relationship with my wife :love: is such that I am always have been her guy no matter how I am dressed, and she considers me to be so. In general, I act exactly the same when dressed en femme as when en homme. That said, when in boy mode, I am far from being the typical guy -- don't drink beer, hate sports, don't hang out with the guys etc etc down the list of stereotypical guy things. At the other end though, when in girl mode, I don't suddenly start doing needle-point, or sewing, or speak differently or carry myself differently etc etc down the list of stereotypical guy things. The point is, I am just me, what you see is me, I yam what yam and that's all that I yam.

For me, wearing girls clothes is something I just like to do. I prefer them over guys clothes, just as some guys may prefer a shirt and tie and suit over business casual for work. I prefer to be natural about it which is why I have long hair, for to wear a wig would be phony to me -- a denial of the me that I am. I prefer not to wear breast forms or go to rather huge sizes, you now -- the double - D's -- but rather go with (and thank God for) the bit of gynecomastia and left overs from a weight problem that make me nearly-A. I wish I could go with makeup, but sadly the whiskers are a curse.

Strangely enough, my time in boy-mode when wearing a (proper men's) kilt have helped me to further get in touch with all of this. In fact, it in someways (shock horrors!), it feels just as good as dressing as a girl. Well, in different way. Point is, I feel the same when kilted as when in a skirt.

So it is the clothes -- cause I like 'em. Its not just the clothes though but not because I want to be treated differently than when I'm in boy mode. I really don't want to feel, act and be treated like a woman. I want to feel, act and be treated like me - the cool unique person that I am. And my wife does that for me, no matter how I'm dressed. She sees the person inside. She sees the guy she married and girl within and if that girl is wearing a suit and tie or the guy is wearing a girl - so what!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn
10-12-2009, 03:29 PM
DemonicDaughter

[SIZE="3"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinalynn

Take this FWIW because I've never been out with my wife. However, if we ever do I would really hope that she would treat me like a girlfriend. Why? Because it's scary enough just wondering if you'll be noticed! Having my wife be my wife might make that more difficult (holding my arm, looking at me intently - like she does). Just be a friend, leave the bf-gf thing for other times. That's my thought on it, anyway...

Do I change personalities? I didn't think so. I do sit more ladylike, walk with smaller steps, etc. But wifey says I become more thoughtful and courteous.

Do you realize you are asking your partner to deny your relationship, her affection for you and your bond while in public? Albeit she may wish to anyhow for many heterosexual women don't particularly want to be perceived as a lesbian despite many CDers fantasies of it.

But the real irony of it all is here I am fighting for the right to show public affection to the woman I love without being harassed, to marry her legally and not have to worry about the state deciding whether or not I actually HAVE a relationship at all. And there you are, in a heterosexual relationship asking your partner to hide it in fear someone will read you.

Standing up for who you are, whether you pass, whether you are gay, whether you are in dress or whatever the circumstances is what helps earn your rights as a person and helps establish and/or keep those rights for others. The only time it seems people are nervous to stand out is when they are embarrassed of who they are. Don't be and certainly don't make your wife feel you are. Let her be proud to walk beside you! [/SIZE]
10-12-2009, 04:42 PM
Teri Jean

I am the same person as before but different. Let me explain it this way. When a diamond or many gems are found in the ground they are recognizable but until the jeweler applies his or her talents it still looks the same. But the moment they take the mallet and chisel to the stone the beauty is exposed for the person or world to see. For me it took 60 yrs of lieing in the "ground" before the jeweler exposed the eauty I knew I had all along. Does that help?

Teri
10-12-2009, 05:38 PM
carhill2mn

I think that it is easy to see from all of the different responses provided that this is another "one size does not fit all" situation.
Early in my CD "life" I probably was the "same guy". I was more interested in the clothes, etc. than in "expressing my femininity". Later in life I began to want/need to do more than just put on women's clothes.
As I have progressed in my CD life and now "dress" completely, I do act differently when presenting as Carole. I try to assimilate the manners, actions, etc. that I believe to be in keeping with trying to be a "lady". I am more patient, I listen more closely, I try to be more aware of the people around me, I try to be more understanding, less assertive, more polite. I smile more.
10-12-2009, 05:57 PM
sherri52

If you want your relationship to last you have to have honesty. For those in the closet from thier wifes that time will come. Your wife already knows you dress. As long as you aren't cheating on her the worst that she knows of is out. Be honest in you feelings and the relationship will either grow or die ( based on how you feel ). If you wait it will be harder to remain friends.
10-12-2009, 06:51 PM
Carly D.

