I need input from other cross dressers...

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07-07-2014, 12:25 PM
mbeth426

I need input from other cross dressers...

First of all, I'm not a cross dresser, my husband is. He may even frequent this forum, I'm not sure. I know he belongs to cross dresser communities online, I'm just not sure how many or where they are, etc. But even if he is part of this community, it doesn't matter if he sees this because everything I write here I have talked with him about anyway. I'm sorry, but this is going to be long because there is just so much back story to the current situation.

I'm 30 and he's 26. I've known since the very beginning of our relationship that he enjoyed cross dressing and I am totally okay with it. Maybe for many of you it's different and your SOs are not okay with it and I'm sure it's very painful for you. From what he's told me, I'm rare. But he was also honest with me from the beginning, so if he never told me until after we got married, I think I would be more upset at him lying/hiding it from me but would get over it with time. I actually helped and encouraged him to cross dress in the beginning of our relationship. We've been together for over 7 years, lived together for 3 and September will be one year of marriage. Before we lived together he would only cross dress when he visited me on the weekends. I knew he uses a female name when in his female persona online, but I have never once called him that or referred to him as she, not even when he was in skirts or dresses - he never voiced any problems with this. I used to buy him skirts, dresses and necklaces too. It seemed like it was a sexual thing for him at first because when we did see each other, he would change into panties and a skirt (or some sort of lingerie) and we would have sex.

But after he moved in, he started buying his own clothes and bought a wig and makeup too. He seemed to take it a step further. I was still okay with that. But over time, I noticed he separated the two. He never wore his wig or wore makeup when we had sex - he would just put on a skirt and panties like he always did. The wig and makeup was saved for his own time when he was alone in his room (we have separate rooms because I'm a VERY light sleeper) and talking to his cross dressing friends online. He later told me this was because he was embarrassed to be around me because I'm a real girl? I'm still confused by that.

Then, the sex slowly stopped. I noticed he stopped initiating, it was always me going to him. The last time we had sex was in March I think. The last time we attempted to have sex was in May. This was when he expressed he lost interest in sex and porn completely and he wanted to see a therapist. Okay, I accepted this, he recognizes there's an issue and he wants to do something about it, good. This was definitely surprising because he was always very into sex and porn and had almost every fetish in the book. I was always very vanilla compared to him, but he always reassured me he was not and would not get bored with me. But weeks went by and I heard nothing about the therapist. I was having a hard time coping because I was feeling rejected and my self esteem and confidence were shot. He kept insisting it wasn't me (because he wasn't interested in anyone or anything), but it's really hard not to feel like it's me somewhat, because I am part of that "anyone". Plus, for me sex is the most intimate act and how I feel very close to him. He would not even kiss me more than a peck on the lips because deep kissing always lead to sex in the past. So I just felt us becoming more and more disconnected. I talked with him over and over, telling him how I was feeling, what I wanted, what I needed and he acknowledged it but nothing ever changed.

We went to one therapy session together (which I initiated, he still hadn't contacted a therapist by then). He made appointments with her after that, but he told me very little about what was discussed there. It wasn't until after our initial therapy session that he said he was not just uninterested in sex and porn, but actually disgusted by it. He felt grossed out even just watching plain vanilla sex. He also said when I went to him a couple times asking about if he called a therapist yet, he felt pressured and wanted to do it even less (I only approached him twice within the 2+ weeks since the initial discussion). Of course he never said this to me, the first time he mentioned it was in our first therapy session, so I was frustrated about that. All he kept saying was "I'll handle it" over and over, so I felt completely in the dark, had no idea if there was more going on than what he was telling me, etc. I even remember asking him if he wanted a divorce because I thought maybe he was hoping I would just divorce him over it. So there are definitely communication problems in our relationship.

The big thing behind all of this was that he said a switch was flipped and he has no clue what caused his sudden change of feelings about sex. He said it over and over and I kept trying to talk to him, to get more information from him. I was trying to understand it and wrap my head around it. I also wanted him to show me more affection and I wanted him to desire me again. I have been an emotional wreck because everything I suggested or tried to compromise on he shot down or said he wouldn't want to do it. I even asked once if he would just lay with me while I masturbated, with no pressure for him to do anything, because I didn't want to feel the emptiness of being alone while doing it. But he shot that down too, said he didn't want to see it. At our therapy session he said he was actually fine with never having sex again. This is when the severity of the situation really hit me hard. We were always on the same page about sex and now we are in completely different books. Not once did I ever think this would become an issue for us. I don't even consider myself to have a high libido, we were having sex once a week to once every other week and I was okay with that. But I cannot be happy in a completely sexless marriage and he knows this.

Then last week, after another one of our talks (which is mostly me talking about how I'm feeling), it finally came out. He told me he has been seriously thinking about completely transitioning. This blew me away. We had talked about this earlier in our relationship and he said he thought about it briefly when he was younger, but never really pursued it. He was just fine with cross dressing and never wanted to transition because he liked his penis and enjoyed using it. But now he told me, since he's not using his penis he feels like he might as well just transition completely. I asked him if he felt miserable in his male body and he said no. I asked him if he hated it and he said no. So from what I do know about those who are transgender and want to transition (I do have one friend that is FTM), this didn't make sense because I always thought they had this feeling of being born in the wrong body and feeling miserable in that body and he has never shown any signs of this and told me he does not feel this way. He saw a sex therapist once (he has another appointment next week) and he said he brought it up, but the focus was more on his issues with sex because he said he was there because it was affecting our marriage. So when he said he was thinking about transitioning, it was more in passing and not much was discussed about it. Obviously now he is going to be talking more about it. I'm still not sure if he his feelings are real though. I've always had this impression based on things he's said over the years that he idolizes females, puts them on a pedestal. I don't think that's normally the same feelings those who want to transition have? But it may just be me trying to find ways to make this not real.

However, as I tried to absorb all of this, I realized deep down I do not want a romantic relationship with a woman. If he fully transitioned, I feel like I would watch my husband slowly disappear. Transitioning is not just about changing the physical appearance and the clothes you wear daily. I know that, he knows that. So I have this feeling of if I stay with him, I lose him but if I leave I lose him. And at the same time I hate myself for not being able to fully support him through this. If he goes through with this, I know I cannot stay because I will not be happy. I know the entire dynamic of our relationship would change. But then I feel bad because he most likely won't have anyone to support him while he goes through this. He knows he can't deal with his emotions, so I worry for him because if he can't deal with his emotions now, it's going to be even worse if he starts HRT. He most likely will lose his mom and his oldest brother, which would mean he would lose his nieces as well. I'm not too sure about his other siblings (he is the youngest btw). You see, he is Vietnamese American and his parents gave him a lot of trouble for dating a white girl who also has a chronic illness (I have type 1 diabetes, but it is controlled and after nearly 18 years, still no complications). He was almost disowned over it. He struggled greatly with that over the course of our relationship and we almost didn't get married last year when his oldest brother said he would never approve of our relationship and would not go to the wedding. He actually went to therapy over it a few months before our wedding date (the same therapist he's seeing now - he sees her and a sex therapist right now). He made the final choice to go through it, no matter what happens with his family. Fortunately, his oldest brother did come to the wedding and we've had no issues with his family since then. I guess it was their final attempt to break us up.

Unfortunately though, his father passed away suddenly this past November. His mom seems to tolerate me now because I went to the funeral and cried. Apparently that makes me somewhat of a good person in her eyes. She never gave me a chance before, I had only met his parents twice before the funeral because she wanted nothing to do with me (I still don't really know how his father truly felt - he always just went along with whatever his mom said). So because of how closed minded his mom is, he and I both know she will not accept this. And because she doesn't, his oldest brother will not (doesn't matter how old you are, in his culture you always obey your elders). I know there were even arguments between his oldest brother and his wife because his wife felt they should support us and he felt more obligation to his mother. I am pretty sure his oldest brother lied to their mom about going to our wedding and they all tip toe around her out of guilt.

So after all this, I am in limbo. I am waiting for him to continue therapy to make absolutely sure this is what he wants to do. He has told me more about his feelings when he was younger, how he just stopped thinking about it because he didn't have support or money for it. He said he never thought about it even in our relationship because he presented himself online always as female and that was fulfilling enough for him. Now apparently it's not and that has all changed. But he also discussed about his feelings of mortality and there not being enough time after his father passed. How he has this feeling of needing to do everything he ever wanted to do now because life is short (this also includes making his own game, which he always had sitting on the back burner and worked on at a slow leisurely pace, but now he's putting it on the front burner). So now I feel like maybe he is being really rash about all of this and this is not something he truly wants to commit to. But even then I worry, if he changes his mind now, it doesn't meant it won't come up later. I'm also feeling horrible because I'm staying for the wrong reason - I am staying with the little hope I have that he'll change his mind. I want everything to go back to how it used to be before all of this unraveled so quickly. I know we can stay in therapy and work on the other issues within our relationship. Those started out to be so big and now they seem so minor.

