JodyCD:
"I have nipples Gregg, could you milk me?" -Jack Burns (Meet the Parents)
You funny.....
We wike u.....:mooning:
JodyCD:
"I have nipples Gregg, could you milk me?" -Jack Burns (Meet the Parents)
You funny.....
We wike u.....:mooning:
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
@JamieTG's~SO, Glad to have amused! :D
Last edited by JulieK1980; 06-04-2011 at 08:12 PM. Reason: No longer relevant
ALAAAAAAAAARMMMMM (RIIIIIIIIIIIIING) Flood tanks!!!! LEt's get out of here chief!!!!!
Yea. I am staying clear of this one like a submarine would steer clear of a destroyer!!!
"I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
Tree beard. Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.
And that is a data set of....................ummm.......................2 .Originally Posted by Nicole Erin
You didn't simply "think" you wanted to spend the rest of your life with someone, you vowed that you would. If you later reneged on that vow then you lied, not the marriage.
A lot of us take those vows much more seriously than that.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Twould have been a whole lot less marriages in this wicked old world, if people told the good, bad, and ugly, before marriage. Our world has thrived on lying, or putting up the "false self". I have been to so many weddings, and so many are divorced now! There are no "knights in shining armor", or Prince Charmings", or "Cinderellas". We may be charming, smart, nice, and sexy, but, we all tend to hide the dark side. John Bradshaw used to talk about this. I don't think i have been married, because i was too honest about my faults. "Confidence" is what women want in a man. But, confidence can be deceptive. We all ought to be able to be real, tell the good, bad, and ugly about ourselves, and still be accepted, and to be married. Most everyone waits until after marriage, for the hid stuff to come out. The world is living a lot of lies!
Jamie, this seems like the pot calling the kettle black. Good grief! Freedom of speech is allowed in this country and certainly on this website. Just b/c someone doesn't see eye to eye with you and has a different viewpoint is no reason to call for them to be silenced...
Yikes! What happened to you and why are you so bitter when none of this pertains to you? Did anyone address you directly? If this bothers you please move on to the next post and kindly remove your claws. People are free to express their opinions and shouldn't be subject to character attacks... Lighten up..."I sometimes poop, and it smells really bad." (Seriously, I've heard of women who won't poop within a mile of their boyfriend.)
"During my period, I can be as bitchy as I like, and you're supposed to just say 'yes ma'am,' and bring me chocolate."
"I have no sense of humor and generally hate life until sometime after lunch."
"I'm maintaining this svelte figure by living on caffeine, air, and a high degree of anxiety. Later, when I feel truly loved, I will relax and start to eat until I'm roughly twice my current size. Then, I'll demand constant affirmation that you love my new figure as much as you ever loved that earlier one."
Silly silly me.....
You are all right of course, this is exactly how all woman are.
How could I ever read this and think it was bashing women and wives?
I must have been distracted by the breeze blowing up my skirt on my freshly shaven legs.
Silly silly women, how could you accuse your man (oops, sorry LADY) of lying!
Come on girls fess up, you know all we ever talk about, all we ever think about in our pretty silly heads is how pretty our panties are (Pantie Threads WHOOO-HOOOO) and who among us has the biggest nipples!
Sorry, I have to go and shave my back now.
Toodles!
It's clothes and makeup. Unless the person wishes to transition that's all it is. Why does everything have to be so serious?
Sophie, I love ya', but speaking from experience, post topics like this in the Private GM Forum...
Last edited by Nigella; 06-05-2011 at 02:45 AM.
I hate it when things get ugly like this! Frankly, this "CD'ing is lying/not lying" does not have an answer. It is going to be different in every situation/relationship.
Generally speaking, I am in the honesty camp, but I get the impression that some SO's REALLY don't get what it is like to have grown up as a CD or with transgender feelings. You are a small boy 6, 7, 8 years old and you are confronted with circumstances that a) you have no control over; b) everyone and everything tells you it is bad, wrong, evil, etc.; and c) you can't discuss with ANYONE. (Imagine being a young girl at that age and being confronted by something that monumental that you can't even discuss with your mom or dad.) As the years go by, you bury these feelings deeper and deeper and deeper. This goes on your entire life. Maybe you have tried to tell someone about this and you have been ridiculed, abandoned, etc. Or worse. Like I said, I think honesty is the best policy but I think that if your husband comes out to you after marriage or worse, you discover it yourself, you need to think about this. It is not a pass but you need to think about it.
