A lot of time and understanding is what's in order right now. If your wife doesn't wish to talk about your crossdressing at this time then you may have to wait until such time when she's more approachable on the subject, with occasional delicate prodding along the way. Remember, you've had many years to adapt to your own cding while she's had only 3 weeks.
Start with rebuilding lost trust as a result of the deception, and bring her fully into your life.
Honesty is the key from here on out.
An ultimatum is not a sign of a mature partnership regardless of the number of years the relationship has been going on. This is bullying behavior. You and your wife need to seek counseling together in a professional situation, not from her break-room buddy.Originally Posted by joanna marie
Unfortunately, some people don't take the "for better or for worse" and "till death do we part" parts of the wedding vow seriously.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Yes crossdressing is one aspect but the lies that go with it isn't. Trust is another building block but when I wife is told years down the line that trust is shattered.
Yes this does happen and most times it happens because the cder pushes things to much, and basically it becomes all about the cder.
I am one of those SOs who after years of everything being ok, I gradually hated the cding, why, because Nigella came out of the forces and went a bit wild, dressing more often, buying things that she didn't need and clothing that she would never wear, it became all about her. Fortunately for us we worked things out.
Just don't try and load all the blame onto the SO.
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
Are you equating having a relationship before you knew someone with 15 years of misleading a wife about who you are? It certainly seems like that is your intention and the two are not at all comparable.
Over those 15 years Joanne's wife thought that she knew who her husband was what he liked and didn't like - now she finds that for the whole of that time, he has been misleading her about himself and not telling her about a major part of his personality. This is not something that happened before they knew each other, this is something that has been going on behind her back while they have been married.
Of course she will be questioning whether she ever knew her man. Marriages are supposed to be built on trust, yet Joanne didn't trust her wife with this major part of her personality.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joanne, despite what I have just written, I do truly hope that with time, patience and a whole lot of love, you can begin to restore your relationship with your wife and that this does not turn out to cause the break-up of your marriage. Others have suggested couples counselling, but only you can tell whether that is the way to go to save your marriage.
Right now, everything probably looks pretty bleak to you, but please remember you have a 40 year head-start on your wife for understanding this aspect of who you are - she has just found out in a very unexpected way. Please give her time and space to grieve the loss of who she thought you were, and continue to demonstrate to her why she is in love with you. I really hope that in the end, she will feel able to trust you once again.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist :facepalm:
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
Dresses don't make women crazy... Men make women crazy.
Since I will certainly pray for you two, I will pray that you reach a happy understanding sooner rather than later.
It's not, of course, the crossdressing that is the real issue; it's the trust that's been challenged. Can she trust you? Yes... She can trust you have always been a crossdresser and always will be. Does it matter that you didn't tell her? Yes. Does it matter so much that you crossdress? No, probably not.
My second wife, may she rest in peace, would sometimes smoke - cigars. She made a spectacle of herself when she smoked too... Rolling the cigar like an oil baron, puffing like a train, and, usually telling loud dirty jokes when she went that far...
Did I love her any less because she didn't tell me she sometimes smoked? Yes. Did I love her a lot less? No. It was just something she did because she was who she was. You take the whole person when you marry them, whether you know it or not. It's not your job to judge them, but to love them and help them along in life.
Crossdressing, like smoking, is not in most marriage vows. Love, understanding, and forgiveness, however, are always there - because that's what a marriage is and has to be. I pray it won't be long before you both start laughing again:
"You wear skirts and dresses? Oh, you silly man. Let me show you how it's done so you don't get a note from teacher..."
I would not make general statement concerning the reaction of an SO when finding out her partner is a cross-dresser. For whatever reason the CD did not openly state prior to the relationship progressing that he was a CDer, the reaction from the SO always seems to be based on perceived deceitful behavior.
Maybe in your relationship Nigella was given"permission" to come out of the bottle and eventually exceed your boundaries of tolerance or acceptance. I will only speak for me. My wife assisted in some of my CD fetish thirty plus years ago to the extent of buying some stockings and garter belts and nightgowns. She asked me to not wear the nightgowns to bed anymore, when our child was born. No problem. I accepted her request. Later on she became non accepting without me ever asking her to participate in anything. Once I asked her if she would buy me a pair of panties. We went to the store and it was a disaster. She was so uncomfortable, I never asked her to buy anything as simple as a pair of plain nylon panties. I stopped buying her nightgowns because she told me I only was thinking of how I would look in the nightgown.