The closest I come is girlish.. at the my highest I would say I was over fifty percent girlish.. but more now that I am moving away from being able to dress very often, I am so much less girlish that I feel like I am just a guy who likes to wear womens clothes without the need to dress full to that end of the spectrum.. to each their own as far as what they feel and look.. or look to achieve that feeling of being.. is that a tuna or herring.. anyway it all reads the same from here.. a nods as good as a wink to a bat..
10-12-2009, 07:38 PM
tinalynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

[SIZE="3"]

Do you realize you are asking your partner to deny your relationship, her affection for you and your bond while in public?[/SIZE]

Sorry you feel that way, I didn't mean to offend. I was merely replying to the OP about how I feel when dressed and what I would prefer. How my wife and I show affection towards each other is our business, not yours, not the states. I agree with your fight to legalize and hope the best for you.
10-12-2009, 10:07 PM
DemonicDaughter

[SIZE="3"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinalynn

Sorry you feel that way, I didn't mean to offend. I was merely replying to the OP about how I feel when dressed and what I would prefer. How my wife and I show affection towards each other is our business, not yours, not the states. I agree with your fight to legalize and hope the best for you.

I didn't take it as any offense in the least. I don't think its anybody's business who shows affection to whom as long as its all consensual. I merely think its sad that anyone would have to deny their relationship because of how they identify.[/SIZE]
10-12-2009, 10:48 PM
sissystephanie

My Tag line says it very plainly!! I was born a Man, and unless there is some serious surgery involved sometime, I will die a man! That surgery is not, and will not be, planned! I wear feminine clothes because I enjoy doing so, not because of any desire to be a woman!

Clothes do not a man or woman make! We are what we are! My late wife knew what I was underneath everything, and was happy about that!!
10-12-2009, 11:04 PM
Joann0830

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley_in_Texas

I am the same man, in a skirt and heels, or cargo pants and work boots. I have the same feelings, needs, and desires, no matter what I am wearing. I have one personality, but with many facets. Dressing doesn't affect my manhood, if anything, it keeps me in tune with it. I don't put on a persona while dressed, because I am me, dressed, drab, or naked. There is only enough room in my head for one person.

I have to agree with Ashley as I would have responded the same way, The clothes dont change who I am, I have the same feelings, needs, and desires, no matter what I am wearing, I have been like this since I was 6 or 7 and have a life and enjoy it and still enjoying it. To make it short If I have to say that I am different because of what I wear, then should I question when a woman wears mens jeans and mens work boots, and young girls and woman who wear mens boxers, or when they wear their Fathers or their husbands or boyfriends Dress white shirts are they also crossdressers. Joann0830:battingeyelashes::heehee::love:
10-13-2009, 03:38 AM
ReineD

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbon

I never really have been the guy she thinks she knows, either. It does not matter how I am dressed.
...
But that has been a belief that she has clung onto, of her own making.
...
I really have disliked this belief she has, because it does not accept the complete / whole me.
...
It is not just about the cloths for me. But thinking it is is easier for her.

Wow. I understand what you are saying. You are not the guy your wife takes you to be and this must be frustrating. You know who you are since you've been living inside your skin all your life, but your wife has only two reference points: male or female. See my response below to NDBT ... maybe in the not too distant future, it will be easier for TGs to be able to tell their prospective wives that they feel uncomfortable always being in the male gender role. Then the GGs can decide if this is what they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodaybuttoday

If that is the case, isn't it unfair to the GG that she doesn't know the real person? She can't change who she is anymore than you can and she needs to be put straight and corrected. Does that make sense?

Yes it does make sense. :) Hopefully the more forums we have like this one, the more TGs will get to know themselves early. They will be able to share this with prospective partners (not just about wearing the clothes, but more importantly how they see their gender roles). And again hopefully as the result of having more openness all around with TGs coming out of their closets, there will be more realistic expectations and there will be more and more GGs who will not expect TGs to behave according to an image they have of what a man should be.

Or, maybe there will be just as many GGs who cannot be in relationships with effeminate GMs, but at least they will know in the beginning and they will have the option to move on.

But keep in mind, NDBT that every TG is at a different place along the continuum and your partner's image of himself as a male may match yours! :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jweanie1

Do I treat him as I always do when we go out while his is in drab or do I have to act differently? Am I insulting him by treating him as I normally would? Thanks for your reply.

