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All the time I read something along the lines of "My SO rejects the cd part of me"
For some, cding is an integral part of who they are.
I really don't mean to offend, but I need someone to answer me this: what is the difference between rejecting a part of who a person is, and rejecting the person?
I wouldn't be able to continue a relationship with my SO if I rejected ANY part of him. I do see it as part of the whole picture. :)
I think that some see it as a hobby that can be easily ignored and that dressing to any extent is just an indulgence.
To me it is the same as I support our military men but I do not support the war.
To clarify, I'm not talking about simply disliking or ignoring it. I mean rejection as in either refuse to acknowledge its presence, or to demand that it stop as a condition for acceptance.
Also, it seems to me much easier to separate troops from the political mess they're being exploited for than to separate a cder from his cding.
It is possible for someone to reject a part of someone's behaviour and yet not profess to rejecting the person themself. A spouse can reject cross dressing as a behaviour and yet not want to reject their partner completely. What they are trying to do is to force the person to stop something that they cannot in reality stop. It is a measure of the spouse's mis-understanding of what cross dressing is.
My ex rejected my cross dressing for 10 years before she realized that in doing so she was in effect rejecting me. She believed that by telling me that she would not accept that behaviour that somehow I could stop and all would be well again. She saw it as a sickness that could be cured, she believed that she could tell me that it was not permitted and I would stop.
It took me a decade to understand and help her understand that that was/is not possible.
My wife doesn't reject me for what I love to do... She hates my hobby but she loves me... She just wants and siged up for a husband, not a girlfriend!!!
So in my simple mind, its not a black and white line but gradational one from complete acceptance to complete rejection... I'm in the middle some where on the reject-o-meter scale and damn happy to be there!! Lol
I have not rejected my feminine side but for others, they cast it aside to make everyone else happy but sometimes that can do more harm than good.
It can affect some emotionally e.g. confusion, resentment etc
My parents and sister expected me to ditch the clothes, the make-up and the wig but i stood my ground and i'm more happier for it.
Throwing your things away won't get rid of the problem because if it's a part of you then you will more likely want to start again.
If you're strong about who you are and are true to yourself then others will accept you for it.
Jen xxxxx
Likes and dislikes can easily be thought of as a continuum. Although your SO 'hates' your 'hobby' (in the most superfluous senses of both words) it seems she has accepted it as a part of the person she loves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
But what if she didn't. What if her idea of that person she loved specifically excluded that part of you in the equation? That hypothetical person she imagined is no longer truly you.
I guess what I'm really trying to advocate is that there is no such thing as love that is "partially true".
Obviously based on that she doesn't really love me. So we should end this?? And I guess the same could be said if she votes for Obama and I do a write in for Ruddy (because he's a crossdresser too). Hahaha.
Its not a text book - cut and dry world... If it were most of us would have been born women..
Oh no no no. I didn't mean to say you should end it at all (very sorry if I came off that way)
You were able to come to the "agree to disagree" point, like most cder's relationships do.
I meant that as opposed to if she demanded you to stop cding for acceptance. That goes beyond mere disagreement and places a condition on love that's supposed to be unconditional. At least that's my viewpoint.
oops, another possible ambiguity: when I said "stop cding" above, I meant that the demand was to "never crossdress again, ever", no "don't do it around me" and "I don't want to be part of it"
Whew... I was starting to worry over who was going to get cusrody of my makeup!! If she demanded I quit crossdressing I would because I love her so much... If she demanded I quit playing ice hockey.... That damn woman is history!! :)
I don't have to like everything about my partner to accept her but I believe I have to do just that... ACCEPT. You can dislike what someone does without rejecting them. So in cases like Karren Hutton's relationship, there is a level of acceptance despite a particular dislike of an activity. Her wife isn't rejecting her, just not enjoying everything about Karren.
Example: If my partner had to get up and run every morning because it was just who they are, and I hated that I was woken up every morning at some ungodly hour, I'd still love them but seriously hate that they HAD to go running every frikken morning! lol
To clarify, I'm not talking about simply disliking or ignoring it. I mean rejection as in either refuse to acknowledge its presence, or to demand that it stop as a condition for acceptance.
:doh:
Just my two cents: Most, if not all rejection is from finding out after in the relationship or marriage, after the fact. I would like to compare it to those who find out that their loved one has become alchoholic, drug addicted, violent, etc...
