Telling the SO, Bad Reaction, Giving up CD'ing

[Kate Simmons]

Good grief. This is like kicking a dead horse. I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

[Shananigans]

Something we are all missing here.

To the OP.

STOP TREATING IT LIKE SOME G.D. DISEASE!!!

Stop acting like what you are doing is wrong. Hiding it as long as you did was very wrong, but there is nothing to be done about that.

But, and I mean this, don't go to counseling to reinforce quitting.

YOU ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG.

As far as your wife is concerned, you acting like what you are doing is wrong just reinforces HER not liking it. It justifies an irrational reaction (and wanting to cut off your marriage just because of this is highly irrational.)

You have dumped a tremendous load onto her and it is going to take a long time for her to come to grips, if she can.

Now, and I may take some flack for this, but this is how I see this, especially in this day and age.

If she is unable to come to grips with what you do, then it is no longer YOUR FAULT, it is a short coming of her own.

How strong was your relationship before you did this, were there any other issues that were between you two?

But for the love of Pete stop behaving like what you are doing is something that must be corrected, that only weakens and already weak position.

BOTH OF YOU get to counseling, with someone that has dealt with this situation before. Don't go to any faith based stuff either, unless they are a more modern place that acknowledges people were created in many moulds.

Ditto to that! I can see why she might need to think about some things...but, really?? Throwing up? Not letting you touch her? Seriously? I understand she might be thinking, "What else is he hiding? Why is this happening? Is it something I did?" But, really... Throwing up? I just can't get past that.

Another thing...everyone is knocking the letter. I am not a big "feelings" person. It is my absolute NIGHTMARE to sit down and talk about how I am feeling. I'm just never good at saying what I mean. I am much better at writing it. I know my SO works about the same. This doesn't mean that we don't talk things out, but if you are having trouble saying things that need to be said, writing is a perfectly appropriate option.

I really do wish you all of the best in the world. I hope that she gives this serious thought before ruining the marriage. If I were you, I would stress the fact that I had Always been a crossdresser, but I couldn't come to terms with it. That I was still the man that she married and that I still loved her very, very much. But, that I had to be honest with her and honest with myself. Stress the fact that you are the same person that you have always been.

Secondly, you both need to go to a counselor. Not for the purpose of you quitting, but for the purpose that it is just f*cking stupid to let this come between your marriage.

[Miss Misery]

I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

Figuratively or literally?

.... she has spent 30 years thinking of her spouse a certain way and holding a certain view of the rest of the world. All of a sudden nothing is as it seems...one of those disorientating times.

I'm sorry Paisley but this "world shattering" stuff is too much drama as far as I'm concerned. When you're married for 20 - 30 yrs, you grow with each other (or are headed for divorce by now) to accept and deal with those aspects of your partners personality that you conflict with. The idea that a single aspect, like Cding could derail everything your marriage was built on shows that it was never on stable ground to begin with. To steal from Lorileah's comment comparing a long marriage to equity built up - the value of that equity IS the ability to accept and understand your partner's shortcomings and continue to love him/her ..... If you can't do that, then you never had any equity built up in the first place.

Denise,

As far as kicking a dead horse goes, this discussion has evolved into something bigger than Giorgi's particular situation and now is more about the SO/CD realtionship/why some accept and others do not/deceit .... Something that many looking tothis site want to read and or discuss. If it's kicking a dead horse then you can stop kicking anytime you want.

[Paisley GG]

I would agree that it is too much drama...I know that I would not react that way myself...but as I suggested we really do not know anything about Georgi's wife except for those couple things....based on that info, I did make an assumption that this is pretty dramatic stuff for her.

I think it is oversimplifying by referring to cd'ing as being a single aspect. It seems to mean more than one thing to most of you who are cd'ers from what I have read and it also seems to impact more than one aspect of your lives from what I also read...so is it unfair not to allow the same for the partner?