My marriage has been plagued by the demons she had and told me about BEFORE we were married. Her DEMONS made her dysfunctional to some extent. I accepted those revelations. I figured, if cross dressing issues ever arose, she would be tolerant. I was not a practicing cross dresser for many years and I figured, if my CDing ever arose again, she would be accepting or at least tolerating.
Nigella may have been spending too much money on clothing and makeup, but, that is not the issue for many CDers. Our family income and assets can easily support any hobby or cross dressing activity. I literally could spend $1,000 per month on clothing without making a blip on the radar screen. Blaming intolerance on finances is baloney. I have had many friends, who waste family dollars modifying cars, racing cars, smoking dollar up the chimney, getting drunk, buying needless electronic toys, hobby of any kind. Many of them are nearing bankruptcy.
Many CDers are responsible financially and would just like to remain totally in the closet. I do NOT want to dress en femme in front of my wife, because she is not accepting. Even if she were to ask me to dress for a Halloween party, I would not because later I fear she would toss it in my face. Her greatest fear is somebody may discover my cross-dressing. Somehow cross dressing ranks up there with rape and child molesting for a lot of people.
I live in a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" relationship. We do NOT discuss my cross dressing. And, we do NOT discuss her DEMONS that have plagued our marriage. If I knew how her DEMONS would have affected our marriage, I would NOT have married the woman I love.
Maybe I need to start a thread asking "Why are you REALLY intolerant to your husband's cross-dressing?" "What makes cross dressing so intolerant to YOU?"
Of course I really do not expect to get a true sampling of answers because not many of those GG's would never even come to this site!
Yes she did but as I said we sorted things put but...the bit I have highlighted is so wrong, I hear time after time from SOs about how their SO is spending more that is supposed to be for other things, even going as far as spending the housekeeping money so please don't try and tell me it's not an issue.
Yes why don't you, I think you'd be surprised at the answers that the GGs would give, after all we have quite a few wives here on the site, ranging from all levels of acceptance, support and tolerance.
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
[SIZE="2"][SIZE="3"][SIZE="4"]stephanie47 quote:
"Maybe I need to start a thread asking "Why are you REALLY intolerant to your husband's cross-dressing?" "What makes cross dressing so intolerant to YOU?"
Of course I really do not expect to get a true sampling of answers because not many of those GG's would never even come to this site!"[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
Some GG's replyed to this heartfelt thread with sorrow, thoughtfulness and compassion, yet you still feel a need to turn your anger against them.
Why?
We tell you how it feels from our perspective and you wholeheartedly diminish and deny what we say without even listening.
Why?
Last edited by Momarie; 05-29-2011 at 02:08 PM.
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
Could we put this thread back on-track and concentrate on Joanne's issue? It has been a day so it might be nice if she could give us an update on how things are going with her.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Eryn said it very well!! This is Joanne's thread and about her problem!! The other issues may enter into it, but they are definitely not the main problem!! Too many people are getting carried away with telling others how they should think!!
The whole problem here, for Joanne and any others in the same boat is telling your wife or SO that you are a crossdresser!! My question is, why would you lie when you married her? Wht did you not tell her before you asked her to marry you? I did that with my late wife, she accepted me as is and we had almost 50 years together before cancer took her!! If she wouldn't accept you, than you 2 weren't meant for each other! It really is that simple! Lying about being a crossdresser for any number of years is only going to make things worse. A wife marries a man, or at least expects to!! My late wife always knew that I was her MAN, no matter what sort of clothes I had on! I never had any desire to be a woman, and she knew that!!
Now you, Joanne, have to convince your wife that you are still the man she married and always will!! My prayers are with both of you that you can work it out!!
Stephanie
Lady on the outside, but man underneath!
I do pray for her understanding and give her some time. I told my wife about my crossdressing about 7 months ago and she swore she would never set eyes on my female image. Last night I got all dolled up and we watched a couple movies, progress is slow but it can happen. Even if she enver accepts your fem side, I really think things will get better than they are now.
I hope Joanne will give a direct answer, but I would like to point out that not revealing something does not constitute a lie. Hindsight is always 20/20, but perhaps at the time of Joanne's marriage there may have been so many other items of greater importance that CDing simply wasn't discussed.