To the GG's, thanks again for your posts. I think that the key is we really need to make an effort to understand each other. I know for me, as a crossdresser, I have a hard time seeing what the big deal is BUT I sure get the fact that whether I get it or not, it IS a big deal for some of you and that is enough.
Last edited by Debglam; 06-05-2011 at 08:17 PM.
Sophie...I just LOVE THIS LIST ! it is so so true...
This is true for SOs of CDers, but I believe in Sandra's case it was quite a lot more. You might want to cut her a little slack.
Deb, you've hit the nail on the head. Sometimes this stuff gets buried so deep that it doesn't see the light of day until someone is in their 40s, or 50s. In the meantime, life happens, including marriages. When CDing does emerge, the guilt and revulsion are still there which doesn't exactly assist communication with one's spouse. Remember, men are not trained to be communicators. We're conditioned to be competitive and to not show any possible weakness.
I cannot think of a mirroring situation of the same emotional severity that affects GGs. That makes it very difficult to explain the full magnitude of the concept to them.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Just my tuppence worth here,
If you have been able to suppress the desire to dress after you have got married and have not put on any clothing since that day, then no you can't be lying, it is a part of your life that is over and TBPH has no bearing on your future life, just as anything from your SO's past which has no bearing on your life together, is irrelevant.
However, if you have not been able to suppress the desire or the desire returns after a while and you don't share this aspect with your SO, then yes you are lying.
Quite often we hear that she didn't tell me this, or that, just as I have not told her this or that. If it will not affect your relationship, then why should you need to share it, if it will affect your relationship, then of course you should tell.
We all have a few skeletons in the closet, Sandra knows about a part of my past, but not the whole story, why, simply because I knew that she would have found out one way or another, simply because it is something I cannot hide. Why not the whole story, well simple again, it won't happen again and it has no impact on us as a couple.
So as a final note, think about what you are hiding, will it have an impact on your relationship if it came into the open? Are you prepared to take the consequences if it has an impact but you have kept it quite. Of course this goes for both sides in the relationship.
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
Seriously? I sound bitter? I have a great relationship with my wife. I don't have anything to be bitter about. I'm just a little tired of having fingers wagged in my face about the fact that I didn't tell my wife when we got together that I occasionally liked to put on women's clothing. She's never chided me about it once, so I'm amazed that other women make such a big deal over it. I don't think it's the lying that's got them bunched. I think if they could in any way be okay with the activity itself, the lying would just be "oh well." The truth is, they're squicked out by guys who dress like women, and they believe that their husbands sold them a faulty set of goods. That's fine if that's how they feel, but why would they want to hang out here and go on and on about how betrayed they feel? We understand from a very early age that acceptance is conditional upon us keeping this facet of ourselves a deep dark secret. That message comes at us from every direction. We consider it a matter of self-preservation that we not tell our secret. When we finally do tell that person closest to us-- or they find it out on their own--there are two ways they can react. Either it's "Oh honey, you never had to keep this a secret. I love you just like you are;" or it's, "OMFG!! All these years of lying!!! You've BETRAYED me!!!" The latter sends the message loud and clear: "If I had known this, I never would have married you." Well okay. But don't sit here and pretend it's about the lying.
Crossdressing is more serious, or being transsexual is more serious? If you do mean crossdressing, then why is it a serious problem?
Last edited by Nigella; 06-05-2011 at 05:31 AM.
As has been said before, this topic is done on a regular basis and there will never be a common ground.
There will be those, like me who believes that it is right to share this aspect of my life because it has an impact on our life together.
There will be those, who like the OP believes that is is not a topic worth discussing with their SO.
OK so who is right, well no-one and everyone, we all do things which we feel is right for our own situation. So why not call a truce, stop the war and all live in peace, Oh Damn, I forgot we are the human race, we all want to be in the right, we all want to make sure our own opinion is the one that is shouted the loudest.
On a final note, at least for now, get over it and move on.
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
Thank you for understanding, Mimi. Your SO is very lucky to have you.
Thank you for noticing that I was trying to be humorous with it. The stereotypes I used were taken from pretty much every stand up comedian that I've heard in the past 30 years. I was not describing my relationship with my wife, although a few of those things apply to some degree. The main thing is that none of them were deal breakers. It's been a process of discovery, but we've always been committed to dealing with problems as they come up and moving forward together.
That's not a fair characterization of what I said.