I am sure that Georgi and wife have had all sorts of issues serious and toothpaste to work through during the course of their marriage. Time will tell if they have built enough tools, skills and love to survive and even thrive through this difficult period for them.

Figuratively or literally?
I'm sorry Paisley but this "world shattering" stuff is too much drama as far as I'm concerned. When you're married for 20 - 30 yrs, you grow with each other (or are headed for divorce by now) to accept and deal with those aspects of your partners personality that you conflict with. The idea that a single aspect, like Cding could derail everything your marriage was built on shows that it was never on stable ground to begin with. To steal from Lorileah's comment comparing a long marriage to equity built up - the value of that equity IS the ability to accept and understand your partner's shortcomings and continue to love him/her ..... If you can't do that, then you never had any equity built up in the first place.

[ReineD]

Good grief. This is like kicking a dead horse. I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

True, but this thread is also a discussion about the merits of telling vs. not, which is a concern for many members here.

It's a good and necessary discussion, IMO.

[Shelly67]

Perhaps it was the straw that broke the camels back ? Maybe the people concerned share an unstable history .
We all react so differently in times of stress and emotional shock . One things clear tho - in times of such unsettled moments , I think it's a mans duty to care for his wife ... in every way possible including bare faced honesty .....
Because in the end ..... thats all we have left .

[JulieC]

I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.

I don't see it as an opposite viewpoint at all.

In the best of worlds, a crossdresser would have told a prospective wife before getting engaged. Next best is after being engaged. Then it's a big fall down to telling after being married. Then even bigger fall down after having kids. About the worst case scenario is telling when you're married with young children at home. These are all different phases to reveal your true self to your spouse.

Not telling is another way to reveal to your spouse. CDers can choose to do this. In so doing, they risk discovery by accident such as being walked in upon, discovery of femme clothes stash, discovery of pictures on the computer, posts to this forum in the browser cache, accidents in not fully removing makeup, etc. Over decades of marriage, there's a very high chance of wives finding out in these ways. There's also discovery after you're dead. On average, women live longer than men. On average, men marry women younger than themselves. Do the math; on average, most wives outlive their husbands. Eventually, your stash would be found by her and she'd be left with zillions of questions that could never be answered after you're dead.

So, while telling your wife has had severely negative outcomes, imagine what NOT telling her would have wrought. You might have been able to keep the secret until you died, but then she would probably find out anyway...and not be able to get answers. Cruel, in the least.

There's no good answers, except telling your girlfriend before you ask her to marry you. But, the vast, vast majority of CDers lack the self acceptance at younger ages to be able to tell anyone, much less a potential future wife.

The choice you made isn't an opposite viewpoint. The situation you're in now finds you wishing you hadn't told her. But, there's seriously negative outcomes to not telling her as well. Ultimately, it could have been one of the most selfish acts you could have committed, and made her a victim in the process.

Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happiness was to free the inner woman and tell the truth.

Telling your spouse isn't a path to happiness. Nobody can tell you what the best thing to do is. But, I will gladly say that I'm one who strongly believes in telling. That's strongly based on personal experience with several people, and from years of experience watching posters on this forum, negative results included. That said, I'd never advise anyone on any action in this regard if they're married with young kids at home.

Joint counseling is indeed my goal. I've promised to see a counselor to help me maintain my giving up of cd'ing. My hope is that I can convince my wife that she can benefit from going to see the counselor with me.

It's not uncommon to see wives in this situation thinking the problem isn't theirs, it's their weird husbands who want to dress up in women's clothes. This of course is the wrong approach. When you marry someone, your spouse may have a particular issue, problem, what have you. That becomes you problem by definition. If the two of you can't work towards resolution of whatever problem, there will continue to be a problem. One of you 'fixing' it alone will not fix it.

Not that CDing can be fixed...

I've chosen to give myself a male identity on this forum to help guide myself in trying to stick to my plan of submerging the crossdressing.