In my case, CDing wasn't really significant at the time of my marriage (I didn't even know that my interest in women's clothing was called "crossdressing") but it grew more significant with time. Eventually a point arrived where it was so significant that my worry about concealing it was affecting our relationship even without her knowing about my CDing. At that point we had "the talk." If things had gone differently I might well have been in Joanne's position of being discovered.
Someone with a vindictive streak would angrily chastise me for the deception they assume I visited upon my wife, but my wife is not vindictive and has helped me to understand how feelings can change in importance as we mature. For that insight I am very grateful.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
thank you everyone for your support, suggestions and prayers. It's been a month since she sound out and I have vowed to tell her the truth and not keep anymore secrets. I have hurt her deeply and it breaks by heart to see the painI've caused her. I have an excuse of why I didn't tell her but honestly, it's just an excuse. I didn't tell her because I was/am weak. I thought if I told her she'd leave me. At the time I'd proposed and promised myself I'd tell her before we set a date. Then we found out she was pregnant and I was afraid if I told her she'd have our child without marrying me and I couldn't allow that so I chose to keep my secret. As the years passed I got to know her better and knew that she would never accept me as a crossdresser so I tried to stop. We all know how well that works. 15 years later, here I am.
Well, she might have reacted the way my wife did: "Really??? Seriously?? Okay... that's interesting."
I mean, does it really have to be the end of the freakin' world?
Thanks, Joanne, for the update. Your vow of truth is a good one and it looks like your marriage is headed in the right direction.
Yes, you did the wrong thing and caused your wife unneeded pain. Continued self-recrimination will not yield any positive result. The best course is to acknowledge the error, learn from it, and then and look forward to building the best relationship possible with your wife. It will require time and effort, but I'll be that those are things you are willing to provide.
You both may find that her inadvertent discovery will yield a better, stronger relationship for you both.
Hugs, Eryn
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Yes, a man being a CD is the end of the world! I live close to downtown and right now building are crumbling, cars are randomly exploding, it is raining fire, and the doomsayers are screaming "I told you so!" It must be because someone came out as a CD.
I am now going to go hold a water hose aimed at my car in case it tries to explode.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
my heart goes out to your wife I know pretty much exactly where she is coming from at that point. 19yrs together but 15yrs of that married to one another I found out about my husbands CDing by looking more closley at a bank statment cause of a show I just watched on TV on idenity theft. Then saw many purchases on there I knew of the place but couldnt figure out for the life of me WHY we would of spent something there.. God knows he didnt buy anything for me there.. So I went upstairs knowing he had to be hiding it up there and "ta-da" found it upstairs under our bed actually locked up but I knew the combination to that lock so I unlocked it and found some of his things there.. although he had stuff hidden all over..
I felt lied to just like your wife.. 15yrs of marriage.. 19yrs together and he goes and does this stuff behind my back then has the courage each day to look at me and tell me he loves me... my head was spinning.. all the preaching from him that people need to be honest and truthful in a marriage and not lie which came from his mouth OFTEN.. and he was basically hiding the biggest secret of all in our marriage... thats when it just stabs you in the heart.. and no it doesnt heal right away if at all depending on each situation..
So I decided I would try and be accepting we set some boundries and they were tested and things just were going really fast... now only 5 1/2mo later my heart is still not healed and im not sure if its even scabbed.. many days it still feels like its bleeding with no bandaid around to help it heal..
I still have no trust when it comes to any of the CDing parts.. I feel like I cant catch my breath if I know hes going to be home for a extended period of time alone with no kids or myself and hes going to go bat wild..(but there is other reasons i wont post about why thoes feelings are there).. And now it sounds like he is going to be promoted to assistant manager at work.. which requires 12weeks of training and most of it out of town.. im scared to death about that now.. cause I know in my heart I dont trust him.. he knows what hurts me.. but i dont trust him with my heart just yet and i wont anytime soon..he will be gone for im not sure how many weeks at a time.. in a hotel room.. and i cry cause im worried even though I should trust him.. hes my husband.. I want to be SOO happy for him and his promotion cause i love him so much..hes awesome at his job and he deserves it but im being selfish now I feel cause of my worries.