He told me last night he feels like he wishes he had never said anything about wanting to transition, that he would just work on the sex issue and hopefully become okay with not transitioning. But I know that's not right either. I can't ask him not go through with it. He would be suffering in silence. Everything just feels so surreal right now, like a really bad dream I can't wake up from. I don't want to lose him, but I feel like no matter what it's going to happen one way or another. I talked to my sister, so she knows what's going on and I'm most likely going to talk to my parents on Friday about all of this. Because the thought of divorce and separating is so overwhelming too. Unfortunately I don't really have any local friends to help me through this. If we really do divorce, I'm considering moving to San Diego to be near my closest friend so I'd at least have him with me, but then the thought of trying to find a new job and the process of moving across the country is overwhelming too. So many people online have told me that even if we separate, I should still support him as a friend. If we were always just friends, I would totally support him 100%. But because we have been together romantically for over 7 years and he is my husband, I can't just shut off those feelings and stand by him as a "friend only" and watch the love of my life disappear. And I hate feeling like that too.

I have talked to partners of transgender online, but most of them in that community stayed and supported their partners through the process, so it just makes me feel even more guilty for not being able to do that. They also tell me that I should not keep hoping this will go away, that if he feels like this now it's never going to go away and it's very real and it would be the absolutely worst thing for me to ask him not to transition (which deep down I know is true). He and I both feel a lot of guilt right now. I feel guilty for not being able to support him, for not being able to be okay with never having sex again. He feels guilty about not being able to be the husband I married. And even if something happens in therapy and he does change his mind about all of this, there's still the issue of the lack of sex and we could very well end up right back here anyway. And of course it doesn't mean he will never have these feelings of wanting to transition again. After everything that happened with his family, I always had this feeling of "if we got through that, we can get through anything". So now I just feel so naive. We used to be such a great team, and now I feel it all slipping away. I want to stay close to him while he tries to figure this all out, but I'm scared of building myself up only to be re-broken again. But then I selfishly worry that if I distance myself, it will give him more reason to go through with it. I know it's selfish, but as I keep saying, I don't want to lose him.

I guess now, I just want to know if any of you have had the feelings of wanting to transition completely to female? What brought on those feelings? What made them go away? Was it like a switch was flipped, like he says it was for him? Did it affect your interest in sex at all? I just want to hear from other cross dressers too. Right now I hear from my husband and my transgender friend (who also said the transition for female to male is vastly different from male to female), so I just want to hear experiences from other cross dressers too. But I feel like me coming here is also another way of me trying to find reasons that this isn't real again. But last night I read the below on a different forum, so I still keep having this tiny hope that maybe this is what's happening for him, especially since he brought up his feeling like "life is short" after his dad dying and that he has a very difficult time dealing with death and mortality.

"Transvestites generally regard themselves as fundamentally male, and most would be appalled by the idea of actually changing their sex. A few transvestites carry their fantasy 'female self' too far and delude themselves into thinking that they are transsexual. Rigorous psychiatric screening is used before allowing 'sex-change' treatment to minimize the possibility of such people embarking on a course of action that they would come to regret."

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read all of this.
07-07-2014, 12:46 PM
kimdl93

Wow.. Way more than I can digest in one sitting! I really wonder about his sudden...after seven years...loss of libido. On my read, he doesn't sound like he is TS...just confused by the abrupt loss of interest in. It seems He came up with the notion of transition as a response to that abrupt change, not as a result of a need to transition.

He does need therapy to address the loss of libido....but he may also need a good thorough physical exam.

I won't speak for TS people, but as someone who leans a bit that way and really prefers living as a woman, I still have an active libido. Being TG hasn't diminished that...although mother time has at least a bit.
07-07-2014, 12:54 PM
mbeth426

I'm not sure what came first though, the loss of interest in sex or the thoughts of transitioning. He said they seemed to happen together. So it's one of the "chicken or the egg" situations. And if he is feeling like "Well, since I don't use my penis, might as well transition", then I'm feeling like he won't really care about getting his interest in sex back because it seems like him enjoying his penis was the only thing stopping him or something. We talked about this last night and he said it's possible.

I forgot to mention, he did get blood work done and all of his levels came back normal.
07-07-2014, 12:54 PM
Katey888

First of all, Welcome mbeth426 (Would that be Mary Beth? Sounds more friendly...:))

That's a very comprehensive summary and I'm sure many folk here will read to the end where the relevant questions are... And we have many folk here who are considering or actively transitioning. I'm sure those that read this will be able to offer some insight as it's probably a bit beyond most of us here who are in the 'regular' CD/TG category and have no desire or need to consider anything as radical as transitioning.

I'd say you are doing the right thing with respect to counselling - that must help and is essential...

I'd also say that you should try not to feel too guilty about the feelings you're having... while your H may not be able to help his needs in this respect, there's nothing to say that you must be accepting of such a huge change in a person and life... Your feelings are valid too - just try to work through this all and see how those feelings develop.

I wish you luck and patience with this obviously gruelling process... :hugs:

Katey x
07-07-2014, 12:59 PM
PaulaQ

Oh honey, I am so, so sorry you are going through this. It is incredibly painful, and sometimes it feels like there are no winners.

I'm a MtF TS - I'm 51 and I have been in transition for 11 months now. And yes, my interest in sex evaporated before I started my transition. Its hard to have sex when your penis just feels alien and wrong on your body. I hate to tell you this, but the symptoms you describe are very consistent with transsexualism - particularly CDing that is very sexual, and then a total loss of interest in sex.

Many of us know that something is wrong with us from a young age, but we don't always know what is the matter. Many of us live in denial - social pressure to remain a man is powerful.

Your spouse almost certainly needs professional help from a therapist who specializes in gender, as he is pretty likely to be suffering from serious gender dysphoria. By the time I started my transition, I barely clung on to the will to live, I'd already attempted suicide once.

There are marriages that make it through transition, but I won't kid you - most don't. And the ones that do generally are NOTHING like the original pre-transition relationship. As for feeling like your husband will vanish before your eyes, that's pretty much exactly what it's like. My wife wanted me gone 4 months after I came out to her. I hadn't even started transition. Now? To her and my children and old friends, I'm just a revenant of the person they knew as Scott. They don't even really see him in me anymore.

If you are able, with counseling, to get through your husband's transition, you will help him a lot. Going through it alone is horrible. However, know that it will be the most self-less thing you ever do, and the hardest yet least rewarding.

If you can't make it - there's no shame in that. Try to be kind if you both do part, and know this is absolutely not about you in any way, shape or form. Sure, it's happening TO YOU too, but this isn't anything you did, could have prevented, caused, or even predicted. It's been a ticking time bomb inside of him his whole life.

I wish I had better news for you, hon. I truly do.

After you get 10 posts, feel free to send me a private message if you have very personal questions, or feel free to just ask questions in the thread. I'll be happy to answer anything I can.

I'm really so sorry, hon, I really am. This is likely to be very, very hard for you.
07-07-2014, 01:00 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katey888

First of all, Welcome mbeth426 (Would that be Mary Beth? Sounds more friendly...:))

That's a very comprehensive summary and I'm sure many folk here will read to the end where the relevant questions are... And we have many folk here who are considering or actively transitioning. I'm sure those that read this will be able to offer some insight as it's probably a bit beyond most of us here who are in the 'regular' CD/TG category and have no desire or need to consider anything as radical as transitioning.

I'd say you are doing the right thing with respect to counselling - that must help and is essential...

I'd also say that you should try not to feel too guilty about the feelings you're having... while your H may not be able to help his needs in this respect, there's nothing to say that you must be accepting of such a huge change in a person and life... Your feelings are valid too - just try to work through this all and see how those feelings develop.

I wish you luck and patience with this obviously gruelling process... :hugs:

Katey x

The waiting is the worst. :( I'm very much a planner, so having everything open and uncertain is very difficult for me. Last year I had to wait for him to make a decision, he was either going to go through with the marriage or our relationship was going to be over. That was so difficult, but the ball was completely in his court. In this type of situation, it's in his court now, but it will bounce back and forth because it's not so one sided this time. Though my sister said something that was pretty helpful too: "But marriage isn't 100% guaranteed anyway. If you need that to continue, I don't know what to tell you. Hell, you could go through a life change that pushes HIM away. You only can rely on well-informed & discussed plans and gut feelings and love. Successful marriages, as I see it today, are ones that are half hard work and half luck-- luck in that the 2 people grow and follow parallel paths just by chance."
07-07-2014, 01:06 PM
Judy

I can perhaps relate to what is going on with him. Many years ago, I confided in a good friend and coworker that I was a CD. He told his wife about it and she was very accepting of me. I spent some time at their home and during one visit she asked me if she could help me get dressed. She and I went to their bedroom where I laid out my things that I had packed with me while I was out on a business trip. She looked thru my things and helped me decide on a white dress. Once that decision was made she then suggested that white underthings would be in order including a pretty white bra and panty set, and nude pantyhose. I stripped off my clothes down to my birthday suit and put on the bra and panties. She asked if she could do my makeup and did a fantastic job of making me look as pretty as she could. After she did my nails, toe and finger, I pulled on the pantyhose. She told me over and over how much I looked like a real woman as she put the dress on over my head.
While making sure that everything was in place, she asked me why I didn't have an erection. I guess she must have thought that our dress up session would have really turned me on, but for some reason it didn't. I told her that I had never seen a GG with and erection and that it just didn't seem very lady like for me to have one as well.
It was truly as if a switch had been turned off and since that day, it gets more and more difficult for me to become erect.
I wonder if a similar switch got turn off for him as well!
Just a thought.
Judy
07-07-2014, 01:10 PM
Vickie_CDTV

First off, if you don't have children together, don't!! Marriages that break up in this situation can end really ugly and you don't want to put children in the middle of it if you can avoid it. If you husband is TS, it is better to end the marriage now, and not 10-20 years down the road (when you have children, or when one may be physically or financially dependent on the other and trapped.) Only a small number of marriages survive beyond the point of transition, and virtually none beyond SRS (with some extremely rare exceptions; some may argue with me about how grim the statistics are but I have been around a long time in the trans community and have witnesses this firsthand and stand behind that.) I am certainly not saying you should just up and leave him, but you should go into things with full knowledge of the many possible problems that lie ahead.