I hope for your sake that it works. Others have told you it won't work, and I agree. But, I say that in the hopes that you continue to understand you're up against severe odds. You're going to have to muster every bit of yourself.

Folks, I'm already in a place where I'm going to be unhappy about something. Losing my wife of 31 years will kill me. I've sat in the dark just trying to imagine living the rest of my life (I'm only 57) without her and THAT is what depresses the hell out of me.

None of us are in your shoes. None of us can tell you what the right answer is. That must come from you. All we can convey to you is advice based on our experiences. I doubt anybody here wants to tear you down.

You're in an incredibly bad situation. Getting professional help is a must in my opinion. I wish your wife would get onboard with that, but it's not going to happen. Even so, the professional counseling will help you.

A point I will make again to several who have said 'let her go'. ... If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

If you lose her, you can choose to live on. I know you can not imagine life without her. Nobody can help you see a new day past this, if she decides to leave you. You have to see it yourself. I will say it's there though. If this comes to pass, a professional counselor can help you along that path.

Maybe later the philosophical discussion of tell/don't tell can proceed. I'm sure it's too early in my story to even know the full story as mine has a long ways to go to finish playing out.

None of our stories are ended until our own lives are ended. Even for those of us who have lost our wives to death. I have an accepting wife, but my story continues on. I don't know what tomorrow holds. I don't know what ten years from now holds. Will she suddenly invert (she did once, a long time ago)? Will she grow tired of having a 'husband' that isn't 100% male, and suddenly get an urge for a 'real' man in her life? I don't know. Nobody knows those answers. Nobody knows your answers.

All we can do is go with the best information we have available to us at the time we make decisions. There isn't any 'fixing' that, and there isn't any 'wrong' in making the best decision we can with the best information we have available. That is what you did, and there was nothing 'wrong' with that, or anything that needs to be 'fixed'.

Personally, in as much as I know your situation, I think you made a fantastic decision. There's massive negative consequences to it. I do not dispute that in any respect. But, given her reaction to you telling her, if she'd found out via other means the reaction she would have had would have been several times, if not an order of magnitude, worse. The chances that you could maintain the secrecy forever were slim, at best. All it takes is one screw up. You're human.

I took one hell of a lot of courage to tell her. Now it is going to take one hell of a lot of courage to continue walking the path you're on.

[Shelly67]

Julie - I take my hat off to you .
Spot on , in every sense .

[TorieGG]

From the viewpoint of someone on the other side- my husband told me after 25 years of marriage-a month is NOT enough time to expect her to be accepting of the situation. It's a slow process for most of us- I'm still not completely comfortable after almost a year. You will need to be patient if you want things to work out. Good Luck

[Shadeauxmarie]

To tell or not to tell – that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And, by opposing, end them.

Bardon me.

[Rachel Morley]

Good grief. This is like kicking a dead horse. I think Georgi is long gone my friends.

True, but this thread is also a discussion about the merits of telling vs. not, which is a concern for many members here.

It's a good and necessary discussion, IMO.

Totally agree ... and I bet you a dollar to a cent that Georgi is still reading :2c:

[Megan70]

Georgi, after over 3500 hits(views) and 134 replies( to date) I cannot remember such a thread provoking such an immediate and varied response from your sisters here. I am taking the role of observer and neutral in this but I gotta tell you , this thread is creating alot of buzz, mainly out of empathy for you that so many of us feel bad for you to be in your situation, Last Saturday 2 other girls from this forum met for the first time at a social gathering with other t-girls at a friendly bar in our city and part of the water cooler girl talk that night was discussing your thread among our crowd, including some very supporting wives who were with us that night.
I hope if anything that this shows you Georgi that love and concern , empathy,caring and even yes some body shaking to listen, will show how much people here care about you and your situation. Some of these posts are extremely long with well meaning advice, take it or leave it, but I do hope that this thread continues with more concern and compassion that it shows as of now. I wish you well in this situation and
God Bless you and your Wife.... things WILL be alright.

