How many of us are JUST crossdressers?

[Sara Jessica]

...She screams about how much she hates that crossdressers have it so much easier than us.

Yes, my life is infinitely easier if I were "just a crossdresser". Most importantly, my wife wouldn't have to worry every day if the bell is going to go off inside my head which could lead me headlong into transition.

Ah. But there's an end in sight for you. One day you will be transitioned, you'll have gotten past all this, and you will fit nicely as a binary woman in a binary world.

But for those of us on a middle path, there is no end in sight. Only a lifetime of balance, seeking fulfillment, and depending on one's degree of "out-ness", subterfuge (which in my case is the stealth involved to keep my children shielded from having to know about this side of me and what it takes to explain away outings, not to mention the pain-in-the-ass to simply get out the door in the first place).

However, crossdressers (depending on the degree of their need to express themselves, and depending on the acceptance of their families), face different yet just as difficult challenges. For life. We do not live in a world that accepts men who need to express femininity nor does the world accept people who experience a non-binary mixture of gender identity. Crossdressers experience the frustration of not feeling free to express themselves, and they also lose jobs and families.

I know this isn't lost upon you given this is more of a "CD" discussion but those who identify as TS also lose much when it comes to family/friends/careers. Your comment made me think which side has it worse in that department. I would suggest that the transitioning individual has more to lose based solely on the fact that they are pretty much out to everyone in the process of transition. However, I don't want to discount or trivialize the loss on the CD side. These pages are littered with such loss, mostly in spousal or dating relationships where the SO has understandable issues in accepting a gender anomaly in her gender binary world. I would not necessarily suggest that loss is more profound on either side, whether TS or CD or somewhere in-between, but from a practical standpoint, the loss should be more avoidable (or at least easier managed) on the CD side. Regardless, it's sad that loss even has to be part of the equation.

[Sweet Caroline]

The term "cross dresser" is fine with me. Transvestite was a medical term used by Shrinks in the 1950's before they knew anything about us.
The biggest confusion of all from everyone is because we want to dress and appear as a woman that we secretly desire to be a woman, which is not always true. The last thing I want to be is an "Old Lady". I prefer to grow older as a man, and keep my sweet Caroline to myself. The other confusion is dressed as a woman we want sex from a man, that might hold true for Gay Cross dressers, I don't really know. Cross dressing is not about sex, however it has a self erotic side we can't honestly deny.

[Tess]

I normally avoid these esoteric debates on the words crossdresser and transgender. Just this once I let myself be sucked in and decided to look at how these words were defined by several on line dictionaries. Its no wonder that we are confused or have different views of their meaning when the dictionaries can't even agree. Quote the dictionary that has the definition that fits your personal view. What I did learn was that most defined transgender more narrowly and not inclusive of those who do not want to be a different gender in whole or in part. That certainly fits my view that I'm just a crossdresser and not transgender. It also seems to fit, in my opinion, the world view of what these terms mean. Its understandable that any relatively small group in a large population, like the transgendered, would want to feel they are less different by widening the definition of their situation. My take away from all this is that transgendered is wanting to BE a different gender in whole or in part while crossdressers want to occasionally dress like a different gender and have a jolly good time.

[ReineD]

A desire to crossdress may or may not include a desire to express one's own sense of femininity, but that does not have to translate into "gender identification".

Veronica, I don't mean to ignore your post. Thank you for stating it so well, I will take some time to digest everything you've said.

[busker]

But knowledge also evolves, particularly our understanding of gender, which we now believe is not binary. Something drives a genetic male to wish to transcend the culturally defined norms of masculinity in order to express femininity, so what is it? Why is there a need to feel feminine, if it isn't a degree of feminine gender identification, even if this ebbs and flows and even if the primary gender ID is male?

To say that the act of crossdressing is simply something that one does and is not unlike engaging in a hobby or playing a sport does not acknowledge the deeper psychological motives for choosing to temporarily change or transcend something that is fundamental to our core sense of who we are, namely our gender.



I'm a transmoderator! I switch back and forth. :D

Seriously, sometimes I'm purely a mod trying to keep the peace (post #96), sometimes I post my opinion purely as a member (#101), and sometimes it's hard to separate since as an individual I dislike strife and I post as both (#108).