For many pleasure/fetish dressers, no, the interest in sex does not go away. There are usually some issues between an SO and the fetish dresser (sometimes borne of misunderstanding sadly), but their interest in sex, even if the sex is only by themselves, does not go away. From what you describe sexually, your husband sounds more typical of a TS than a TV, but only a medical professional can make that determination. I wish you luck, and I am sorry this is something you have to deal with.
07-07-2014, 01:21 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judy

I can perhaps relate to what is going on with him. Many years ago, I confided in a good friend and coworker that I was a CD. He told his wife about it and she was very accepting of me. I spent some time at their home and during one visit she asked me if she could help me get dressed. She and I went to their bedroom where I laid out my things that I had packed with me while I was out on a business trip. She looked thru my things and helped me decide on a white dress. Once that decision was made she then suggested that white underthings would be in order including a pretty white bra and panty set, and nude pantyhose. I stripped off my clothes down to my birthday suit and put on the bra and panties. She asked if she could do my makeup and did a fantastic job of making me look as pretty as she could. After she did my nails, toe and finger, I pulled on the pantyhose. She told me over and over how much I looked like a real woman as she put the dress on over my head.
While making sure that everything was in place, she asked me why I didn't have an erection. I guess she must have thought that our dress up session would have really turned me on, but for some reason it didn't. I told her that I had never seen a GG with and erection and that it just didn't seem very lady like for me to have one as well.
It was truly as if a switch had been turned off and since that day, it gets more and more difficult for me to become erect.
I wonder if a similar switch got turn off for him as well!
Just a thought.
Judy

I don't know, maybe. That's interesting. The strange thing with him is, he's still very much "manly" when he dresses up. I remember times where I told him he shouldn't sit like a "man" when he's in a skirt/dress. Like he still has male mannerisms when dressed up. So I'm not too sure if it's an issue of him not feeling "lady like" with an erection since he's not really "lady like" when he's dressed up anyway. And he doesn't even dress up every day either. Not even every week.

And if he's so unwilling to spend time with me when he's fully dressed because I'm a "real girl" and he feels embarrassed, how the heck is going to make it through daily life out in public as a woman while transitioning? Everything is just so confusing. :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vickie_CDTV

First off, if you don't have children together, don't!!

Yes, no children thankfully. I read about a lot of trans women coming out to their wives when they've been married for 15+ years and have children, so I'm thankful we don't have children in this mess too.
07-07-2014, 01:29 PM
Desirae

I'll be very brief in my remarks because I'm sure many others will chime in on different parts of your post.

From what you wrote, I have the tendency to agree with you that your husband's father's passing is most likely the trigger that started all of this for him. At least brought his own mortality to his forethought. His thoughts of transitioning that he had in his youth were rekindled when he realized life was short. He'll have to explore these feelings on his own with his therapist. For the record, I'm NOT a therapist. This is just my take on it.

Also, even if he does transition, and you can't be in a relationship with him "in that way", as you said, you can still be his friend and support him through it, albeit in a "different way". Nothing wrong with that. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. You'll have to find a way to separate the "intimate" love you feel for him and the "friendship" love I'm sure you, also, feel for him and see if you can give him that friendship love if he does choose to transition.

I'm 22 years his senior. I've had the thoughts of transitioning many times. What keeps me from pursuing it? I'd say my age, mostly. If I were younger today and had all of the information we have today, I honestly don't know if I'd pursue transition. Let's just say I'd "explore" it. I don't think I rise to the level of a "true" transsexual. I don't hate my body and male parts "that much", whatever that means. I'm not saying I completely embrace them, I'm saying I'm not loathe of them as most TS are. I've been CDing since I was a young boy around 4 or 5.

In regard to relationships and sex.....................I can say I've never had a problem with sex. The other thing I need to say is that I'm a bit different, possibly, than some others on here. When I've been in relationships, and absolutely in love, my CDing was curtailed completely. I never told any of my former partners about my CDing. At the end of my relationship with my ex, as I fell out of love with her, I started CDing again. It's funny how that works. So, since I never told any of my prior sexual partners about my CDing, I never brought that side of me to the bedroom and never felt the need to. Maybe my GD (gender dysphoria) doesn't rise to the level of your husband's. Sex with a woman has always been something I desired. I've never had a question about it.

All I can say is the cliche' of hang in there and see where it goes and possibly be there for him if you can. If he's truly TS and this is "the time", from all of my extensive reading on here and the Internet, there's really nothing you'll be able to do to affect it. You'll just have to roll with it, possibly get some help for yourself if you need it, and be as supportive of your husband as you can. Good luck.

PS: Don't forget about asking the other GG (genetic girls) on here their advice, as they have already been through, or are going through, what you are now.

And I also wanted to add that I do believe that having overwhelming events in ones life and intense thoughts racing around in one's mind can INDEED affect a person's libido. That part of equation might be nothing more than that.
07-07-2014, 01:31 PM
Eryn

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

I guess now, I just want to know if any of you have had the feelings of wanting to transition completely to female? What brought on those feelings? What made them go away? Was it like a switch was flipped, like he says it was for him? Did it affect your interest in sex at all? I just want to hear from other cross dressers too.

I think of being TG as more of a continuum than as a binary. Most of us remain happy as CDers while others feel a stronger need to transition completely. I will say that my libido waxed and waned as I began to explore this part of myself more fully. There's a considerable amount of internal confusion and anxiety involved in this and of course the first thing to go is libido. Once our lives had settled down to a new equilibrium things recovered.

The quote at the end of your post is fairly correct but, like most attempts at explanation, it oversimplifies things. There are a considerably number of TG people who do not have surgery who nevertheless have transitioned to one degree or another. Some live full time as women, others live as women most of the time and assume male mode as needed for familial and social needs.

I have a question. Does your husband go out dressed? Do you go along on these outings? If he isn't going out then he is very far from any sort of transition. The usual protocol is that there has to be a "Real Life Experience" of a year or more where the TG person lives as their desired gender 24/7.

I think that the two of you are already doing many of the correct things. You're communicating and seeking counseling as appropriate.

I hope that things work out well for both of you. Change isn't fun, but then again change is not very predictable. What you think might happen may well not go the way you imagine it. There are many of us who, after the "storm" passes, keep our marriages intact and healthy.

Please keep posting. You have a lot of people here who care about you and want you to find the best possible outcome!
07-07-2014, 01:44 PM
traci_k

Hi mbeth, I am so sorry to hear of your situation and pain. Yes there is a lot going on here. Paula has a lot of good insight. If your husband is TS, there's probably nothing going to dissuade him from transitioning. However there's more going on here. Loss of affection. I eased back on my affection toward my wife because I was hiding the fact that I had started smoking again. Don't rule out the possibility of hiding something. Loss of libido? ruling out self gratification in the loss of interest of porn is puzzling. Loss of libido from a porn interest would be more likely, that's why its puzzling.
Trigger? My trigger was advancing age. Not wanting to die an old man. You are a much younger couple, but his father's passing could have struck a similar chord.

Can he be totally honest with you without recrimination? He has to know that you can be totally non-judgmental. That's why I can't be totally honest with my wife.
Also perhaps is there some guilt on his part from hiding the fact that he may have known he was TS. Was he pressured into the marriage? You said the ball was in his court to get married or end the relationship. A lot of us take the path of least resistance and hide things that would have been better brought out into the open. Could he have been caught between loving you and trying thinking he could keep his GD under control, or even denying it?

Either way, as other will recommend, see a therapist. Be honest and open.

And as Paula said, when you get to 10 posts, feel free to pose more personal questions via PM.

Hugs,
07-07-2014, 04:00 PM
Zylia

Here's some input from a transvestite that regards himself as male if anything. To the best of my knowledge, transition is an answer for those who experience a strong gender and body incongruence and are really unhappy about it to the point that it causes serious distress and impairment. However, this is all very subjective and subject to change throughout one's life. As for me, I'm not 100% sure about my gender and body congruence, but I do know that I'm not too 'dysphoric' about it. I'm not appalled by the idea of actually changing my physical appearance, I just think it's not going to improve my situation or align my body and self-image. If it ever does become an option, I know it's not the solution for all my problems.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, 'cross-dresser' and 'transsexual' aren't really absolutes in practice.
07-07-2014, 05:42 PM
PaulaQ

@mbeth426 - I spoke with a couple of my trans friends, and described your husband's behavior, as you gave it in the thread. Both of them agreed that he's transgender, and is quite likely to transition. A number of the symptoms you mention are the ones my own therapist uses to help diagnose someone. The sudden loss of libido, and even revulsion with sex is particularly telling, and has been documented in research studies on MtF trans women, particularly gynephillic (they are attracted to women) cross dressers.