Megan

[Satrana]

the ability to accept and understand your partner's shortcomings and continue to love him/her ..... If you can't do that, then you never had any equity built up in the first place.

It is a good observation and is probably shares top billing with how open or closed minded your partner is.

I think we all know that some long term relationships are no longer based on romantic love but on a comfortable friendship and shared history where both partners are too scared to consider whether it is in their best interests to stay together. A shock like this would be a wake-up call to the wife who would now seriously consider the value of the relationship to her.

Close minded people usually remain so irregardless of the arguments and any CD married to one is basically screwed. But some closed minded partners have opened their eyes and learned to be accepting and I would guess that is because there was equity left in the relationship. The wife could see the value to her remaining and so had the motivation to educate herself and change her values.

a month is NOT enough time to expect her to be accepting of the situation.

Definitely not accepting of the situation in such a short time but a month is more than long enough to have gotten over the shock and begun to ask questions, read information and have conversations with her husband. The journey to acceptance can take a long time, the question is whether the wife wants to begin that journey.

[KathyC]

Sorry to hear that..since I am a noob, I really don't know what to say.
I guess the kind of clothes you were CDing on were the kind you like to see your wife wearing right? Wait until everything cool down a bit, and find a chance to tell her that.
I used to date a girl when i was living in the States, I walked into Ann Taylor a few times and bought some clothes for her (the sales girls thought I was into CDing at that time given me dirty look somehow, but thanksful for the greens I paid).
The clothes were not her style, so I don't know she gave them away or gabbage them. We all men do have fantasy about how the women dress, but don't forget to ask yourself; do you dress lousy infront of her?
Good luck!!

[Miss Tanya]

I see many posts on here berating the wife for "irrational" puking, so I just thought I'd share my experience. I was married for six years after dating my wife for four years (ten total) when my wife found my stash of clothes. Since then, she has come to almost 100% acceptance, she actually seems to like the crossdressing more and more. My wife is a lovely, modern, rational, open-minded woman - but she puked too. She's on forums like this as well, and when you read about initial GG reactions, they are usually in shock and don't have a lot of control over their first responses. The reality of the situation usually hits them a bit later.

According to my wife, she puked because she simply did not know how to process the information. The man she thought she knew better than herself turned out to be a fantastic liar, and I wasn't just a CDer lying to his wife, it was me, lying to her. Her life took a surreal and highly unexpected turn, she has a sensitive stomach, so her reaction was to vomit.

I can only imagine what goes through the mind of a more traditional woman who has been lied to for over 31 years. Granted, after reading these posts, it is clear that she has big problems with CDing and probably a lot of ignorance about it. But I cannot imagine judging the response of any spouse who has been lied to for 31 years.

[KathyC]

+1
I agree! in this modern time it takes no lies about CDing or cosplay.
I told some of my young coworkers when I was buying makeups from them about my purposes, they all knew i am not gay & just try to have fun.
The minority or numbers of CDers make all of us group togather in a little circle (Sisters from the 50s' & up todate).
Lucky to be still young in these days.will see more revolution.
Elderly sisters will have a better time in this time also.

[melissacd]

This thread seems to have really touched a nerve with many members based on the number and quality of the responses. I think that this is a subject/experience that so many of us can relate to. Some of us got through it with relationships that are better, some got through it with relationships that died, some got through it somewhere in the middle, some won't even try and go through it and would rather continue to hide it and some tried to hide it and were caught, some tired to hide it and found that they could no longer do so and felt the cost of hiding it had become far too high.

We all have unique journey's, choices, outcomes. For me I know that the dialog, both privately and in these types of forums did one important thing, they helped me think through who I was, who I am and who I wanted to be. These discussions helped me see things that I either could not or did not want to see, things that kept me in a state of complete unhappiness and through those insights I was able to synthesize my own path. So while we may agree or disagree with specific things said here I think that we can all agree that the saying of any and all of these things helps us gain insights and grow and hoepfully move forward in our lives to a happier and more fulfilling place - I know that that has been my experience.