I would treat him exactly the same as it pertains to the things you talk about, the way you joke around, the decisions you make together, showing affection, the way you relate to one another privately, etc. The only difference I can think of would be to call him by his femme name if he has one. Although he might not expect you to open doors for him at all, it might be nice if you would once in awhile. Also he will likely appreciate compliments about his look much more so than in guy mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

[SIZE="3"]
Standing up for who you are, whether you pass, whether you are gay, whether you are in dress or whatever the circumstances is what helps earn your rights as a person and helps establish and/or keep those rights for others.[/SIZE]

I agree DD it would be ideal if everyone could do this fully as you describe, but not everyone is at the same point. Standing up for one CD may simply be to garner enough courage to tell her wife. For another, it may be gaining enough confidence to go out to a TG support group for the first time. For someone else it may be going out in the mainstream and not saying a word to eventually be able to speak to lots of people, thus losing their fear of being 'found out' and letting them know they are TG. Still, this is one on one and somewhat safe.

But to hold hands with a GG in public will gather lots of attention. And it is likely the GG will not want to do this either, at least not in the beginning of the relationship. It may take years for them to be able to get to that point.

If each person can pledge to stretch themselves according to where they're at, they are doing their part IMO but lots of baby steps must be taken before being completely free and out to everyone (if that is the goal). Some CDs assess their co-workers, families, some friends, etc and determine it would be difficult for them to live with one day being femme and another day in guy mode.

I do agree TSs have an advantage there though. Living with 24/7 certainly makes it easier to stand up and be counted. Still, some TSs have lost a great many relationships and it is very lonely and painful.
10-13-2009, 05:15 AM
Satrana

Well the guy side of a CD does remain unchanged, the issue is that the guy side was only ever half of the personality and has maybe been artificially skewed somewhat to fit in with gender expectations. Elements of the femme side do leak through into the guy mode, but not in sufficient amounts that it becomes obvious what is going on.

The CD is at pains to keep the two sides of his personality separate from each other. It is like holding apart two parts of a magnet. There is a natural force that wants the two parts to join together but the resulting whole is deemed unacceptable by society. Because of the constant exertion to keep the two parts separate, CDs become overly focused and sensitive to the different gender roles and make a big fuss over it.

The guy is still there but most CDs, when dressed, the guy side is placed on the back burner and the femme side comes out to play often in an exaggerated fun-loving manner. Obviously from the outside it can appear that the CD has changed into someone else but it really is the same personality which has been artificially split apart into two camps in order to fit in with societal expectations.

This is not a healthy or wise thing to do. I believe CDs should stop fighting the natural desire to fuse together back into a whole person at least in private environments.

For SOs the big problem after dealing with the shock and unsettling feelings of abnormality, is to understand the duality their partner has had to cultivate to fit in and not to allow their traditional gender conditioning to cloud their perceptions of their "man".
10-13-2009, 09:47 AM
JiveTurkeyOnRye

Quote:

Originally Posted by arbon

I really have disliked this belief she has, because it does not accept the complete / whole me.

I've seen this sentiment in a few different posts lately, like the one where the OP was concerned that his wife wasn't using his girl name when he was dressed, and did that mean she didn't accept him.

I wonder if in some way, some of us are almost happier feeling like we aren't accepted, or at the very least, are so used to feeling like we're going to be shunned or unaccepted that we'd prefer to think we are when we aren't. So even when someone is actually being very supportive, we just assume they're not really.
10-13-2009, 11:43 AM
DemonicDaughter

[SIZE="3"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReineD

I agree DD it would be ideal if everyone could do this fully as you describe, but not everyone is at the same point. Standing up for one CD may simply be to garner enough courage to tell her wife. For another, it may be gaining enough confidence to go out to a TG support group for the first time. For someone else it may be going out in the mainstream and not saying a word to eventually be able to speak to lots of people, thus losing their fear of being 'found out' and letting them know they are TG. Still, this is one on one and somewhat safe.

What "point" do they need to be at to stand up for themselves?

Standing up for yourself, doesn't mean you have to stand up as a CDer. Merely as a human being or as a partner. The point of that particular statement isn't in regards to CDing specifically. It means that if you believe in what you are doing, you shouldn't be ashamed or embarrassed by it. That stands for far more than CDing, I was attempting to encourage someone to be proud of whom they are and to see CDing as only a facet to that.

You don't have to march on Washington to make a statement.

