I don't get this 'baby-steps' approach

As many of you know, I'm an accepting and supportive GG. When I found out about my SOs crossdressing - because he'd finally reached a point of self-acceptance - I read just about everything I could get my hands on. My SO and I have talked, read the same books, and have continued dialogue on transgenderism and our understanding of it.

Since then my SO has always been totally honest about his level of crossdressing. It's the total 100% presentation - including forms, wigs, make-up, lingerie, hosiery, clothes, gowns.... etc etc - or nothing. If I had been spoon-fed little bits at a time I think I would've worried 'Where's this going to end?' It's something I often see on the FAB section of this forum too. GGs suspect their SOs involvement in crossdressing is much deeper than they've admitted... so GGs think their CDing SOs must have something to hide - trust starts to diminish because there are still secrets.

Of course, I do think you should take things slowly and at your GGs pace when you do finally come out to her, but that's different to adding one thing at a time - first make-up, then stockings, then wig, then forms - and waiting for her acceptance of each thing before moving on.

What's wrong with saying "I'm a crossdresser. Here are some books I'd like you to read. You can get support, understanding, help whatever at whatever website. And you can ask me anything you like about any aspect of my crossdressing at any time."


No more 'baby-steps' please! Just honest open dialogue. :D

Thanks! Good perspective.

Sarah that's what should be done. I did when I told my wife 23 years ago, it was the only way I could.

I am so over the top on everything I do I think she was afraid I was going to have SRA, which I wouldn't, and not be the man she married, especially with the children who were quite young then.

Now we are the only ones home.
However, she wasn't receptive to it, so to this day she knows, and its under dressing only when she is around, yet this past year I have been wearing polish on all 20 quite openly (subtle shades) and BJ has even made some compliments, so who knows, maybe she's like a fine wine, more accepting with age.

I agree, that's how we did it. When my wife found out she first wanted to see everything. From there how much of it she saw me doing was the baby steps, up to the point where she saw me dress.

I think there are a number of reasons that some do this.

One is probably out of a misguided attempt to try and make things easier on their SO. Perhaps they are thinking that it is best to bring it out to them a little at a time? Personaly I'd much rather my wife saw me as the complete package rather than half dressed, or no makeup, etc. I hate the sight of me when I'm some where in the middle of getting ready and I wouldn't care to inflict that on my wife. lol
I think the other thing is that the CD may be working up their courage. It might be that a bit at a time is the only way they can get their courage up.

I agree with you. My wife and I were best freinds so she knew every thing before we got married. I think there is no one way to do it. Every one has to do it there way.Theres no wright or wrong except you should be honest to the so. I also bgeleave that applies to comeing out to your freinds and co workers to when yourt ready.

Well, what if the crossdresser uses baby steps? I mean, that's what happened to me. First was hose, then much later panties and bras, then a longer period later came dresses, and now finally wig and make-up. Over 20 years or so.

And I still can't tell where this might be going. Right now I'm certain I won't get any operations nor try to increase my breast size. This too may change in a few years.

I do know I have graduated out of the pure **** look I was so fond of before. Blending is my goal now.

Sarah GG,
It depends on the person! I am certain you know a lot of people that you can walk up to and say "That outfit just doesn't look right on you!" and they would take the comment for what it was, an opinion.
Then there are other people that you wouldn't tell them anything because it would upset them for 3-5 days before they will talk to you about it.
Each of us that are in a relationship knows where along that continuum their partner is. In most cases fear and guilt make us move a little more cautiously than we probably should when it comes to this topic. Along with the fact that some of our loved ones may not be as open minded as we had thought when it comes to crossdressing.
It took my wife quite some time to wrap her head around the fact that I have this 'hobby?' for lack of a better word that didn't threaten our relationship. However, if she goes out with me for a 'Girl's Night Out', there won't be an intimate contact until morning, once I am back to 'male mode' and she has slept. Then a new day means a new beginning and we celebrate it!
She explains it as not being into girls! I can respect that! I'm not into guys! So it makes sense to me! After sleeping and recharging, Lisa is put away and life goes on!
If I would have said, "I crossdress, here's a bunch of information." I'd still be single!
But by talking about things and allowing her to come to grips with things at her pace, we have remained together for over 33 years of marriage.
It just comes down to committment to your relationship and how hard you are willing to fight to keep it going. If you don't start every day new and fresh and let your loved one KNOW that you love them and accept them for who they are, how can you ever expect them to reciprocate and do the same for you?
Enough soap boxing....
Lisa Elizabeth

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Originally Posted by Shadeauxmarie

Well, what if the crossdresser uses baby steps? I mean, that's what happened to me. First was hose, then much later panties and bras, then a longer period later came dresses, and now finally wig and make-up. Over 20 years or so.