Melissa

[Georgi]

Wow, thanks to all for the support and kind words and suggestions. That's one of the things I really like about this forum - acceptance and positive thinking.

Georgi - it's pronounced gay-or-ghee, as in the Russian form of the male name for George. Therefore when you refer to me in the third person, it's 'he' not 'she'. Not upset with anyone, just pointing out that my personae on this board is male, help me by reinforcing that. That's part of my commitment to my wife, and a subject that's already been discussed a hundred different ways.

I did have an appointment for the wife with a counselor I was seeing, but the darn counselor had to go have a root canal and had to cancel. Then trying to get the wife to reschedule has been a real uphill battle. She continues to think it's my problem and she shouldn't be required to have to do anything. Yesterday I said, "Fine, when you can take you clothes off in front of me and let me run my hands over every square inch of your body in broad daylight, then I'll agree there is no problem." She said nothing but I later found out she did call and make an appointment, albeit three weeks in the future. Hey, it's progress.

I've told her now that I'm tired of pushing and that I'm sorry I've pushed so hard, and the next move is up to her. So I'm backing down the dialogue and the pressure with her even more than what I thought was fairly gentle recently, and the ball is in her court.

As everyone has said multiple times and I fully understand and agree, this is going to take time. We go about our daily business and talk about everything but the elephant in the room and all is good, so maybe I'll survive until something can move forward here.

Thanks to all,
Georgi

[Miss Misery]

Giorgi,

I am so glad to hear that you feel things are getting better -even just a little better.

It seems to be a fine line when "working through" the coming out process between talking/discussing the CD issue and being perceived as "obsessing" about it. So, I think you might be taking the right approach (although you're the only one who can decide that for sure) in presenting your case with some valid options and then backing off, continuing a sense of normalcy in day to day life, and giving your wife some "room" to think about the options. As you said, the ball is in her court.

Out of curiosity, does the counselor have any experience with CD/TS issues in a marriage? It might be good to make sure that whoever you use has at least some familiarity with crossdressing behavior.

Best of luck.

[Georgi]

Out of curiosity, does the counselor have any experience with CD/TS issues in a marriage? It might be good to make sure that whoever you use has at least some familiarity with crossdressing behavior.

In my post I said "I was seeing", I've seen this counsellor once, so however the verb should be expressed, so be it. I'm waiting to see her again until after my wife sees her at least once to avoid the perception that I am 'poisoning the well' and turning the counsellor any more toward me and against my wife than my wife might already perceived to be the case. If my wife meets with her, and if she agrees this counsellor is acceptable for counselling on both CD issues for her and joint marital issues for us, then I'll resume sessions with her. Or if she says no, we'll find another counsellor, then I'm also free to resume with this one.

In either case, I selected this counsellor because she listed 'Gender Identity' as one of her specialties on her web page. When I met with her in our initial session she was not at all unfriendly to the crossdressing discussion. How she'll work out as a counsellor trying to put a marriage back together rent asunder by crossdressing I guess time will tell.

Thx,
Georgi

[Miss Tanya]

Hi Georgi,

I am glad you are taking baby steps in the right direction. My wife has been reading these posts with great interest and she wanted me to tell you to be as patient and contrite as possible.

Her advice (She'll take it from here): Whether or not your wife ever accepts you, or whether or not you are able to stop CDing, you really hurt her with your revelation. Treat her extra nice (flowers and jewelry never hurt) to remind her why she really married you in the first place. Show her by your actions and your words that you are ultimately the same guy she was in love with before this revelation, and reassure her her happiness is your very first priority. You wife feels lied to and betrayed, and ultimately disrepected. She may even now see you as "the pervert guy." Even if she forgives you, trust and anger issues are bound to take their course. Always be very honest and patient.