Some people refuse to accept the fact, because if you accept it, then you got to deal with it. Not saying that cding is the same as any of the above, but it is something that is quite different from what the SO invisioned as being a part of the male/female role in a heterosexual relationship. I think it varies for so many as to what is acceptable and what is not. I never in a million years would have guessed that my husband was a crossdresser. Mr Macho Man in a dress may have scared me away had I known before marrying him. I don't know, I didn't get that chance to make that decision before I said "I do". But I do know now, and I still love him. I am fairly smart, or I would like to think I am. At times though, he does cross a line that I painted in the sand. It is somewhere close to the line he painted for me. We reel one another in at times.
We all have a tolerance threshold of some sort on what we would deem acceptable and what is not acceptable. So to each person is a different threshold. That is what makes us all unique, just as human beings. Some people choose to stay in a relationship knowing that there are lines we must not cross, whomever it may be. The battered spouse, the spouse of an alchoholic, the spouse of a gambler, the spouse of the shopoholic, the spouse of a cheater, the spouse of a crossdresser, the spouse who cross dresses and knows his significant other doesn't agree or rejects that part of him.
In as many a man who crossdresses and chooses to stay with that spouse, either the lines are clear and he chooses to stay in that relationship or he desides to leave, finding someone who will accept him. So, it is a choice on the part of the crossdresser and the rejecting spouse to stay together. But for whatever reason, they stay together, could we call that love? Cause from my point of view, if she stays and rejects the crossdressing, and he chooses to stay and crossdresses privately, they are both compromising to make the relationship work in my point of view.
I see many men here say that their spouses reject their crossdressing, yet they say they still love thier wife and stay. I see women who are confused about the crossdressing (finding out after months or years) and yet they come here and post and stay in the relationship, trying to figure out what to do. To those folks, I applaud you.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_forster
after i dicovered my partners CDing
a quote of mine from http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=90231Quote:
It meant trying to build a relationship with two new people, one whom I had lost trust in, and one whom I did not particularly like .
Thank you all for your replies! They have been very insightful, and I don't disagree with anything anyone said.
For the record, I am a strong believer that when this issue is present in a relationship, it should be brought to the table as quickly as feasibly possible, because serious trust issues get involved otherwise.
I sympathize with the story of a cder feeling wholly rejected when (after doing his part to earn her trust) is faced with the ultimatum 'the clothes or me'. If someone thinks I shouldn't, I'd like to hear their reasons though.
I have read your post and the responses to it and have been thinking about how to reply.
There is an old saying "hate the sin but, love the sinner". Unfortunately, there are not many people who are truely capable of this.
My experience has been: 1) my wife tried to learn about CDing and accept it; 2) she hated "it" and everything about "it"; 3) she insisted that I if I loved her, I would stop it at once and entirely; 3) we went through a period of "don't ask, don't tell"; 4) she tried again to understand and accept; 5) she decided that she could not accept it and 6) filed for and got a divorce.
Apparently, people have different levels of behavior from their SO that they can accept and still love that person. I don't know of any way to accurately learn what these limits are other than the tough school of experience.
I wish you the best.
:yt:Quote:
Originally Posted by Karren Hutton
My wife doesn't like some other things about me, too. And there are things I don't like about her, either. She doesn't have to be down with crossdressing to be worthy of love, though. She still loves me, and I her.
I dont care if others accept me. I accept me!
I can relate to this statement. I was never given 'the clothes or me option'. When I revealed this part of me to my wife of 15 years the marriage was over from that moment. She was convinced that I was a 'sicko' and a 'pervert' and wanted nothing to do with me any longer. My mistake was in not telling her before we got married. Her mistake was in not making an attempt to understand this part of me. So the marriage was over and we both went our seperate ways. To those of you who are reading this and have a wife that understands and accepts a husband who cd's I hope you know how fortunate you are. Not all women have an open mind about this issue and those that do are a treasure to have.Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_forster
Fourtunatly, for yours truly I have never had that problem.With that I must say that it is understandable that ones SO may not find or even understand what the attraction lies with us En Femme. There are those in this world that cannot accept that their SO has in fact lost what the SO saw a neccessary qualities in a person. She might see such a need by as us finding our identity, but rather losing what they found attractive in us.:2c:
In my mind nothing. How can you truly say you love someone when there is something about that person you loathe so much that you cannot accept it. This goes well beyond an annoyance, or dislike, or personal taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_forster
But in the real world many people live with imperfect arrangements because they feel this is better than nothing or they are too scared to break up a long standing relationship. So they draw up rules and agree to ignore things about each other and muddle along as best they can.