Here's the point: This aspect of myself was such a deep dark secret that it would have required a good amount of torture to drag it out of me. I wasn't just hiding it from my wife, I was hiding it from everyone. My dad did his best to brow beat every bit of femininity out of me. Instead, I buried it, and hid it from everyone but myself. Everyone. My wife and I had been married for 14 years when I finally told her. Instead of being outraged that I had hid it all those years, she was glad that I trusted her enough to finally tell her. That's the difference in attitude that I'm talking about. I believe that women who obsess over the lying are really upset about the dressing itself, and are using the lying as a more acceptable thing to beat us up over. That's my position right there, all humor aside.
I'll tell you why it's serious because for most of the wives they have had the bottom drop out of their world, so don't go telling everyone it's clothes and makeup it goes a heck of a lot deeper. If you think that cding is not serious for any SO then try asking some of the SO's on here about how serious it is.
As for posting this in the GM yeah right, it appears that some members on here just don't like people disagreeing with them, so Phoebe is that why you suggested this?.
It's ok Eryn
Firstly I did not say it was a problem I said it was more serious. Both are serious and keeping an SO in the dark about either is wrong.
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
I did lie and it was painful for my partner. And I agree with her, it was wrong. It is scary to be honest about being CD or TG but I do believe it is the best way if you really do care for the other person. Sooner or later it is all most always going to come out anyway.
Yes Yes Yes, I get it....
I am the big bad bitter Barbie bitch.
I am just a silly SO and even worse a GG.
So flame away....
Oh...by the way, my sweet Jim is wonderful, he has suffered and struggled his whole life.
I adore him just the way he is.
Many of you understand I feel very protective of GG SO's who have yet to find thier voice.
They are just beginning this journey....and it is not easy for them.
Because despite your mass of rationalzations....it IS more than JUST clothes.
When I read absolute sterotypical crap....I respond on thier behalf.
So again, flame away. :mooning:
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
Sorry, no flames here. It would be easier to carry on a reasonable discussion if you actually addressed the issues we brought up rather than simply dismissing them out of hand. I went to considerable effort here and in other threads to express the years of pain, guilt, and self-recrimination that I went through but you simply dismissed it as a "mass of rationalizations." Are your feelings the only ones that count here?
It might be more illuminating if you gave us your thoughts on the following:
Exactly why is it more than just clothes?
Why is not discussing an unpleasant topic considering lying?
Does not discussing the unpleasant topic mean that a CDer does not truly love his wife?
In addition, Sandra has said that the revelation of CDing was akin to "the bottom dropping out" of the SO's life. Perhaps you can give us some insight as to why CDing carries such great impact when compared to other common deceptions that husbands inflict upon their wives. For example, a husband might say that he has to work overtime on Wednesdays and is actually having a few drinks with his buddies at a bowling alley. Lying to his wife about this is certainly deceitful and wrong and in fact he is putting himself in more danger with this act than he would by privately CDing. However, I have a feeling that revelation of the CDing would have a much greater impact on the wife than revelation of the illicit drinking and bowling. Why do you think this is?
Last edited by Eryn; 06-05-2011 at 06:09 PM.
If someone asked me my advice, I would say go ahead and tell your wife before getting married. You're right. Sooner or later, it will most likely come out, and it's best to know where she stands beforehand. That's the ideal. We both know why we fell short of that ideal, though, and how hard we've had to struggle just to be honest with ourselves, much less anyone else.
What about if you've been married for 35+ years? How do you do it then? Please ?
Anna x
Anna x
I have no idea. We had been married 14 yrs when I told my wife. Her attitude towards all things sexual was undergoing a major change for the better, so it was the perfect time for me to talk to her about it. She has told me that if I had been honest with her at the beginning, it might have freaked her out too much, so waiting turned out to be for the best. Of course, if she had never gone through that change, I might still be in the closet with her, and that would really suck. So I still agree that telling up front is the ideal thing to do. I was just fortunate that things worked out well for me. I wish you luck, and wish I had some good advice for you, but I don't know how to approach the subject cold like that.
After 35+ years I'd expect that your marriage is pretty stable. There have been a few potholes in the road of life and this one is really no different.
Is this something that is really bothering you? Is it affecting your relationship? I'm sure that it is. Let's go with that.
The approach I suggest is to wait until you are in private, relaxed, and have a lot of free time for discussion. This is not something you wish to combine with another crisis! When the time is right, you simply say:
"Dear, I have something that is really bothering me and I would like to discuss it with you."
If she is a caring person, this will warn her that something important is at hand and will put her in the mindset to be helpful.
Now the ball is certainly in your court. Be honest and use simple language, not jargon. Don't say "I'm a crossdresser" because she may not know exactly what that means. Say "I sometimes, when nobody else is around, like to wear women's clothing." Be ready to answer the Big Questions. Remind her that you love her, have always loved her, and will continue to love her, no matter what happens. After you have your say, give time for her thoughts. She may have a lot, she may have none. It's likely that she will need considerable time to fully assimilate the concept Hold her and give her reassurance.