And I still can't tell where this might be going. Right now I'm certain I won't get any operations nor try to increase my breast size. This too may change in a few years.

I do know I have graduated out of the pure **** look I was so fond of before. Blending is my goal now.

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Well that's fine too! As long as you're honest about where you're at at this moment in time and can communicate it through open dialogue! If you honestly can't say where you are or where you'll end up on the spectrum, then why not just say that?

Of course things change as we learn and grow but I'm talking about being honest about where you're at now. It's no good pretending you only want to wear stockings and suspenders if really you'd like to go the full nine yards. If dialogue is kept open then you can grow in your understanding together.

A while ago I used to worry... what if my SO wants to transition. Well, from everything I've ever read, who can ever really say. At the moment my SO has no plans whatsoever to transition. I stopped worrying about it and have decided I'll cross that bridge when and if I come to it.

I'm not saying it's perfect :D but our relationship is organic and will adapt (or not) to different challenges along the way.

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Originally Posted by LisaElizabeth

But by talking about things and allowing her to come to grips with things at her pace, we have remained together for over 33 years of marriage.
It just comes down to committment to your relationship and how hard you are willing to fight to keep it going. If you don't start every day new and fresh and let your loved one KNOW that you love them and accept them for who they are, how can you ever expect them to reciprocate and do the same for you?
Enough soap boxing....
Lisa Elizabeth

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Exactly! :love:

I agree that baby steps are probably a totally worthless concept... Your SO is either going to totally accept your crossdressing or she isn't... Those that fall somewhere in between hope and pray that by doing baby steps it will push her towards the 100% acceptance side but how often does that really work? From what I've read usually there is a slight slide towards acceptance then a backlash towards total rejection.. In my humble opinion.

So if that's the case..... you might as well just get all dressed up and pop out of the closet. " SURPRISE". and see what she thinks... And get the inevatible over with.. Baby steps is just wasting everyones valuable time?? Also in my humble opinion

I'm a closet dresser. to the best of my knowledge it is a secret from every-one. It is that way because I lack the courage to bring it into the open and deal with the consequences.
That said; I am on a journey and I don't know where I will stop. I'm like ShaudeauxMarie, I started [this time] with a skirt and a top. Now I have a completeset of underthings and a number of skirts and tops. I would like to try make-up and wigs but I don't think I can successfully while this is a secret. As I reach each step I have no expectation of going further until the compulsion strikes and I try something new.
Honesty is admirable, but how do I accurately answer the crucial question; why does this end? And how can I ask some-one to live with that huge unknown. The side-effects of suppressing are more socially acceptable than the dressing itself.

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

So if that's the case..... you might as well just get all dressed up and pop out of the closet. " SURPRISE". and see what she think... And get the inevatible over with.. Baby steps is just wasting everyones valuable time?? Also in my humble opinion

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:devil: ha ha... I know you're only joking Karren! :D

Once you've had 'the' conversation, you should be sensitive towards your SOs sensibilities and sensitivities. So, don't overwhelm her (or yourself!) with the pink fog. Just please be honest about what you are. The majority of bad-feeling and non-acceptance stems from lies and withheld information (imho).

Lol. I'm also president of the Cheaters and Liers Club of America... So don't get me going on this honesty stuff!! :D

Hi Sarah...I hear you and your point is spot on....

In fact, I'm showing your note to one of my girlfriends that is married to a very accepting woman...however, my friend is much farther down the path than her wife knows, and claims that by letting her know things one step at a time, it gives them the best chance to make it...

in my mind that's just as dishonest as not telling her wife anything

I hope you guys can work things out

kate

If I'm going to get hit by a truck, I'd just as soon get hit and get it over with.

Being run over by the left side wheels, then waiting while the truck back ups for a "run over" with the right side wheels...

Forget it!

Just get it over with.

"Coming outs," badly done, are done piece-meal. It just prolongs the agony of doubt that much longer, or, longer still. Yet, those who focus on the fear and pain, think the hard part is just broaching the subject. That's not the hard part; that's the hard way... Doing the necessary homework is the hard part, waiting for a follow up pop quiz is another, remembering what you said and where you stand is yet another.

"Coming outs" well done are about figuring out who and what you are, getting well versed on all the information on the subject, and presenting the results of your research with a complete definition of you that you think properly fits your situation - leaving some room for "filling in the blanks" here and there.