So this is more opinions coming from me a GG..im not one of those wives who fully support it 100%.. i am scared 99% of the time and cry a lot about it.. but to myself so no one knows.. i try to be strong for our marriage and kids.. and now its taking a toll on my health but its what im use to doing so its hard to stop a habbit of people pleasing
Its a long process but whatever the outcome.. if you both deciede to stay together and work through this it will be a LONG process and it wont happen oven night might not even happen in a year.. but just remember.. dont get wrapped up in what the others call "pink fog" stay true to your marrige and your wife..shes probably going to have a hard time trusting right now and for awhile.. help her build up that trust in you.. do things for her so she knows your still that man she married.. and dont make promises you cant keep.. just know shes hurting.. you have had years with your CDing so its going to probably take her years to even start to understand why and know if shes going to be able to cope with it or not...
And a final note.. dont be angry at her if she cant accept it.. even if one day she thinks she can that can easily change as emotions change and it settles in....
let her know about the wives here.. we would love to have her in the FAB forum.. its helped me vent so much and talk to others.. trust me we all have different levels of acceptance so we arnt going to gang up on her or anything.. i would love to talk to your wife and let her know i am here if she ever needs to vent to someone who has been through what she has.
I love the fact that my husband can piss me off and make me laugh within seconds of each other!
I can handle being alone, but doesn't want to be married and feeling alone.
The only reason the grass looks greener on the other side is because you don't have to mow that lawn.
Husbands are like children, they behave best when they are sleeping.
It's always nice when your husband just looks at you and tells you out of the blue, "You are Beautiful"
My wife found my clothes about 6 weeks ago. Although she is a little uncomfortable yet, she doesn't mind painted toenails, satin panties (cotton bikini panties when it's really hot), and femme nightwear. I remind her every day that she is my whole world, that I love her deeply, and that I am and always will be her man. I have no desire to transition, I just like the clothes. We celebrated our 27th anniversary this week. I told her I would like a nighty, but she told me (teary eyed) that she looked at them, but couldn't bring herself to buy one for me. She washes all my clothes, skirts, panties, sport bras, etc. for me with no objections. She has asked me to not wear a skirt or dress in front of her, and I have no problem with that.
Since she found out, our lives have been much better. We are closer than ever, and we communicate better. I have been happier than I have ever been. I know that deep down she wishes that I wasn't TG, and sometimes, so do I. But it is a part of me that will never go away. I am trying to take things really slow for her sake. I have explained to her how good I feel when I am dressed. I tell her all the time that if she wants me to wear men's underwear (esp. when being intimate) that I will. She tells me that whatever makes me feel good is fine with her. I have a very special lady!
I hope it works out for you like it did for me. Good luck, and keep us posted.
Life's too short to not be enjoyed! Live each day to the fullest!
I would feel really pissed off and disrespected if i married someone for 15 years, and the whole time they were keeping their thoughts to themselves, changing their words to hide secrets, and opening up more to random people on the internet than to me.
what am i chopped liver? you can't trust me? why the hell did you even marry me then.
you know they have you say "the truth, the whole truth" when you take an oath, because contrary to what people on here might say, withholding the truth is a form of a lie
there is a big difference between not stating something from your past, and actively deleting internet history, hiding spending, and tucking away clothes or lieing about what you did when you two weren't together when she asks
Last edited by silhouette; 06-03-2011 at 08:33 PM.
What I find interesting is the fact that when she asked you if the site was yours, you said, "Yes". When she asked you if you were a crossdresser, you said, "Yes". You even told her how long you'd been dressing.
But you DID NOT LIE! That's a major plus in your favor.
Is it a shock to her?? Of course. Will it take time?? Oh Yeah! Can it be overcome? Yep, it can be.
If you can sit down with her to discuss this part of you, you might bring up the fact that you didn't 'ask' to be a CDer, you didn't beg God to give you the feminine side you have, at birth (or even before). What she fell in love with when she fell in love with you included the sensitivity of your feminine side. The gentle side of you that allows you to be understanding when she (or your kids) needs it. Assure her that she isn't competing with the feminine side of your personality, nor that the feminine part that is inside you makes you any less a man nor does it make her any less a woman in your life. I can only assume that you enjoy doing 'guy things' and are handy around the house as well.
The idea of asking her to see a gender therapist with you is a solid one as well. Pick a real professional though, someone who has lots of experience in counseling transgendered couples.
Good luck to you.