So maybe I'm a bimod, or a dualmod. lol

I do care about all the members here no matter their gender identity and I also consider the people lurking who haven't joined yet (the CDs, TSs, and their wives/husbands). As both a mod and as a member, I believe in putting our best face forward to the public at large and I dislike it when threads disintegrate because members have forgotten that everyone has a right to their opinion, as long as it is expressed respectfully. This is why I have no qualms about closing a thread that I've participated in as a member, when it becomes a free for all.

This may be a TAD off topic but I think that you are suggesting that hobbies are valueless/mindless and I think that that could be not seeing them in their context--perhaps like some see just plain crossdressing. remember that most "scientists of the earlier centuries were "hobbyists", not formally/university trained as many of disciplines that we now have were added towards the end of the 19th century as education itself changed . Darwin, for example studied medicine (didn't complete course, ) and theology but basically learned the natural sciences doing museum work, reading, etc. He was, strictly speaking an "amateur-hobbyist" scientist. Most hobbies require skills, knowledge and other things that do transcend daily life activities. While some people have have turned their hobbies into a profession, they still began as hobbies.
Additionally, I have read in this thread I believe at least one person who said she no longer needs to dress to "transcend" her gender, so that dressing as an act itself is unimportant. What of the phrase that gender is in the mind, sex between the legs. This could the case for "just crossdressers" where there is no transcendence (though personally I do think that in some way we do change even if we are not on the road to thailand.) It could be like the "icing on the cake", the cake itself being the defining state of being. How does one transcend oneself, a subjective viewpoint that is unique in the world?

[Davena Doll]

Well if you do the math. _________ 2 Ya Im only a crossdresser too.
TS / TV MEN
V ____ . ( _____ ) =
CD CD

[AngelaKelly<3]

I see myself as being "transgendered" more than JUST a crossdresser. I know it all comes under the transgendered unberella and all that, but prefer using "transgendered" to "crossdresser".

[diannecourtney]

Sorry to hear of the negatives, but this world is full of the. Oh I love my stuff and if it lead somewhere, I'd appreciate it and do the necessary changes, but I'd be damned if anyone of us bedeviled our Fraddie, queer and all. Keep up the good work!!!!

[danielletorresani]

I'm "just a crossdresser", too! I have no desire to transition (though I would love to do it for a month or two if I could change back again) and actually love being a man! I just happen to have times that I like to dress up in lingerie and sexy dresses.

[Stephanie47]

I'm "Just A Cross Dresser" and have absolutely no desire to transition to a woman. Cross dressing brings me relief from stress. I truly believe everyone has some degree of femininity in their personalities. With me, Stephanie comes out to give her twin brother time away from the stresses of the world and prior bad experiences which haunt him on occasion. That's one reason for confining my cross dressing to my home. As a cross dresser who cannot 'pass,' I would not get the feeling of peace if I were out in public. For me cross dressing is my own private world. When Stephanie has given her twin brother enough down time, he will reappear. There are times when I have had days of opportunity to be en femme, Stephanie has not appeared. It is not a compulsive disorder.

[Jessica S]

Just thinking. I consider myself a crossdresser and not transgender. I am a man who likes to wear women's clothes. I don't feel like I have changed gender(sex). I might pretend to be female, but the key word is pretend. I know I am not nor do I want to be a women.

Looking at the some of post about how the words "crossdress and transgender" and any of their forms are used. I think of the news reports of men that dress a women trying to either misdirect or hide. The news never says the individual was being transgeder to diguise himself it is alway he was crossdressed. There is no inference that the man wanted to change geneder.

I know it is not the best example of a person who crossdressed but it is one that kind of discribes what we have be discussing between "crossdress and transgender".

[NicoleScott]

Are you JUST a crossdresser?

No. Many of us are men who like to occasionally wear women's clothes, shoes, wigs, makeup, etc. We are THE crossdressers. The rest are JUST gender-confused, JUST gender-variant, JUST Transsexual, or JUST whatever.

[Sara Jessica]

Looking at the some of post about how the words "crossdress and transgender" and any of their forms are used. I think of the news reports of men that dress a women trying to either misdirect or hide. The news never says the individual was being transgeder to diguise himself it is alway he was crossdressed. There is no inference that the man wanted to change geneder.