You need to get your spouse in front of a competent gender therapist to figure out what's going on and what the next steps, if any, are. Being transsexual can be a very serious and even life threatening condition. (41% of us attempt suicide - 10x the average of LGB people!)
07-07-2014, 05:42 PM
Cheryl Ann Owens

I think what your husband will find is a harsh reality while considering transition. It is one of the most difficult things anyone can do. I considered it myself at one point in my life. Of course I'm older now and have resolved many issues as time went by. Once he fully realizes things like just the cost, the cost of possibly losing employment, family and friends, and then realizing all of the difficulties of assimilating into society, he may be shocked out of it. Other underlying personal issues won't go away. It's also much more difficult to be a woman in a male dominated society even for the advances women have made. That's the reality of it all.

I do hope you can resolve the issue for yourself through the therapy and hope he can too. It seems like there's more going on with him that he may need to resolve first before any therapist will consider him to make a rational decision to persue this further. It's probably the most radical step anyone can take. I wish you well. :-)

Cheryl
07-07-2014, 05:55 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desirae

Sex with a woman has always been something I desired. I've never had a question about it.

And I also wanted to add that I do believe that having overwhelming events in ones life and intense thoughts racing around in one's mind can INDEED affect a person's libido. That part of equation might be nothing more than that.

In case there's confusion about his sexuality, he has said over and over that he is not attracted to men and has no interest in dating or having sex with men. Though I did read one instance online of where a trans woman started HRT and suddenly only wanted sex with men and had no interest in having sex with her wife anymore. I brought this up as a small fear to my husband and of course he said he didn't see that happening, but how can he really say for certain? And I know what you're saying about his libido being affected by this and if it was just lack of interest in sex, I could understand that. But since he said he's disgusted and grossed out by it too, there's obviously something more there. If he was just not in the mood, I don't think he would be so resistant to the idea of just laying next to me and holding me while I masturbated. Hell, that was how the sexual part of our relationship started before we actually started having sex. Before he was ready to have sex, we used to just masturbate next to each other and touch each other, but no penis penetration. So I thought he would have been okay with that idea, but nope, he was very resistant to it.

He believed in no sex before marriage (or at least not before knowing for certain you are going to marry them) because he's Catholic. This was another thing he brought up last night - he was more religious in his teen years and he read that having a sex change was considered a sin, so he stopped thinking about it. After years of being with me (I am not religious), he stopped going to church every Sunday, though he does still pray before meals and before bed. I made sure my beliefs (or lack there of) did not influence him because I was okay with him being Catholic and his beliefs as long as he didn't force them on me. So once he was ready and felt for certain he was going to marry me, we did have pre-marital sex. I think that was back in 2010?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eryn

I have a question. Does your husband go out dressed? Do you go along on these outings?

To my knowledge, he has only gone out dressed once. It was well over a year ago, he met up with a CD friend at a gay bar. He didn't even go there dressed up, he brought clothes with him and got changed there. I did not go because I do not like bars, I don't drink at all. I don't like being around people who are drinking a lot and being drunk, etc. He went to a gay bar because he said it was a "safe" place to go dressed up. If he has gone anywhere else I am not aware of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traci_k

Can he be totally honest with you without recrimination? He has to know that you can be totally non-judgmental. That's why I can't be totally honest with my wife.

Also perhaps is there some guilt on his part from hiding the fact that he may have known he was TS. Was he pressured into the marriage? You said the ball was in his court to get married or end the relationship. A lot of us take the path of least resistance and hide things that would have been better brought out into the open. Could he have been caught between loving you and trying thinking he could keep his GD under control, or even denying it?

I would like to think he is being totally honest with me when I do ask him questions, but I'm not sure since he already knows where I stand about him transitioning. I asked him when he first told me how long he has been thinking about it and he said a couple months. He insisted he was not thinking about this before us getting married. I did not pressure him into getting married, but it was ultimately his choice. He had to decide whether he could still stay with me knowing some of his family may disown him. He made the choice. Though last night he kept saying how he wish he had never told me about him thinking about transitioning because he feels like if he just kept quiet about it he could work on the sex issue and hopefully become okay with not transitioning. He also said he felt like life is easier if he does not think about himself or his needs/wants. He's lead most of his life being happy when others are happy. So that's why it was a struggle for him to choose to marry me - he was going to hurt one of us, either me or his parents/brother. I guess he's never been in that situation because he lived most of his life appeasing his parents and just doing whatever they said and if they were happy, he was happy. Though he also lied to them about certain things when he was a kid, like saying he was going to study with friends when really he was just playing games (but we all do that as kids). They wouldn't have let him see his friends outside of school otherwise - they did not want him socializing with friends unless it involved schoolwork/studying. His siblings are all like that though, the guilt over upsetting their mother. She beats them up emotionally and guilt trips them if they do not meet her expectations, and it's damn near impossible to meet them anyway. It's pretty sad because she held so many grudges and didn't want to talk or see her children and wouldn't let their dad talk to them either. Now he's passed and she feels lonely, so she expects her children to bend over backwards for her so she won't be alone.

I really went off topic there, sorry.
07-07-2014, 06:09 PM
Wildaboutheels

Very nice, well written Intro. Get your 10 posts in where you can READ all the Forums and SEE what's in the Picture and Video gallery and it should all become very clear to you.

Of course I am just assuming that your penchant for reading matches your ability to express yourself so well and your knowledge level? It's really not that complicated. I can refer you to a small # of threads that probably answer most any Q you might have.
07-07-2014, 06:10 PM
PaulaQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

I asked him when he first told me how long he has been thinking about it and he said a couple months. He insisted he was not thinking about this before us getting married. I did not pressure him into getting married, but it was ultimately his choice. He had to decide whether he could still stay with me knowing some of his family may disown him. He made the choice. Though last night he kept saying how he wish he had never told me about him thinking about transitioning because he feels like if he just kept quiet about it he could work on the sex issue and hopefully become okay with not transitioning. He also said he felt like life is easier if he does not think about himself or his needs/wants. He's lead most of his life being happy when others are happy. So that's why it was a struggle for him to choose to marry me - he was going to hurt one of us, either me or his parents/brother. I guess he's never been in that situation because he lived most of his life appeasing his parents and just doing whatever they said and if they were happy, he was happy.

It's very likely that he's telling you the truth about not thinking about transition before you were married. I spent 17 years of marriage not thinking about transition. I didn't want to transition, and I lived in denial and terror of the gender issues I'd had since I was a kid. Finally though, the pressure became impossible for me to bear, and I came out to myself, and then to my wife one month later.

Pleasing others is a very common characteristic for transgender people. We live our lives in desperation, hiding this thing inside of us that the world tells us is wrong. We know we are broken, so we'll do whatever we have to do to fit in. Because we want to be normal. You'll see many of us go so far as to join professions viewed as being extremely masculine, such as the military (we are 4x more likely to enlist than a cisgender person), police, fire, etc. (We're also likely to be involved in Tech, or be pilots, and sometimes musicians.)

I lived my entire life, until last year, pleasing and taking care of everyone else BUT me. And it's been a real struggle to break that pattern - it's taken me a good year of therapy to really improve my boundaries.

He's most likely telling the truth that he isn't attracted to men. Most of us who transition honestly end up attracted to women. Some of us do decide we like men after we start HRT - that happens. It is even more likely after SRS. Still it doesn't really matter because you are straight, and probably won't be too attracted to her anyway.

BTW, lots of us never go out dressed in public. That means nothing. Some of us never cross dress at all, in fact. One of my good friends was a cross dresser since age 5. She always knew she was supposed to be a girl. And living in Texas, in the 70's, there was no freaking way that would happen. (Same situation I had, actually.) When she started her transition, she'd never been out of her home cross dressed. Indeed, it took a lot of coaxing on my part to get her out of her home.

edit - almost missed this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

Before he was ready to have sex, we used to just masturbate next to each other and touch each other, but no penis penetration.

This discomfort on his part about penetration earlier on may well have been a symptom of gender dysphoria. It's hard to say, since he had a very strict religious faith - but I can tell you that I had never been satisfied with having sex as a man. It was extremely frustrating - my wife would be feeling great, and fall asleep when we'd finished. Me? I got bored and got up and did other stuff, always unhappy that that was it. It was only after I began to really, really hate my genitals that I put those past feelings into the context of gender dysphoria.
07-07-2014, 06:12 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaQ

You need to get your spouse in front of a competent gender therapist to figure out what's going on and what the next steps, if any, are. Being transsexual can be a very serious and even life threatening condition. (41% of us attempt suicide - 10x the average of LGB people!)