You need to repair your image and you can actually take this opportunity to strengthen your marriage. Yes, you lied to her for a very long time, but also, you've now trusted her with your deepest, most personal secret. (This will be an even stronger point if you've never told anyone else). You can remind her why you told her (not just out of guilt) because she is your very best friend. Every single day until you see the therapist, give her a new, deeply personal compliment to remind her why she's the greatest woman you've ever met, and how fortunate you are to be married to her. Tell her how sexy and feminine she is. Try acting the way you did when you first met her and really wanted that first date. I don't care what the circumstances are, women love to be wooed. Women just want to be loved. So thank her for taking these steps with you and being willing to work this out. Extra love and care may encourage your wife to work through this situation with you. Remind her every day of the love that is in your heart, and respect all of the feelings she expresses.



(Me again) - GOOD LUCK!!!!

[Presh GG]

Georgi,

Please tell me what the devil "her stripping and allowing you to paw her all over" end quote has to do with the elephant in the room?

That struck me as a very suspect statement. Is this to show you she's just A-OK or are you playing "man" for us ?

Until this you had my support , now I'm not so sure.

It's been a MONTH after 35 years of your hideing ,But boy SHE'S really unreasonable...:brolleyes:

Nope, I can't give you my approval, so far you've come off as the most self centered in the land.

MY OPINION,
Presh GG

[Georgi]

Please tell me what the devil "her stripping and allowing you to paw her all over" end quote has to do with the elephant in the room?

I apologize if that came off as sexist or self-centered. You would have to know that prior to my revelation, we had a wonderfully open and playful sex life, with candlelit rooms or playing around on the rug in front of the fireplace (seriously). And the original comment was not about 'stripping and pawing', but was intended to be interpreted as 'mutual undressing and caressing' even though I did not use those words.

Now she won't be seen naked in front of me , and plainly says she feels uncomfortable just being naked in front of me, let alone letting me touch her naked. It's only been in the last week that I've gotten to hold her in a fully-clothed hug in daylight, and even then I can't squeeze too tightly before she starts pulling back. Her comment is that she wonders what's going on inside my head when I see her naked body, am I imagining myself as a woman?

So, my original comment to her about stripping in front of me was more about our being able to return to our original state of openness than it was about any absolute state of sexist behaviour.

Thx,
Georgi

[AKAMichelle]

Her comment is that she wonders what's going on inside my head when I see her naked body, am I imagining myself as a woman?

I understand that comment all too well. When I told my wife about cd'ing the comment above had to do with imagining myself as the woman during sex. Needless to say my marriage didn't survive. The cause of death wasn't cd'ing. Cd'ing was only a contributing factor to a marriage which was suffereing big time.

I hope your marriage is able to survive. I think the secret to telling a spouse is whether or not you have built an adequate foundation to deal with the tough times. My marriage had a lot of cracks and it couldn't hold up with the weight of one more thing.

[Gillian]

I have a similar kind of post going myself but my wife in my case has suspected for a Looooonnnnggg time! and only caught me partially dressed recently, she has gone through similar rejection of me and we currently have a semi-peace where we live parallel lives in truth not much different to the time before the incident and actually much easier on me as now she knows and knows exactly what I will do when she is at work. Do NOT mistake that with acceptance she does in NO WAY approve and would give anything for it to have been a bad dream but it isn't.

I cannot stop this compulsion need addiction call it what it seems to you as I truly do not know what to class my crossdressing as, and that is the complete truth!

I have no idea what I am going to do but after some good advice from here I think my next phase is to try and see if I can set some ground rules or this might be a step too far as well I just don't know, but time will tell.

I must jump to you defence however, there is a stroing undercurrent of owning up type threads and tell her type comments and this was almost a course of action I took and that would have placed me in the position of writing this post not you!!

I fell for you 100% and wish you every success in getting through it in time, my only piece of advice is that time is a great healer, I hope it pan's out in my case too though