This is because based on outward appearances, Muggles really have no idea how one personally identifies unless they are told. Appearance offers few clues, if any at all, so they default to their most familiar terminology, crossdresser or transvestite, as their chosen word of description.

[Nancie64]

I have to add Nancie to just the crossdresser list. Have been dressing since my mid teens and now in my mid 60's and can't say I every had thought of any changes. I love just dressing when I can, weather permitting,(100 degrees today). I too have had some not very nice remarks posted by others on here. Maybe those of us that CD are more sure of where we stand.

[bobbimo]

Yup, You can count me in the CD column.
AND I love this site because for the first time I feel there are more just plain old CD's around and there is more CD discussions about real life stuff.
Many of the other sites I have seen quickly lead to a sexual encounter of some sort. No real help on finding tips to be a the best looking and feeling woman you can be.
Bobbi

[vivianann]

I know exactly what you mean frederique, I too have experience the disdain, or the I am better than thou type of attitude in the tg community, I have always identified myself as a crossdresser, because that is what I do, however when I search deep down in my being it is much more complicated than I like it to be, because of the labeling in the tg community it is difficult at best for some of us to identify as we truly are. As I have stated earlier and in the past, I consider myself to be a crossdresser, because I do not want to have a sex change, however I identify more as a woman than I do a man, I want to live 24/7 as a woman and am working on achieving that goal. Sometimes I see myself wanting to identify as a *******, but I dont like the negative conotation, or stigma that goes with that label, because I am not into the pornagraphy aspect of that lifestyle. I just want to look like a woman with breasts, and bodyshape, and a feminine looking face, and to live as a woman, but keep my genitaila as they are. Another thing I am attracted to GGs, so where does that put me in the labeling spectrum.
I am tired of being looked down on, because I am not ts, or because I dont drink alcoholic beverages at tg events, my dresses are too conservative, and I am JUST A CROSSDRESSER!, like it means I am a lesser person. The list goes on and on.
I accept everybody as they are, we are all equal no matter what label we choose or not choose for ourselves inside the wide spectrum of the tg community.

[julia marie]

Can I suggest that when it comes to labels we go back to the grading system we had in school with B+ B B- etc. for lack of great definitions on the various labels? Am I just a crossdresser if I always feel and think like a guy no matter what I'm wearing? Am I still just a crossdresser if I act/walk/talk more like a woman? Still just a crossdresser if I wonder what it's really like to be a woman? To think like a woman? To think I might like to be en femme with a guy? At what point does someone become TG? I believe that a lot of us have some degree of a feminine element. I'm starting find that I enjoy rather than dread that.
I'll call myself a CDer but I honestly believe there are some shades of gray. Hence maybe I'm CD+

[ReineD]

I know exactly what you mean frederique, I too have experience the disdain, or the I am better than thou type of attitude in the tg community

I'd like to comment here, and this is not directed just at you Vivianann. I'm suggesting that your perception there is disdain or a better-than-thou attitude is one sided. Admittedly there have been a few TS members who've come off as if they are better than others, but this is only a small handful, not the entire TS community. We've had obnoxious CDers too over the years, who've had their own attitude issues. :p

What I do read consistently, is an attempt by the TSs to describe the difference between being a woman in a man's body vs. needing to use the clothing in order to feel feminine, and feeling feminine only part of the time. This is not saying that one is better than the other, in my opinion, just different.

A big part of the trouble, I think, is that no one puts labels like "TS", "CD", or "TS Questioning" behind their names, and if you encounter a supportive post you might assume it comes from a CD when in fact it was posted by a TS.

[Dana7]

Frederique,

I totally identify with everything you have written here. Like you, I have been victim of condescending attitudes directed at me from a small circle of TG snobs on this site. For some reason, they seem to believe that they are above everyone else for the simple reason of the way they have chosen to walk their path in life. But you know Freddy, my friend, there are snobs like this in all walks of life. I've encountered them on the jobsite, in hobby circles I frequent, in social groups I have belonged to, and even in my relatives. These are insecure people who cannot feel satisfied until they have elevated themselves above someone else by putting the others down.