I've found most people are more comfortable with a well informed person making a presentation presenting "the facts as they are generally understood" than they are someone who's both "spilling the beans" and asking for help cleaning up the mess.

"Waaahhh" stinks.

"What do you think about this?" is better.

trust ,love,honesty,if you have that you can cross anyriver together.......but lies of omission are still lies.........it would drive me crazy not to be able to share this side of me with her

I suppose there are as many perspectives as the day is long.

But I wonder if sometimes, the baby steps approach is because the person truly does not know who they are and where they want to go. It's not like a light switch where you click on the instant illumination. I will agree that sometimes people are afraid to confess what they have considered or their current intent but perhaps it's because the saga is more a continuing story.
:2c:

Thank you Sarah for you view/advice. It has certainly put things in a better perspective for my eventual "coming out".

I'm so glad GG's like you are members here.:love:

Yes i agree that there is a lot of sense in what you are saying but you have to remember that not all GGs are as accepting as you are so sometimes small steps are the easiest way for them to handle it .
It is just the way some couples like to do it , and there are many aspects of life that it can make sense to test the waters first before one jumps in .

And let's not forget those of us that from the very start tried to deny the entire existance of our CD/TG ism. I, for one, tried to shove the "feminine feelings" to the very bottom of my being because it wasn't part of being a macho image that I was raised around. So when I did finally start to accept it, way later in life, the way to acceptance for me was to stick my big toe in the water a little at a time. My wife just happened to be along for the whole experience so she got to see it a little at a time also. Now, if I had known then what I know now....... Not only would I have told her what to expect, but I would have put up a better fight for the BIG clothes closet! :doh:

Sarah, I love your posts about this. For me, I think I've done too many baby steps all throughout my life (not just in this issue but others), and I think it's mostly been in fear of being rejected. In other words, when have I gone too far for that person or group to accept me? Fear of rejection has had such a hold on me that I spoon out things one bit at a time. As I get older, though, I realize that time is running out. (Ok I not talking about dying next week, I'm just realizing that life is going by and the end could come sooner than I think. My ex was killed six months ago, so it's made me deeply contemplative about this. One never knows when the end will come.)

I think what you're saying might help me with my non-supportive wife (I hate to say it that way - she's so supportive in so many other ways in my life, but this one issue is extremely hard for her to handle.) I have wondered how come she's been so distrustful of me (I've made plenty of mistakes to earn that as well, but even when there's no reason to be suspicious the suspicions arise.) I think this is a huge chunk of the reason right in what you said. Thank you so very much!

Hugs,
Ann

I am one here who advocates taking it slowly. To me that means that once the CDer has come out to his SO, as fully as he believes himself to be at that time, he doesn't go wild and dress up fully every waking minute of the day. Or drag (pardon the pun) his SO down to the local bar while dressed. Or, taking the dressing into the bedroom when the SO is not ready.
At least not until the SO is willing and accepting of any of these situations.

I think the "Baby Steps" should be in what they want of US, not in what they TELL us. I think it's important they be honest and not leave us with the "what's next" feeling. I understand that they may not KNOW "what's next" but what they do know, they should share. By Baby Steps, I mean don't expect her to get sexual with you "dressed" (at least right away)...if that's your desire, give your SO plenty of time to catch up to you...remember, she's just found out and it's turned her world upsidedown, what you've know for years, she's getting all at once...the inclinations you have, she doesn't. It'll take her a while to sift through her feelings, learn, change her perceptions, etc. Also, don't ask to borrow her clothes, makeup, etc....if she offers, fine, if not, buy your own. Don't overdo the amount of time you are presenting dressed to her at first, still present in guy mode to her...that's what she thought she was getting and to do otherwise may make her feel betrayed...again, if your desire is to come out 24/7, give it time, compromises may be in order. Don't demand her participation, give her time and respond according to her feedback. If she asks to see you dressed, oblige her. If she offers to do your makeup (even if you think you can do better), let her participate...this is her way of trying to incorporate into your world. It's not the outcome that is as important as your relationship. Don't give ultimatums (IF it's between you and my CDing, it'll be my CDing)...no one wants to feel that UNspecial. Do encourage her to go to this site, get her ten posts in and apply to the FAB section, it'll be of immense help to her (and ultimately, you). Do let her know up front that there are many varied people here, not all the same, and not to apply everyone's situation to your own. Assure her of what you can (I'm not gay, I'm not leaving you, I'm not transitioning, I'll still be your guy). If you can NOT assure her of those things, it'd be good to let her know up front. However, it's just possible that given time, she might be able to adjust to some of those things as well...not everyone could but there are some that have. Let her know, as things sink in (give it a few weeks) that the two of you could have fun with it, plenty of couples have! Let her know the positive aspects and try to create balance with this within your relationship. Be considerate...don't overspend, spend undue time away from her, talk about other things as well, show interest in her and HER world too. Remember your marriage vows and don't flirt with others in guy OR girl mode...remember, you wouldn't like it if roles were reversed!