This is a dysfunctional relationship and while it may succeed in enduring if is hardly a recipe for love or happiness.
So rejecting a part of a person is rejecting the whole person but this does not mean the relationship necessarily ends, it means the parties settle for a practical but often loveless relationship
Nowhere in the 25 yrs of marriage before he "came out" did I indicate a desire for him to dress as a woman. Didn't need it; didn't want it; the thought never crossed my mind. I loved the man he chose to be. I built a life with him and loved who he was regardless of what he was wearing. Him, it, whatever you want to call that person.
Now that he wants to exclusively present as a femme personality, completely bury the male, I'm "rejecting" the person because I don't appreciate the "wonderfulness" of her as much as he does? Hmmmmmm, no, don't think so. He needs her....I don't. Sure she has given his personality some traits that I love...no denying that. I loved those things without the padded hips and fake boobs...don't need that to continue loving those traits.
I don't particularly "like" everything that my siblings or children do...but I don't stop loving them and certainly don't "reject" them because we disagree. How adolescent would that be? I can love them and not like their behavior - just as they would me. If that's dysfunctional, sign me up for the t-shirt because I believe that's what unconditional love really is.
I absolutely believe it is possible for our wives to truly love us and yet utterly reject our femme sides. My wife loved me for over 7 years with no idea that I was bi-gendered. In very real ways she fell in love with an illusion. So often we say that we're still the same person they knew before, but that's not really true. Sure, many of the qualities that she so loves about me are traditionally ascribed to females, but honestly isn't that a sexist way to look at it? I don't have to wear a dress to be a nurturing father to my children or be understanding about the extra time it takes for her to get ready to go out.
My wife loves me without condition, but that does not mean she would be happy living the rest of her life with a woman should I decide to transition. If that were to become a reality she would not reject me as a person, but she would be hard pressed to accept me as a partner and lover. The physical aspects of opposite sex attraction are powerful and certainly valid. I think sometimes our community is too quick to reject that idea.
Thanks from a lot of the GG's here ... somebody does truely understand where many of us are coning from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocelyn Renee
I appreciate your honesty and integrity thankyou again :hugs:
You have a point, however, with the exception of a few particularly selfish people, I haven't seen anyone reject that idea. Crossdressers often have the unusual curse of balancing their identity with the attraction of their partner, and have to face that fact on a daily basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jocelyn Renee
I have been blessed with never having to face that dilemma, and could not possibly imagine it being any other way. But to each their own I suppose.
Btw, to the ggs who ended up getting more than they bargained for, I totally sympathize with you. I doubly commend the ones who are willing to make compromises in he face of an act of dishonesty. All I want to do is submit my flipside advocations to peer review.
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_forster
I find it interseting that you do not view GG's as peers:eek:
Ok, please explain to me which part of what I said was dismissive to GG input so I can apologize for it immediately. All I meant was that I wanted to see how my feelings stood up to everyone's insight, not to offend anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
There implies that GG's are not your peers, you sympathise with us but want to "submit your flipside advocations to peer review" . iF I READ IT WRONG I APAOLOGIZEQuote:
Originally Posted by subaru_forster
oops. If how you highlighted it is how your mind picked it up, I can see how it would look like I meant to separate GGs from peers. I didn't mean that at all, rather I wanted to separate "peer review" from just tossing unpoppular ideas to stir a reaction. I'm sorry that I didn't say it in a clearer way. (I have this same communication problem at times IRL
Okay, he didn't tell me at first, I find that he, himself had his own issues with coming to terms with his own identity, feelings, crossdressing and purging. He has admitted that he crossdresses. Yes, it could be deemed dishonest, I was shocked to say the least when I found out after 7 years of marriage. :eek:
But the fact that he did tell me says volumes on how we have evolved as a couple! If we trully love one another, why would't either one of us make a compromise for the other. He is a non smoker, he hates my smoking, but he still loves me. Sometimes in the world of compromises, the answer could be "no". That is the risk we all take.
Yes, I got more than I bargained for, but I need no sympathy.:)
As for you trying to get flipside advocation to peer review: you lost me on that one. I agree, that sometimes what we type, how we feel at the moment, can get a total different response than what we were looking for. I blame it on this world of typing, I can't see your facial expressions, can't hear your tone of voice and can't get an immediate response to what you are trying to get accross for me/others to answer. So, you may want to rephrase the question, rewrite what it is that you are trying to get an answer to. I am simply responding to words that are typed.