You, Freddy, are truly a gift in yourself. You are among the most expressive, fluent, and imaginative writers I have had the privilege to read. And I can agree with you that there is a simple joy in doing those little things that give us satisfaction and happiness, even if they are infrequent, noncommittal, or non-TG. Like you, I just have a little fun now and then and it makes me happy.

And you, Freddy, you make me happy too.

[samantha11]

Yes I just like to dress like a woman. The whole en femme thing now since wife did makeup and wig. Just don't want to be a woman or with a man.

[Krististeph]

[QUOTE]

[SIZE=2]So you support attacks on me?

The people on my ignore list are there because they insist on taking my writing apart, sentence by sentence, inserting critical comments, and not offering one word in the way of original thought (for discussion). I don’t WANT to ignore them, but...well...are you familiar with the word “bully?” It troubles ME that the ones causing me to act so drastically are the last ones to be aware of THEIR injurious words, or to display a conscience by way of apology or regret…[/SIZE]

I like your use of the word 'bully'. It does seem to fit some of the replies i've seen, to many people here, not just yours.

It seems to happen however when a good or a well thought out point is made, rather than when a simple flippant comment is made.

I cannot help but think that in some cases (perhaps only a small minority) the tone comes out unintentionally, but when it is consistent and rude, well, it does seem rather bull-ish, and i mean that in a gender specific way- it seems more head on attacking rather than a catty - female - way of negative response.

The great thing about your posts are that the ARE well written out- VERY well organized (i'd love to know if you just spit this out like this or if you write and revise prior to posting), and the simple fact that you do elucidate so many points of your subject, it makes it easy to reply to each of those points in kind.

Now I grant you sometimes it goes much farther than simple intellectual debate, not to mention friendly, but I guess that just shows that CD in general pretty much do represent a fairly representative cross section of the public in general.

I know i want to reply to each point you make, not try and tell you you are wrong, but that i might be looking at things in a different way. I guess it can be a little irritating at times, and I am so sorry for that- you are a wonderful source of ideas to ponder, kind of like a 'lao tzu' of our CD 'community' (See, i did remember your comment on 'community'!

We all grow up differently though, and what I might say for instance makes good sense given my framework of experience, but I might fail to realize that it might not makes sense to someone with a different background.

I'm NOT directing this at you- i know you are aware of this- but to the people that reply critically to what you wrote: they fail to realize the possibility of the idea they oppose might actually be true for someone other than their own context.

In that case, especially if they fail to try to understand a further clarification from you, then 'ignoring' is a totally valid action.

You can never please all of the folks. When i repaired medical equipment- clients LOVED to see me when i arrived to fix stuff. And I did so very well, regularly quicker and more attentive than their past service rep- or their regular one if i was covering another area. But I'd still get complaints, often from the clients I would have least expected. Same goes with students- on my introductory class- i work hard to create a fun environment to learn in- take the stress off worrying about grades... individual attention and such, I've got one of the highest average student approval ratings, but still get some rather antagonistic remarks in the student feedback forms.

Anyway- do please continue to post your very well considered essays!

-Kristi

[Frédérique]

[SIZE="2"]I feel like dashing off a PM or two to explain my “position,” even though there isn’t one. This thread was merely meant to be a plea for non-TG MtF crossdressers to somehow have a “voice” on a site dedicated to crossdressers. The plea itself seems patently absurd, given the circumstances. May I suggest we all look in the hypothetical mirror and ponder who is in the “room” with us? Is that too much to ask for? I mean, I can embrace TG issues as well as the next girl – that’s a given, and I wouldn’t be HERE if I was not compassionate towards ALL types of crossdressers. It ain’t easy, no matter what your “approach” might be, or what your intentions are, according to the situation you have inherited, cultivated, or fabricated. I can dig it, OK?[/SIZE]

[SIZE="2"]I’m sure someone will now break off a piece of the above verbiage, match it up to a previous statement of mine, and attempt to discredit me in front of the gathered throng. Go ahead, you’re within the rules to do so, but you’re completely missing the point, my dear…
[/SIZE]

A big part of the trouble, I think, is that no one puts labels like "TS", "CD", or "TS Questioning" behind their names, and if you encounter a supportive post you might assume it comes from a CD when in fact it was posted by a TS.