He's already started seeing a sex therapist that also specializes in gender issues. He said he likes him so far, though he's only seen him once. His next appointment with him is next week. However, he does not seem depressed to be. I actually have a lot of experience with depression myself as I have Bipolar II (his family does not know this, nor do they need to) and I am taking meds for it. I cannot deny that I am starting to suffer from depression again from all of this. So far no suicidal thoughts for me, and I really hope it stays that way. Though the last time I was severely depressed (mid 2010), I was in this state of not wanting to die because I'm scared of death but also not wanting to live. But for him, I do not see any of this. I've told him that I do not see depression or that he's feeling miserable and he doesn't tell me I'm wrong. Though I guess he hasn't exactly come out and said I'm right either. But he doesn't really talk too much during our discussions anyway. He's saying more than he used to, which is good, but still no where near as much as me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheryl Ann Owens

I think what your husband will find is a harsh reality while considering transition. It is one of the most difficult things anyone can do. I considered it myself at one point in my life. Of course I'm older now and have resolved many issues as time went by. Once he fully realizes things like just the cost, the cost of possibly losing employment, family and friends, and then realizing all of the difficulties of assimilating into society, he may be shocked out of it. Other underlying personal issues won't go away. It's also much more difficult to be a woman in a male dominated society even for the advances women have made. That's the reality of it all.

I do hope you can resolve the issue for yourself through the therapy and hope he can too. It seems like there's more going on with him that he may need to resolve first before any therapist will consider him to make a rational decision to persue this further. It's probably the most radical step anyone can take.

Yes, I have thought about these things too. That maybe he's just being rash. I know he's not going to make a decision overnight and this could take months for him to figure out what he really wants to do. Not looking forward to staying in limbo for that long, but I hate the thought of just giving up now when there's that chance he may not want to fully transition anymore. I brought up some of the things he would have to go through and he says "I know, I know" and I can tell there's this negative tone in his voice, so I stopped mentioning it. It's part of the thing that worries me since I said before that I feel like he puts females on a pedestal. Right now he gets to experience the cute clothes, hair and makeup. But if he were to truly transition and live life as a female, he may begin to realize the grass isn't always greener on the other side. But that's for him to discuss with his therapist. I don't think hearing it from me will be helpful since I am biased.
07-07-2014, 06:29 PM
PaulaQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

Right now he gets to experience the cute clothes, hair and makeup. But if he were to truly transition and live life as a female, he may begin to realize the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

This is very true, but it will probably not make any difference if he really needs to transition. I had no illusions about life as a woman - I watched what my single mom, and sister went through while I was growing up. But hey - life as trans is often a whole bunch harder even than life as a woman.

As I said, the agony I was going through in my mind was so awful that it didn't matter how badly the treatment for it screwed up my life. I was ready to die anyway, so what did I have to lose? And if what I went through was no better than the horrible agony of my dysphoria, well, nothing precluded suicide.

My wife had no idea I had these feelings at all. My coming out to her was a complete shock and surprise. She never knew I'd crossdressed. It was only later, when I began to be more honest, that people around me really saw the misery I lived with. But if you look in old photos of me, starting when I was a pre-teen, you'll see my eyes are so, so sad.

As for what he'll have to go through should he transition, well, you can't even begin to imagine what it's like - and neither can he. I will say though, that hard as it's been so far, I'm actually happy now for the first time in my life. I like the woman who looks back at me in the mirror now. I hated the guy who always did before. I still have a long way to go, and I've lost a lot, although not as much as so many others, but I don't regret this at all, not for one minute. Transition saved my life.

edit: BTW, should your husband transition, know a couple of things:
1. This isn't something he asked for or decided to do. He was born this way.
2. Transition is a treatment for an awful medical condition. I'm not saying this means you have to stay and watch it happen - it's really hard on a spouse. But know that when it comes down to it, most of us are fighting for our lives, sometimes literally, but in all cases we are trying desperately to end a truly miserable condition.
07-07-2014, 06:44 PM
Princess Grandpa

I'm afraid I have nothing to contribute to help. I just wanted to send a virtual hug. Things are hard and likely to get harder before they get better.

Hug
Rita
07-07-2014, 07:00 PM
Rhonda Jean

Is it possible he's been dabbling in hormones (herbal or otherwise)? I know hormones can have exactly this effect on libido and attitudes on sex. I think some of us try hormones hoping to find a magic boob-growing pill and find out it only stopped erections and caused a loss of libido.
07-07-2014, 07:53 PM
devida

Thank you for your very thorough description of the tremendous problems you are encountering with the man you married. I would like to ask a question. I do understand that you love him, that you have been together for a number of years, although only sexually intimate for a little while and only married for a year. I also understand that you are asking these questions of transgender men because you are pretty sure your husband has become transgender and that this is an explanation for his abrupt disinterest in sex and any kind of physical intimacy.

The question I have is

Are you prepared to spend the rest of your life woth someone who does not want to make love to you, who finds sex with you disgusting and who, apparently, finds it very difficult to be physically affectionate towards you?

If you are then by all means be reconciled to a companionate marriage. Perhaps your husband would allow a non monogamous relationship and you would be content with finding physical affection outside of your marriage. From your description of your husband that does not seem likely. But I suppose you could ask if you feel that this might be a solution.

I am sorry to say that the basic problem here does not actually have much to do with transitioning or gender identity or anything else. The problem is that if you want marriage to include sexual intimacy your marriage has stopped providing it. Since sexual intimacy is actually a fundamental right in marriage and really pretty important especially in new marriages with young people I think you must ask yourself why ever you would want to remain in a marriage like this.

I know this sounds harsh. I have been with my wife for many years and a few years ago due to medical problems our marriage became a companionate marriage. I am OK with this and I certainly have my wife's permission to explore alternatives if I should so choose, but we have been married for three decades and we had lots and lots of sex during that time. You sound like someone who, like most human beings, likes sex and wants to have it with someone who loves you and wants to express this love by making love to you.

i really do think that you have to take a long view about this. You are young. You have plenty of time to find someone who wants to be intimate with you and wants to marry you and be with you for the rest of your life. Try to see this in terms of what your needs are. It seems fairly clear that your husband is certainly seeing things in terms of what his needs are. If this had happened aft you had been married for 25 years or so I would agree with most of the other posters here that you should be supportive and compassionate and wait to see if he could work this out. But you have only been married a year and he thinks making love to you is disgusting? Really? And you want to know what you should do? Really?
07-07-2014, 08:21 PM
Roxie

you've had a lot of good info from people on this site about transitioning which by any means I don't much about it . All I really have to say is you should not feel guilty about how you feel.Anyone else would feel the same way. Keep up trying to work this out and if it doesn't then worry about that when it comes .you sound like a strong person.I wish you the best of luck and please keep us updated.
Roxie
07-07-2014, 08:32 PM
PaulaQ

@devida - her relationship issue has everything to do with gender. Her spouse is likely to get a libido back after starting HRT, or getting SRS, if that's what she chooses to do. Some don't and end up asexual, but most of us eventually get a libido back.

Her problem is whether or not her spouse will transition, and what she'll do about it.
07-07-2014, 10:45 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaQ

@devida - her relationship issue has everything to do with gender. Her spouse is likely to get a libido back after starting HRT, or getting SRS, if that's what she chooses to do. Some don't and end up asexual, but most of us eventually get a libido back.

Her problem is whether or not her spouse will transition, and what she'll do about it.

Pretty much. I mean this all started with the loss of interest in sex issue, but everything else unraveled from there. Even if it was just the lack of sex issue, I still wouldn't skip town immediately. He has a problem, he was/is addressing it. And it's not so much him just thinking sex with me is disgusting, but all sex as disgusting. So, it's not like I'm the problem (though as I've already admitted, my self esteem and confidence has been affected by it). So, even if he goes through therapy and decides not to transition, the issue of his feelings toward sex and the communication problems are still there, but I told him I'd still be willing to stick around and try to work through them, while still knowing ultimately in the end it could still not work out. I hate giving up and I'm a fighter. Living with type 1 diabetes, Bipolar II, Hashimoto's thyroiditis and PCOS, I just have to be. So I have taken that quality into my relationships. But he also knows I feel like sometimes he's not fighting as hard for us as I am, even though we used to fight as a team. But I think part of it is he doesn't want to hurt me and he feels so much guilt over the hurt and confusion I am feeling now, that he is afraid to fight and still not have it work out. He told me today in therapy they talked a lot about his feelings of guilt and trying to be okay with it.

Though I will say this, as much as you keep saying how depressed and suicidal and miserable you felt, I still do not see this in him. I think that's why he even thinks about not going through with it, because he doesn't feel miserable and depressed. He just needs to sort it all out. And all I can do is wait.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

Is it possible he's been dabbling in hormones (herbal or otherwise)? I know hormones can have exactly this effect on libido and attitudes on sex. I think some of us try hormones hoping to find a magic boob-growing pill and find out it only stopped erections and caused a loss of libido.