That's the start. From there you have to play it as it goes. At this point, if you are tempted to withhold anything remember how hard it was to start this conversation. Put it all on the table.
That's pretty much how I would have played it in a perfect world. I did pretty much this, but with a few stumbles along the way. Learn from my errors.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Sorry, no flames here. It would be easier to carry on a reasonable discussion if you actually addressed the issues we brought up rather than simply dismissing them out of hand. I went to considerable effort here and in other threads to express the years of pain, guilt, and self-recrimination that I went through but you simply dismissed it as a "mass of rationalizations." Are your feelings the only ones that count here?
Eryn,
Perhaps if you had read mine and many other GG's posts, you would realize how GGs and thier feelings are routinely dismissed around here.
It's rich to accuse us of that.
How many times have GGs spilled thier guts in heartfelt painful posts, only to have thier pain diminished and ignored?
Yet you clamor for a "reasonable discussion"....in such a dismissive manner.
You are not the only one to have ever shed a tear dear.
Last edited by Momarie; 06-05-2011 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Eryn used the word CLAMOR twice in one post...odd, then I noticed I had spelled it incorrectly. Her way of belittleing me?
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
Sorry, but the way I see it, it is only serious because society deems it so. There are no health risks, no possibility of diseases being spread (unless the cding is done for reasons other than the clothing and styles). The fact is, for those like myself that just like the styles, would like more freedom in what I can wear for everyday life, and have no desire to attract someone under false pretenses, or have my sex changed, get kinda irked by being told "it is more than just the clothes". For me, that is exactly it. I would like to attract a female with an open mind that can see beyond or even fully accept the styles, and she herself have fun with gender presentation.I'll tell you why it's serious because for most of the wives they have had the bottom drop out of their world, so don't go telling everyone it's clothes and makeup it goes a heck of a lot deeper. If you think that cding is not serious for any SO then try asking some of the SO's on here about how serious it is.
If society did not make it into such a taboo, MANY times worse than oh let's see...Adultery. (Do you think Newt would be still in government if he came out as a CD opposed to a stinking adulterer?) Cding would just be another fringe hobby, that hurts no one, or at most a personal style.
"I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
Tree beard. Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.
No I am not. My wife shed quite a few with me and we each listened as best we could to the other. I've also read with interest many posts on this forum, both those by CDers and those by GGs. A lot of pain has been expressed. I do not believe that I have diminished or ignored anybody, either GG or CD. Please point out any post where I have done so and I will correct it immediately.Eryn,
Perhaps if you had read mine and many other GG's posts, you would realize how GGs and thier feelings are routinely dismissed around here.
It's rich to accuse us of that.
How many times have GGs spilled thier guts in heartfelt painful posts, only to have thier pain diminished and ignored?
Yet you clammer for a "reasonable discussion"....in such a dismissive manner.
You are not the only one to have ever shed a tear dear.
In this thread I was interested in your feelings about specific topics. Rather than simply accusing me of further clamoring, perhaps it would be better to rise above my clamor and discuss the topics.
Eryn
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
I've really wanted to stay out of this one, but I feel the need to throw my .02 worth in.
Phthos, it is a serious issue for SO's. I completely understand where they are coming from on this. It runs much deeper than just clothes or makeup for many cd's. Just read some of the posts in other threads. There are a multitude of different personalities represented here.
Some are content to simply wear what they wish to. Others go much further. This isn't a one size fits all problem, or issue.
On the other hand, I think that a lot of cd's here push the boundries more than any GG could tolerate. I also think that some of the GG's here are much too harsh on some things. This thread has actually raised my blood pressure with a few of the posts. I've sensed a lot of hostility towards cd's on this one. Before I start rambling because my thoughts aren't organized properly on this at the moment, let me say this.....................
I do not believe we have all lied and deceived our spouses by not telling them about this side of us before marriage.
Some, if not most of us truely believed that by getting married, this part of us would go away. We know now that it will be with us for all of our days. Except for the younger members here, please keep in mind that we were truely alone in this. We had no internet to discover that there were many others like us. We were honest to God, alone with our feelings. The guilt. The shame. The wondering what the hell was wrong with us. We have carried this burden with us since childhood.
I completely understand that it is not easy for a wife to find this out about her husband. Please try to understand what we have gone through for many many years. It's not easy on either side of the fence.
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