I think when asked if it was him going to the CD site and then saying yes I cross dress doesnt matter if he anwered "yes" to it or not.. thats not what the issue is.. what was he suppose to say "oh our daughter must have been on that site yeah shes the CDer".. the wife knew she just wanted to hear him say yes.. if he would of said No she would of knew anyways.
I really dont like when talking especially at first "well I didnt ask to be a CDer" talk.. you know my reply as a GG "Well I didnt ask to be married to someone who lied to me everyday from the time we knew eachother of who he really is and how he really feels"... or I doubt the wife begged for God to give her issues like this in a marriage when she thought she could trust her husband..
Mainly I am trying to say dont say directly out "Well I didnt ask to be this way"... those words never and dont work for me when trying to find comfort.. and thats what the wife needs right now is comfort
I love the fact that my husband can piss me off and make me laugh within seconds of each other!
I can handle being alone, but doesn't want to be married and feeling alone.
The only reason the grass looks greener on the other side is because you don't have to mow that lawn.
Husbands are like children, they behave best when they are sleeping.
It's always nice when your husband just looks at you and tells you out of the blue, "You are Beautiful"
I'm not going to put these questions to any particular SO, but just send them out into the ether as something to think about.
Do you have any sympathy at all for the reasons why he felt like he had to hide that part of himself from the world? Are you sad at all for the years that the two of you might have spent growing closer if you had known this about him? Or are you just angry that you wasted so many years on a defective husband, and are now stuck in a marriage that you don't want?
Last edited by Sophie86; 06-03-2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Replaced inappropriate word.
I see several references to "lying" in recent posts.
My question is, did your SO truly lie or did he simply choose to keep this facet of his personality to himself?
Keeping the secret is usually done to avoid hurting the person he dearly loves and is afraid of losing. It is not an act with malicious intent.
My opinion it is lying.. if you cant share something with your SO or soon to be SO of who you are as a whole person thats not telling the whole truth which ends up being a lie..that person thinks they then know you and lives years and years with you thinking they know everything about you.. you share everything and do everything together.. over the years you do things to cover up that lie.. hide clothing etc so your SO wont find out etc...it turns into more then a secret and then once its found it causes a lot of pain from both sides...just like any lie does.. a lie is a cover up which someone believes is to protect someone or themselves.. lies dont always have malicious intent to them.
I love the fact that my husband can piss me off and make me laugh within seconds of each other!
I can handle being alone, but doesn't want to be married and feeling alone.
The only reason the grass looks greener on the other side is because you don't have to mow that lawn.
Husbands are like children, they behave best when they are sleeping.
It's always nice when your husband just looks at you and tells you out of the blue, "You are Beautiful"
Hi SweetPea, thank you for sharing this with us, I know it took a lot of courage to open yourself up like that, but you have done us a great service by showing us how this sort of discovery can affect someone.
Although you say that you don't support 100% of the time, you have proved what an outstanding person you are by joining these forums to try to understand more and by being willing to share your experience with us.
I agree that when put like that it can sound confrontational and is unlikely to help a wife to come to terms with the discovery, but said in the right way and in the right context, it is an important point to convey that this is not some kind of hobby but part of the makeup of who the cross-dresser is.
For me, the most important thing that any cross-dresser can do when having "the talk" with their wife is to listen to her feelings and not try to win the argument - which is a fairly natural thing for most guys to do but would be wrong in this context.
You do not have to lie with malicious intent to deceive someone. Whether you call it lying or "keeping the secret" the fact is that you are not being honest with your wife about who you are. Relationships work on trust, yet time after time I see cross-dressers saying (in different words) "I did not trust my wife enough to tell her about my cross-dressing". Sometimes it is phrased as a fear of rejection, but it still boils down to the same thing, and yet these same cross-dressers are often upset when a wife discovers what the cross-dresser has been hiding for so many years and feels that her trust has been abused.
Joanne, I am not tryiong to condemn you, and I truly hope that you can rebuild the trust between you and your wife, it will take a lot of work on both sides, but please try to be sensitive to her feelings and try to remember that you have had a lifetime to come to terms with yourself as a cross-dresser, your wife has only just discovered this facet of who you are. Please try to be patient with her and don't forget to give her plenty of practical reminders of why she loves you in deeds rather than in words.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist :facepalm:
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
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