Not something I really considered, but I'm fairly certain he hasn't/isn't. I could ask him to be absolutely sure, but regardless of the answer it doesn't really change his current thoughts/feelings so I don't think the answer really means anything.
07-08-2014, 12:20 AM
PaulaQ

Not everyone experiences the same depression and anxiety that I did. I waited too long to start transition. By the time someone is as miserable as I was, it's sometimes too late for them. I was surprised I made it through the last year. Some of us just realize we'll never really feel right or be happy unless we transition. I bet he's been more miserable than you realize. Gender dysphoria is nasty - I wouldn't wish what I went through on terrorists.

To some extent, transition has to be worth it before it makes sense to do it. It's a tough process, and what you gain needs to be better than what you lose.

It's possible he won't fully transition - some of us are able to get significant improvement from only HRT. This is way less radical than a full transition.

Do keep in mind though that what he's going through is essentially the same kind of thing that gives you diabetes. Your body doesn't produce enough insulin. His doesn't produce enough estrogen, and it affects his mind. I hope you are able to see it that way if it comes to that.

Research suggests that transgender people undergo some type of hormonal anomaly in utero. This causes portions of our brains to develop as the wrong gender. For reasons we don't understand yet, people finally reach a point they can't stand their gender dysphoria at different times of their lives.

If he does transition - and I hope he doesn't need to - try not to see it as his failure to fight for your marriage. If he needs medical treatment, he just needs it.

Like I said, what you describe sounds pretty trans to me.

edit:

I forgot to mention that I really sympathize with the agony of your waiting for a decision about whether or not to transition from your spouse. My wife went through that with me, and it was horrible for her. Our relationship during the four months between my coming out, and then our separation, was a roller coaster ride, and really miserable for the both of us. The waiting for my decision was one of the worst parts for her. I told her that I didn't want to transition, but I knew that I couldn't rule it out. I was sick enough that I'd just do whatever I had to do to find relief, regardless of the cost. I'd hoped that just crossdressing would be enough - unfortunately she couldn't bear to see me dressed. Seeing me for the first time greatly accelerated our separation. Once I knew I needed HRT, I told her I'd transition, and we ultimately split up. I started my transition the day I moved out of our home.

From the perspective of a wife, the transition of her husband can feel a lot like his death. It's a grief process. I hope you are spared this, but understand that this could really happen, I'm very sorry to say.
07-08-2014, 01:02 AM
Nikki Love

Hi Beth,
Thank you for such a heartfelt letter. You are a very special person. I am sorry to read about your difficulties in your marriage. I have no great advice for you. Life can be difficult. Relationships can be hell. If I were in similar circumstances, I would select the top needs you need from a partner to feel fulfilled, clearly spell them out. Offer support, perhaps as a friend or perhaps as a wife. Determine a time line to develop stability in you own life. Reach out to friends who can support your core. And act accordingly.
Wishing you the best,
Nikki
07-08-2014, 06:45 AM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaQ

Seeing me for the first time greatly accelerated our separation. Once I knew I needed HRT, I told her I'd transition, and we ultimately split up. I started my transition the day I moved out of our home.

From the perspective of a wife, the transition of her husband can feel a lot like his death. It's a grief process. I hope you are spared this, but understand that this could really happen, I'm very sorry to say.

The small difference between me and your ex-wife is that I've already seen him dressed. Well, dressed as a woman in a man's body. The difference is, eventually the clothes, wig and makeup eventually come off and he's back to being male. I still feel attracted to him when he's just in a skirt/dress. Though we've never tried having sex when he's fully dressed because I said earlier, he doesn't like to be around me when he's fully dressed up because he feels embarrassed to be around a "real" girl. I can't say that even if he didn't get a full sex change and just did HRT that I'd be okay with that. I consider HRT to be pretty much transitioning too because he'd still be living his life as a woman 24/7, but still have a penis. I've already thought about this reversed, what if I had met a trans man but he didn't get surgery to have a penis. I think I could actually become okay with it because he lives his life as male. Even I know there is more to gender than just genitalia. So while you say it will be easier if he decides just to do HRT, it will not be easier for me. Even if he still has a penis, he will no longer be male to me and I will still feel like I'm watching my husband disappear. And yes, I agree comparing this to his death is a very good analogy.

He's leaving for his business trip today, so maybe a couple days apart will be good for us.
07-08-2014, 08:37 AM
PaulaQ

There are big differences between you and my wife - you are much more tolerant of your husband's CDing. My wife had very rigid views on gender and sex roles. She wanted John Wayne - somehow she ended up with me. She couldn't touch me for two weeks after I had my chest hair waxed off. You are able to accept and support a lot more than she could. You probably have a fighting chance of making it through this keeping your marriage if that's what you choose to do. My wife couldn't even stand the idea of me CDed.

I can appreciate your feelings about not staying with a transitioning spouse. I've been in your husband's position, and I certainly wouldn't judge you - and neither should anyone else, regardless of your decision.

I would suggest getting some counseling yourself. You'll need it.

If he transitions, and you can't follow him in that path, try to respond with love and understanding rather than anger and resentment. He didn't choose to be this way - none of us did. It's tragic for you both if that's the way it goes. He may well lose his entire family.

Sorry I'm spinning the worst case scenario for you. I know I'm not much fun to hear, and I grieve about what I'm telling you. I watched my wife fall apart trying to deal with my gender issues.

Paula
07-08-2014, 09:54 AM
BeckyW

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

Though I will say this, as much as you keep saying how depressed and suicidal and miserable you felt, I still do not see this in him. I think that's why he even thinks about not going through with it, because he doesn't feel miserable and depressed. He just needs to sort it all out. And all I can do is wait.

For what it's worth (and it might not be much)...

Not everyone experiences depression the same way. Some people who are clinically depressed don't feel sad at all. Sometimes, they just feel nothing.

I lost both of my parents in the same year, when I was in my mid-40's. I have always had some cross-gender feelings, but they were pretty tame most of my life. When my parents passed though, the combination of grief, guilt, depression, and just the general sense of life whizzing by while not feeling like I can express myself for who I really am, just about knocked me out.

I had a very sudden, very strong gender crisis. I started cross dressing, and seriously thinking about transitioning. Although my wife would love me no matter what, I think me becoming a woman would wreck my marriage. I honestly could not see any way to make my life work. (To make things extra fun, I tend to be obsessive about things, so any bad thoughts I have, I really chew on... for *months* in some cases.)

Anyway... Long story short, I went on anti-depressants, and I feel much better. The meds don't take away my gender dysphoria, but they reduce the obsessing, which makes having GD more of a manageable annoyance than a major continual life crisis.

I still cross-dress occasionally, and will continue to do so, because the feminine part of me still needs to be expressed.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living on borrowed time though, because who knows? At some point the anti-depressants may not be enough, and I may not be able to control my thoughts any longer. I know on some level that the GD isn't under my control. But... for today, and for the foreseeable future, I'm ok with being a guy.

So... my point... I think your husband is going through a crisis on more than one front (considering he lost his father), and may need to be evaluated and possibly treated for depression even though he doesn't seem to have classic symptoms of depression. The gender issues are certainly a problem, but it might be good to try to take care of other things first.

For you though, please get some local support. Don't go through this on your own.
07-08-2014, 12:00 PM
DonnaT

Quote:

Last year I had to wait for him to make a decision, he was either going to go through with the marriage or our relationship was going to be over.

From all that has been said, and the indication that his testosterone level is normal, it seems very much that he is living in denial. The question is, is it a denial of being transsexual or a denial of being asexual, or both.

For example, his hesitation regarding marriage. Seems as though his inner woman was causing this hesitation, and his denial won out in the argument going on in his mind. Or he had issues with being asexual and worried about committing to a relationship that normally involves sexually satisfying one's wife.

Another example is his need to wear a skirt and panties before having sex. Seems he is not comfortable with having sex, as a man, and the clothes he wore let his mind, as much as possible, take "the him" out of the equation. Or it took him out of the equation altogether, mentally, and he made believe he was someone else.

His religion (same as mine) was quite possibly a crutch to avoid sex, as a man. Or an excuse to avoid sex because of his asexuality.

You mention porn. Was this an aid, a need, to him getting aroused? The mind is a powerful tool at times, but sometimes it needs help to get past an inner issue, whether it is being (apparently) transsexual or asexual, or both.

Hopefully his therapist is considering all the above possibilities.

If I were a therapist, and knew what the heck I was going on about, I'd lean more to the possibility that, gender-wise, he's a CD, and sexality-wise, he's asexual.
07-08-2014, 03:16 PM
sometimes_miss

O.K., I'm not TS, though I did have some long periods in my life where I thought I was. So consider that while reading all these thoughts, which may or may not reflect either your husband's or any other TS life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

The wig and makeup was saved for his own time when he was alone in his room (we have separate rooms because I'm a VERY light sleeper) and talking to his cross dressing friends online. He later told me this was because he was embarrassed to be around me because I'm a real girl? I'm still confused by that.

It's hard for some of us to be around GG's when we're crossdressed. A lot of us feel silly and embarrassed about it, because it's something drilled into our minds from the moment of being self aware, that it's something that is never acceptable in a man.

Quote:

Then, the sex slowly stopped. I noticed he stopped initiating, it was always me going to him.