Well, for me, I've accepted myself and I am comfortable with who I am. I know I will go no further than a certain point. It took me many years to build up the confidence and I remember being somewhat shocked when I first found out people were using breast forms and tucking and all that stuff. In fact, there is even a social stigma against touching female underthings. So, baby steps to me, means, not dumping the whole package on her all at once because it might scare her enough to never want to hear any more about it. I'm mostly in agreement about letting her see the outside, but details about how its done (trade secrets?), I'm less convinced. I don't think adding little by little (underthings, hair...etc.) over time is a good idea because like others say, you don't know what's coming next, and it messes with her image of who you are.

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Originally Posted by Sarah_GG

1. "I'm a crossdresser. Here are some books I'd like you to read. You can get support, understanding, help whatever at whatever website. And you can ask me anything you like about any aspect of my crossdressing at any time."

2. Just honest open dialogue.

3. I'm not saying it's perfect :D but our relationship is organic and will adapt (or not) to different challenges along the way.


Exactly! :love:

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Brilliant![SIZE="2"][/SIZE]

Your take on this is well thought out, and very intoxicating. Wish your twin lived in D.C.

Huntress

It is a fair point Sarah but I think there is more to this.

I think GGs who are open to learn about CDing and seek acceptance actively seek out information and so soon discover that full emulation is common among CDs. That means the GG is already aware of where this is likely to end up whether or not the CD is aware of his own extent or ready to admit to it. This makes talking about the subject so much easier.

Communication is about holding hands together. Sarah, your learning and attitude meant your SO could feel confident about being 100% open. If you were instead reticent about the subject and were not interested in learning about it, would your SO have still been 100% truthful and open?

One thing I have to keep reminding myself is that other people's behavior towards me is actually a reflection of their perception of who I am. How I behave and present myself modifies how others treat me. Now their perceptions of me may be wrong but does that not indicate that I am not doing a good job informing them about my true thoughts and feelings and giving the right signals to open communications?

I believe CDs who take the baby steps route do so because they lack confidence that their SO will react in a reasonable and empathetic manner. There has to be a reason why they fear the worst and so decide baby steps are the best approach.

It is understandable that a GG who is likely in state of shock, confusion, and filled with society's transphobic ideas, is unlikely to be able to communicate and convince their SO that they are able and willing to discuss the whole truth.

So by all means critic the baby steps strategy and point out its problems but keep in mind CDs decide upon that approach for a reason.

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Originally Posted by SherriePall

I am one here who advocates taking it slowly. To me that means that once the CDer has come out to his SO, as fully as he believes himself to be at that time, he doesn't go wild and dress up fully every waking minute of the day. Or drag (pardon the pun) his SO down to the local bar while dressed. Or, taking the dressing into the bedroom when the SO is not ready.
At least not until the SO is willing and accepting of any of these situations.

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Excellent point.

That's exactly how I understand and practice the baby step policy.
Baby step policy is not at all about coming out in a progressive manner, what could be devastating, that's about adapting your behaviour - after the most sincere coming out - to what your SO can bear in her everyday routine. That's about taking in account her feelings and her needs.

I can testify that baby step policy - when meant in its proper definition not in a wrong one - is a quite successzful strategy from the point of view of both spouses. Moreover I observe this strategy is recommended in any good paper about how to deal with issues of acceptance.

Before you can answer another's question "where will it all end?" maybe you need to be able to answer it for yourself. Even if the answer is "I don't know". But if you hold back , taking baby steps, knowing there is so much more but are hesitant to reveal now, that causes concern "where it will end".
If you say you just want to wear a skirt occasionaly in the privacy of your home, but start adding pantyhose, shoes, wig, makeup, and then want to start going out, how could your partner not wonder where it will all end?
When I came out to my wife, I told her I liked to dress occasionally, completely, and over-the-top at that. But then, I told her where it will end. The timing of it gave it credibility. She knows that my dressup sessions are just that and only that. I don't want to go full-time, have surgery, sexual encounters with others, etc. and knowing that, is easier for her to accept what it is that I want to do. Just dress up.