I'm not making some big political statement here and telling everyone they have to shout it from the roof tops. As a matter of fact, I'm saying NOT to! I don't think you have to make ANY fuss about it, just don't back down from what you believe in. And don't be so scared to be who you are that you push your loved ones away.

Just having the courage to be yourself is a statement. Just allowing your partner to decide FOR HERSELF if she wants to be there and hold your hand. To just stop living in fear and learning to accept yourself. You don't even have to leave the house, but you also don't have to fear yourself.

I'm well aware the levels involved in telling people about gender identity. I don't think encouraging people to have confidence should always be met with opposition in explaining not everyone can be that way. I don't think it needs to constantly be followed by a disclosure about everyone's abilities to do so. I think people are going to take baby steps either way unless they feel differently. So I didn't think to add that to my post.

Quote:

But to hold hands with a GG in public will gather lots of attention. And it is likely the GG will not want to do this either, at least not in the beginning of the relationship. It may take years for them to be able to get to that point.

I had already stated that a GG may not want that kind of attention to begin with in my first post in this thread.

I also believe it should be left of to HER to decide.

Quote:

I do agree TSs have an advantage there though. Living with 24/7 certainly makes it easier to stand up and be counted. Still, some TSs have lost a great many relationships and it is very lonely and painful.

I don't think TS have it any easier. A CDer can take off the clothes and go back to boy mode. Many TS cannot once they have started establishing a life as a full time woman. They cannot just tell their friends and family, "oh... I changed my mind again, I am going back to being male." I don't think any one group has it easier or harder than the other. Just different.[/SIZE]
10-13-2009, 01:12 PM
KayC

I want to make the point that not everyone lives in the same sort of place. We need to remember that some are in the beginning of all this, still learning, processing, while some are further down the road. And some live in small communities, very conservative, and some are in large cities, more liberal, some are brave, some are scared, ...we aren't all dealt exactly the same situation. We all have to make the right choice for us at that time...knowing that it could change down the road.
10-13-2009, 04:17 PM
ReineD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satrana

It is like holding apart two parts of a magnet. There is a natural force that wants the two parts to join together but the resulting whole is deemed unacceptable by society. Because of the constant exertion to keep the two parts separate, CDs become overly focused and sensitive to the different gender roles and make a big fuss over it.

This is not a healthy or wise thing to do. I believe CDs should stop fighting the natural desire to fuse together back into a whole person at least in private environments.

Very well said!!! And to expand: in my statement above I suggested that TGs become open enough so that GGs meeting these TGs will in their hearts know that their potential partners do not fit within a previously defined traditional male gender role. I also suggested the GG could make up her mind early on whether she wants to move on from the relationship rather than insist on hanging on to her vision that her TG partner should behave according to her preconceived gender views.

Reading back I see that I did not express my point very well. It came off as saying that even with education, GGs are hard-wired to expect traditional gender role behaviors from their male partners and anything that is on a different plane is undesirable.

If the CDing or being transgendered is removed from the issue entirely, most couples over time fall into comfortable roles together where they balance their individual strengths and weaknesses. The husband might be the partner who has an affinity for gourmet cooking and his wife is thrilled to give him reign to the kitchen. Or to the husband's glee, the wife may be the one who is detail-minded and will take on the task of paying the bills and maintaining their financial records, or she may be the partner who loves to work with her hands and be the designated home-repair person. This happens all the time and it is not even questioned among couples. In how many marriages is it the husband who is the more sentimental of the two or the wife who prefers to play competitive sports?

But, when you put the transgender spin to it all then it seems as if gender roles are brought under the microscope and each partner's strengths and weaknesses are questioned to see where they may fall short of traditional expectations. I don't know why this happens. So in my point earlier I meant to suggest that couples beginning a relationship should move beyond taking about the degree of public or private femme expression which is comfortable to each of them, and more importantly they should also discuss their intended gender roles and expectations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

It means that if you believe in what you are doing, you shouldn't be ashamed or embarrassed by it. And don't be so scared to be who you are that you push your loved ones away.

I totally agree! :) And I know that you and I share similar views and some things are so obvious it seems unnecessary to say them. :chatterbox: The bit about being along different points of development and taking baby steps was not meant for you, but more for the newer members reading this thread. My writing was under your quote and I apologize if it came off as a lecture to you. :sad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicDaughter

I don't think TS have it any easier. A CDer can take off the clothes and go back to boy mode. Many TS cannot once they have started establishing a life as a full time woman. They cannot just tell their friends and family, "oh... I changed my mind again, I am going back to being male." I don't think any one group has it easier or harder than the other. Just different.