Being the 'active' rather than the 're-active' person during sex is what men learn is our only acceptable role. And for those of us who don't actually feel that way? It makes us 'act' the role of a 'normal' guy every single time we have sex. And that can be exhausting. Years of doing that and at some point, sometimes we just can't keep up the act. Perhaps this is why he gradually 'let' you become the 'pursuer', and eventually stopped initiating sex altogether. Consider how you'd feel if you had to initiate every single time (as you've learned what it's like for a short time, imagine a whole lifetime of that).

Quote:

I asked him if he felt miserable in his male body and he said no.

To say otherwise is also something that very few men could ever do. The social conditioning that to feel or behave feminine is so terrible that it's very hard to admit it.

Quote:

this didn't make sense because I always thought they had this feeling of being born in the wrong body and feeling miserable in that body and he has never shown any signs of this and told me he does not feel this way.

Despite you've heard or read, not EVERY transsexual knows it from birth. Most do, but not all.

Quote:

I've always had this impression based on things he's said over the years that he idolizes females, puts them on a pedestal. I don't think that's normally the same feelings those who want to transition have?

We often see a female life as better than our own, but it's mostly because we're experiencing the bad parts of being men and not enjoying the good parts. So we see all the good parts of being a girl, but as not having experienced the bad, we don't really know how annoying those bad parts can be.

Quote:

However, as I tried to absorb all of this, I realized deep down I do not want a romantic relationship with a woman.

Remember, he is the same person that he always has been. His behavior may have changed (perhaps temporarily if the whole exhaustion concept is accurate in his case) but he's still the same guy he's always been. As he recovers from plunge into TS mode, he may be able to resume some of his previously normal male behavior, while learning to compromise his lifestyle just as you have done for him. But remember, he's been living an entire life like this, feeling forced to be something he was not. It will take some time to recover from that. If you love him, it's worth waiting to see how every thing works out. Don't forget how difficult it is to find someone we're truly compatible with.

Quote:

If he fully transitioned, I feel like I would watch my husband slowly disappear.

Yet if he doesn't go through with SRS, your husband may 'reappear' again, but perhaps not entirely as 'all man, all the time' as you would find ideal. Just as many men over the years have to learn to accept a wife who gradually grows out of the mommy/wife predominant role and later embraces a career that keeps her busy so you might have to deal with a husband who is learning to enjoy spending a good percentage of his time as a girl. No, it's 'not the same thing', as so many women have pointed out to me, but in a way, it is. Relationships and roles change. But who the person is, inside, usually does not.

Also, once he found out you would tolerate his desire to express his feminine feelings, over time he just let more and more of it come out, all the things he has felt over the years, never being able to say or do much about it, and now he has his chance. It happens to lots of us. Most of us never transition, even though we have the urge to do it, upon further examination, the end result of being a MTF TS is not what we really want. The desire to be a real girl can never be realized, and so all we have are the idealized dreams of what we see as a completely different life from what we have experienced, very unsatisfyingly, as a man.

Don't rush into feeling the need to do something. Give it time. See how it all plays out.
07-08-2014, 10:58 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaT

For example, his hesitation regarding marriage. Seems as though his inner woman was causing this hesitation, and his denial won out in the argument going on in his mind.

No, his gender issues and/or cross dressing had absolutely nothing to do with him questioning to marry me. It was all about his family and the thought of losing his parents (his father was still alive at that time), siblings and nieces/nephews. He feels very close to them and it caused a huge rift because he wasn't obeying his parents and continued seeing me. Yes, he was an adult at that time, but as I've said previously, age does not matter in their culture - you always listen to your parents/elders. Filial piety and family harmony is extremely valued in their culture. It's a very difficult concept for Westerners because we are such an individualistic society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaT

Another example is his need to wear a skirt and panties before having sex. Seems he is not comfortable with having sex, as a man, and the clothes he wore let his mind, as much as possible, take "the him" out of the equation. Or it took him out of the equation altogether, mentally, and he made believe he was someone else.

Not necessarily, there were times where he did not change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaT

His religion (same as mine) was quite possibly a crutch to avoid sex, as a man. Or an excuse to avoid sex because of his asexuality.

No, again it came down to his belief of not having sex with someone unless you were married or going to get married. And as I said, he eventually made up his mind that he knew he wanted to marry me (and I him) and we did have pre-marital sex.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonnaT

You mention porn. Was this an aid, a need, to him getting aroused? The mind is a powerful tool at times, but sometimes it needs help to get past an inner issue, whether it is being (apparently) transsexual or asexual, or both.

No, it was not a need to get aroused. He enjoyed porn a lot, but we never really watched it together. For the longest time, I could just touch him or kiss him or even sometimes just cuddling and he would get aroused. He would not even be dressed at that time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Being the 'active' rather than the 're-active' person during sex is what men learn is our only acceptable role. And for those of us who don't actually feel that way? It makes us 'act' the role of a 'normal' guy every single time we have sex. And that can be exhausting. Years of doing that and at some point, sometimes we just can't keep up the act. Perhaps this is why he gradually 'let' you become the 'pursuer', and eventually stopped initiating sex altogether. Consider how you'd feel if you had to initiate every single time (as you've learned what it's like for a short time, imagine a whole lifetime of that).

I think you may have misunderstood. It was a lot more equal previously. I would initiate too, it was definitely not all him. But before he stopped having interest all together, it was definitely all me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Remember, he is the same person that he always has been. His behavior may have changed (perhaps temporarily if the whole exhaustion concept is accurate in his case) but he's still the same guy he's always been. As he recovers from plunge into TS mode, he may be able to resume some of his previously normal male behavior, while learning to compromise his lifestyle just as you have done for him. But remember, he's been living an entire life like this, feeling forced to be something he was not. It will take some time to recover from that. If you love him, it's worth waiting to see how every thing works out. Don't forget how difficult it is to find someone we're truly compatible with.

He may have the same core values, but he will not be the same person as he always has been. Do not even try to tell me that. Otherwise none of us would have any issues with our SOs transitioning! As I've said, if he was always just a friend, I could support him, but as a romantic partner I cannot. And I cannot just switch off the feelings for him to suddenly become just his friend. Even in the past when he was questioning staying with me because of his fear of losing his family, he asked if we could still be friends if we broke up and I told him no. Sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too. That is not to say that after time it's possible (but not guaranteed) that we could become friends, but I will need the separation to move on and get over the pain. He can so easily shut it off and "save face", but I cannot. I am much more of an emotional person. I always say I cry enough for the both of us.

Sorry, but this comes across like you are trying to guilt trip me over this. I do not feel guilty for how I feel. We had discussed this possibility in the past, he had plenty of opportunities to go in further detail about how much he pursued it, what his feelings were back then, but he gave me the impression that it was a brief feeling and it wasn't important to him and that he just enjoyed cross dressing, that was it. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting more details about what he felt like back then and what his fears were and what stopped him. He had the time back then to tell me those things, but he didn't. I have shared a lot of my personal emotional feelings, past and present, with him. If he didn't have the tendency to brush everything under the rug and avoid problems/issues (not just regarding gender issues) things would not always blow up as they do. It wouldn't have blown up last year and it wouldn't have blown up as bad as it is now. And he kept saying he had NO CLUE what was going on, but then it finally came out weeks later that he was thinking about this for a couple months. Don't sit there and tell me time after time that you have no idea what's going on when you have been thinking about something this drastic for MONTHS. I thought after everything that happened last year and he said he understood how bad it got and that he would never let that happen again, I trusted him and he did the same damn thing. So even if he doesn't transition and we stay together, he/we are going to stay in long term therapy to work through this. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. I have tried to compromise several times, but he always has the attitude of "well, this is how I've always done and dealt with things". Well, that's nice for when you're on your own, but you're married now. Your problem is my problem and vice versa.

And I'm not going to feel bad that it's going to be hard for him to find a compatible partner. It's hard for everyone, some have it harder than others. I have my own issues and insecurities, there aren't that many men out there who like overweight girls either (and I don't want to date someone who specifically looks for fat girls because it's their fetish or whatever). I have chronic health issues and my weight has always been a struggle for me and I battle with it and my energy levels (I have sleeping problems and did a sleep study, but they didn't find anything). But unfortunately, for most people first impressions are "Oh, you're fat? You must overeat and eat fast food and junk food all day." So, yeah, I'm not exactly looking forward to entering the dating field again either if/when I do move on from him.

And today talking with my therapist, even she was taken back how he's now all of sudden ready to lose his family over this. It was like I was some stepping stone for him to get over that hurdle of confronting his family and getting over the guilt of disappointing/losing them. So, in a way, I feel very used. Do I think he did all of this on purpose? No, of course not. But I do feel some anger and resentment too, and I feel they are very valid feelings. But I do try to hold back because yelling at him and telling him how angry I am does not help. So I generally let it out in therapy. Though once a week is not seeming to be enough lately.
07-09-2014, 02:11 AM
PaulaQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

He may have the same core values, but he will not be the same person as he always has been. Do not even try to tell me that. Otherwise none of us would have any issues with our SOs transitioning! As I've said, if he was always just a friend, I could support him, but as a romantic partner I cannot. And I cannot just switch off the feelings for him to suddenly become just his friend.