No, TSs don't have it any easier. In fact I think it is a lonelier, more difficult road. What I meant was that living 24/7 makes it impossible to hide the transness and there is no question that this person is out there showing the world who she is. 'Easier' was used in the context of not having to make a decision daily as to how much of the inner self to show to the world. The decision is made by default, by having made the decision to transition ... (even though the initial decision is of course not an easy one to make).
10-13-2009, 05:07 PM
tinalynn

Wow... A simple statement about what I would prefer should my wife and I ever go out dressed has been turned into me denying our relationship, pushing her away, and not letting her decide how to act. Nothing like pushing your own morals and value system on others, eh?

DD, good luck finding what you're looking for, but please disregard my posts from here out. I'll do the same with yours...
10-13-2009, 05:19 PM
DemonicDaughter

[SIZE="3"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinalynn

Wow... A simple statement about what I would prefer should my wife and I ever go out dressed has been turned into me denying our relationship, pushing her away, and not letting her decide how to act. Nothing like pushing your own morals and value system on others, eh?

DD, good luck finding what you're looking for, but please disregard my posts from here out. I'll do the same with yours...

My last few posts haven't been in regards to you or your views. They were specifically towards the person I was quoting. All I expressed was how it sounded from an outside source and how sad it is in this day and age that people have to hide specific factors of their lives. Everything else was pretty much a general statement not specifically aimed towards you.

In truth I was hoping to be far more encouraging by saying you should be proud of who and what you are and don't let it be so frightening about being read. The internet is great for losing the nuances needed for most things to be conveyed correctly.

Besides, if I really stated my views or were trying to shove them down anyone's throat, my posts would have been deleted by a mod by now. I no sooner believe you to take my advice than you would a stock tip from a homeless man.

Ah, well I try. So much for hoping people find their inner strength.[/SIZE]
10-13-2009, 05:39 PM
Joanne f

Cross dressing is a complicated subject as there are so many different variants so it is not an exact science, but if you make a rough scale say from the male side being most dominant and only CDing occasionally (then the my guy will still be there) now go to the other end when you are CDing 24/7 and the "my guy will not be there, so it would stand to reason that there is a middle point where things are neutral in which case nether will be dominant.
So all you have to do is to figure out where you are on that scale and that should tell you how much of "my guy is still there .

(i must point out that this is just my impression of things which is no doubt crap so don`t take it to serious) :devil:
10-14-2009, 05:17 AM
Satrana

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReineD

But, when you put the transgender spin to it all then it seems as if gender roles are brought under the microscope and each partner's strengths and weaknesses are questioned to see where they may fall short of traditional expectations. I don't know why this happens.

Yes this is a big bugbear for me. What wife would despair at her husband if he was to take on the lion's share of housework but if she discovers the reason why he is willing - ie he is a CD - then she gets angry and confused. Or how many wives would think it a big deal if she found out her husband had a fetish for stockings, but if his interest in stockings is because he is a CD then many will refuse to allow the behavior to continue.

As soon as the TG nature is introduced any and all variations away from the gender normative suddenly become major issues. And this is not because the SO is knowledgeable about the issues and pitfalls surrounding CDing, that wisdom comes later after the fact, rather it is the overwhelming negative stigma that changes the context of the behavior.

It seems the label crossdresser is interchangable with words like pervert, weirdo, deviant etc. Irrelevant quirks are instantly transformed into undesirable traits. People are overly ready to focus on the headline rather than take time to understand what it means and how much/little this changes their relationship and whether it will be better or worse off.

If I wear a kilt, the Scottish ladies think I am sexy. If I wear a tartan skirt then I am undesirable......? How would a woman know what I am feeling when I wear a kilt? Why is a skirt automatically considered so demeaning?

There is so much cultural baggage involved that common sense gets left behind.

Quote:

It came off as saying that even with education, GGs are hard-wired to expect traditional gender role behaviors from their male partners and anything that is on a different plane is undesirable.

I actually believe there is some truth to this point. Gender roles are so ingrained that no matter how much you intellectually understand the issues, deep down certain behaviors can still grind against entrenched ideas of normality. Some stains do not come out no matter how many times you wash. This is particularly true for men whose gender roles have not been publically explored and debated by a masculine movement so stereotypes remain intact.