I think you are right about this. Some of us don't change very radically, some of us change a lot. I'm very different myself. There are many things about me that are the same - my sense of humor and intelligence. My desire to help others is greater than it used to be. My sexual preferences aren't really even recognizable from before. My self-confidence, decisiveness and aggressiveness are MUCH better than they used to be - ironically these are traits my wife always wished I had more of. She always wanted someone who'd slap her when she was out of line, and then kiss her. As a man, I could never do that - NEVER. I hated raising even my voice to my wife. As a woman? I'm in a relationship where that's pretty much what happens. I'm still trying to integrate this all together and understand what really makes me tick. Some of these changes have been pretty large from my perspective, and I'm not entirely comfortable with all of them yet. But I'm getting there.

Bottom line - I'm not the person I used to be.

You may find, over time, that you are able to be your spouse's friend, even if you can't stay married to her. That happens fairly often in my experience, although it can take a while before it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

We had discussed this possibility in the past, he had plenty of opportunities to go in further detail about how much he pursued it, what his feelings were back then, but he gave me the impression that it was a brief feeling and it wasn't important to him and that he just enjoyed cross dressing, that was it. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting more details about what he felt like back then and what his fears were and what stopped him.

And he kept saying he had NO CLUE what was going on, but then it finally came out weeks later that he was thinking about this for a couple months. Don't sit there and tell me time after time that you have no idea what's going on when you have been thinking about something this drastic for MONTHS. I thought after everything that happened last year and he said he understood how bad it got and that he would never let that happen again, I trusted him and he did the same damn thing.

And today talking with my therapist, even she was taken back how he's now all of sudden ready to lose his family over this.

A couple of things here - I'm not trying to defend him or rationalize his actions. It does sound like he wasn't really totally forthcoming with you. A lot of us try to deny this stuff. We do dumbass things like marry hapless genetic women or join the military to try to prove we're really men. We fight against these feelings, tell ourselves "I'll beat it this time!" He probably really wanted what he told you to be true, and may have been in denial about the fact that it was in retrospect a load of bullshit.

I got married twice - I'm a real hazard to genetic women, obviously. I desperately wanted to fight down the stuff inside me. Everyone told me it was wrong, perverted, evil, sick. It's just easy to lie to yourself when your whole life is based around a lie. May as well lie to yourself - you end up lying to everyone else anyway. What's one more? Of course the person you love most is a casualty in all of that lying and deception.

I suspect there's a fair measure of all of that going on with your husband. Most of us fight the need to transition. Coming out to yourself, actually understanding "yes, I'm a woman" is the hardest person a transgender person will come out to. Most of us go through just ridiculous mental and emotional gymnastics to try to avoid the truth about ourselves.

Once the walls in our mind start to break down, and we begin to accept who we really are, it can be like a tsunami - this just unstoppable force that impels us on. It can happen very, very quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

And I'm not going to feel bad that it's going to be hard for him to find a compatible partner. It's hard for everyone, some have it harder than others. I have my own issues and insecurities, there aren't that many men out there who like overweight girls either (and I don't want to date someone who specifically looks for fat girls because it's their fetish or whatever).

I'm very sorry to hear about your health issues, and I sympathize with you - big girls are beautiful in my opinion, but so many stigmatize you. It's very unfair, and really cruel.

One question though - why wouldn't you date the type of person who is attracted to your body type? I mean, sure, I can understand not wanting to date some creep who wants to sleep with as many larger women as he can. There are guys like that who are attracted to pre-op trans women, too. But there's bound to be at least a few genuinely nice guys who'll love who you are, both physically, intellectually, and emotionally.

As for your spouse, her future, should she transition will likely be something like the following:
- unless she has amazing insurance, she's likely to stay pre-op for a while, maybe forever.
- She'll likely end up with another trans woman, many of us do.
- Being pre-op, it'll be tough to find a genetic woman as a partner. Not impossible, but harder. Easier if she ends up being very passable and pretty. (Pretty counts for a lot, just like in every other situation in life.)

I can appreciate and sympathize with your anger, frustration, resentment, and your feelings of being used. I watched my wife go through all of that with me. I never wanted to hurt her, but I surely did.
07-09-2014, 09:05 AM
Beverley Sims

Beth,
Transitioning is not on my agenda, maybe more time will tell and his thoughts will stabilize a little.
Loss of libido is a surprise and I would say that look as to what is interesting him more than you.

I think a therapist in this case is a good tool, do what you can to keep him seeing one.
07-09-2014, 08:14 PM
donnalee

Hi Mbeth, and welcome.
You have my sympathy; I know it seems like an unendurable situation for you with no good way left to proceed, but please don't worry and imagine problems that don't yet exist. I don't think your husband knows what or has a clear idea why this has happened and obviously he can't communicate the answer to you if he doesn't know himself.
The religious rigid upbringing and "mommy dearest" behavior are reminiscent of "Stockholm Syndrome" or child abuse where the abused will do anything to please their abuser in hopes of placating them. Since his father's loss is likely place to examine, perhaps that may be where to begin; ask him if he wants to talk about it. It might be helpful to have a neutral 3rd party with experience in couples and transgender therapy, but it would be best to avoid those who are restricted by dogma, i.e. those with another goal than just trying to help their patients; pretty much anyone can call themselves a "therapist" these days.
Don't panic or get ahead of yourself; I know you're trying to figure this out and there are a lot of fears as you don't know what the future holds, but rushing the solution is not going to solve any problems.
You must love him very much to go this far to support him; he's a lucky girl.
The best for the future,
Donna
07-09-2014, 09:07 PM
mbeth426

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnalee

Don't panic or get ahead of yourself

Funny, I just had to chuckle at reading that and then reading this in your signature:

Quote:

Originally Posted by donnalee

ALWAYS plan for the worst, then you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens!
07-09-2014, 09:23 PM
Wildaboutheels

Congrats on reaching 10 posts! I recommend going to the P&V gallery now and wandering around a bit. I feel sure it will help answer some questions you might have and possibly help clear at least some of the confusion.
07-09-2014, 09:25 PM
docrobbysherry

Mbeth, first, I'm sorry your having these issues. Here's my 2 cents on your mishmash of issues:

1. Trying to read his mind is beyond anyone's ability here.

2. 26 and not interested in sex? Sounds like either there's something crucial he's NOT telling u, or he doesn't know himself yet.

3. 26 is way too young for men to get married. They should wait until 30+, when they r more likely to be mature, before thinking about that. Women should wait until 27+ when they tend to mature. My daughter got married at 24. Now, at 27 she can't live with her SO any more!
07-12-2014, 12:30 AM
donnalee

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbeth426

Funny, I just had to chuckle at reading that and then reading this in your signature:

"Acting" and "preparing" are far different from each other, although they may concern the same issues. However, I am glad to hear that I provided some amusement for you in difficult times.
07-12-2014, 01:44 AM
sometimes_miss

Quote:

Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

3. 26 is way too young for men to get married. They should wait until 30+, when they r more likely to be mature, before thinking about that. Women should wait until 27+ when they tend to mature. My daughter got married at 24. Now, at 27 she can't live with her SO any more!

Just had to chime in on this; it's not usually the age, but the length of time of the relationship that makes the biggest difference. It takes an average of about 30 months before people can even begin to really 'see' their partner for who they really are. Some longer, some shorter of course; but a huge percentage of people make the decision to get married way too early, while they are still in the relationship with their head in the clouds, thinking everything's just wonderful, unable to see their partner's potential incompatibilities clearly. Now I can hear everyone say out loud, 'Not me, I'm absolutely sure she/he's the right one for me'. Well, history says otherwise. So does modern psychology. Turns out we're hard wired to be attracted, get pregnant, and stay together just long enough for that kid to get up on it's feet. Then the gradual downslide of interest, attraction, as you approach what has been known as the seven year itch to find someone new. Again, the period of time varies. But it happens with so much regularity it's hard to ignore.
07-12-2014, 10:22 AM
mbeth426

I think most people say at least 1-2 years for a relationship before considering marriage. Hell, so many people get married before living together or even having sex, so then their marriage fails because they can't deal living with their spouse and their habits, or they're just not compatible sexually (if sex is important to at least one of them). But see, we went through all of this. We lived together for 2 years, dated for 4 before that. We had been together sexually for several years, it was important to both of us. I mean, from an outsider's view, if I had brought up any of these issues and said "we never talked about any of this before getting married..." I would get the whole "you NEED to talk about these things before considering marriage!" speech. That just doesn't apply here. The fact is, we talked about it, a lot. We matched up, or views and needs aligned. We looked down the road together. Now it's him who is pretty much changing and not wanting any of it anymore. I'm not experiencing any "seven year itch" to find someone knew. I married the person I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. Except, that person is most likely disappearing.

He has talked a lot about lately how he's really good at pretending about so many different things. He's almost like a child, constantly playing "pretend". He is good at pretending to be the person people want him to be. So now I think in the back of my mind, how much was he pretending with me? Maybe the guy I fell in love with never existed to begin with?

The worst part is, I went through something similar in my late teens, except with a long distance relationship. I got hurt really hard because the guy lied to me, he had a whole different persona for me than who he really was. It was like he was living double lives. I found the other one. I told my husband about all of that too. So to find out it's sort of happening again, it f'in hurts.