[SIZE="2"]I keep thinking about a person I met over on Rose’s Forum (in the UK) back in 2005. Her name was Lisa, and she was definitely TG, a strong “candidate” for TS, but I only saw her in the MtF section. She was alternately poised or highly emotional, happy or miserable, capable of reaching out to nearly every member on the site in some way, including me. One day, a new member lamented that she would always be a “mere” crossdresser, and never scale the “heights” towards actually becoming a woman. Lisa posted a reply along the lines of “Same here! We’re all just plain-old crossdressers, so make yourself at home…” This was an amazing statement coming from such a person, and it struck a chord with me which echoes within this thread. You know, a lot of people never declare what they ARE, which is kinda cool, in a way…

I just wish to add that I have many supportive TG, TS, and FtM friends on this site. I’m NOT insular… [/SIZE]

…I can agree with you that there is a simple joy in doing those little things that give us satisfaction and happiness, even if they are infrequent, noncommittal, or non-TG. Like you, I just have a little fun now and then and it makes me happy.

[SIZE="2"]I think there is plenty of room here for these “non-committal” types, and, since they are amongst us anyway, their personal relationship to crossdressing needs to be respected. As I alluded to earlier, I respect transgendered individuals without hesitation – not to do so would be akin to fouling my own “nest,” however intangible it may be. However, a lot of crossdressers JUST crossdress…[/SIZE]

In that case, especially if they fail to try to understand a further clarification from you, then 'ignoring' is a totally valid action.

[SIZE="2"]Sara Jessica made an excellent point earlier about “ignoring” certain members being detrimental to the discussion at hand, or any discussion, for that matter. I can’t speak for everyone, but if I have nothing supportive to “say,” via carefully-chosen words, in someone else’s thread, I don’t try to post in it. I figure the discussion won’t benefit from what I have to say, so I stay out of it. Oh, I can read a challenging sentence, get angered enough to respond, and then zip off a quick post that irks everyone, but, most of the time, I don’t get involved…

I don’t want to soil my effeminacy by getting mad (a masculine characteristic, IMHO) at a troller. Enter the ignore list. Also, I don’t have the time to dissect someone’s post, or thread OP, and go over it line-by-line like I’m the self-appointed Dean of the College of Transgendered Behavior correcting a thesis. I can distinctly recall typing a similar sentence to that last one on at least three other occasions, but, check it out – I just HAD to do it again! I really think I’m being tested, and I wonder why. It doesn’t matter how well I try to write these things, or how well I try to pull together all of the necessary bits vital to the topic at hand, some people will inevitably judge me as soon as I don my panties and step into the room! Tell me – is this prejudice useful, within the context of discussion, or does everything have to inevitably derail via personal attacks just to please everyone (except me, that is)?


You’d be surprised at how many messages of support I get during these unintentional “skirmishes,” from “just” crossdressers and TG individuals alike. It’s an issue that exists, like it or not. Perhaps I’m opening eyes and minds to a hidden reality here, but that was not my intention at all – I just wished to voice concerns along the lines I have already transcribed, and give further voice to those who crossdress for pleasure, usually in the shadows, somewhere in the far corner of the community. We deserve to be heard and respected, just like everyone else... [/SIZE]

[antonia_bee]

I think you have raised an interesting point, but I personally identify as a crossdresser. If that means that I am transgenderd, then so be it. I happen to love being a man, and I have no desire to change that. I just happen to be a man that feels comfortable painting my nails, or shaving my legs etc. In fact, when it comes to shaving, I feel that I almost 'must' do it. That my legs or chest appear weird with hair!
I also take care of myself, I moisturise and shape my eyebrows. I invest in high quality grooming products, and I enjoy getting ready to go out. Male or female!

I have worked out that although I enjoy these 'girly' things, I am still a guy. I enjoy the role I play in society and I am not interested in living as a girl. But putting on the occasional dress, or pair of tights, oh yes, now we are talking!

[Rebeccarabbit]

Hi personally for my input would say like Angela I would be happy being called "Transgendered".........I may have originally started Cross Dressing many years ago, but that was because it felt right at that time, and at that stage I had not fully explored all the Avenues, or got to experience everything that goes with it and the feeling that is within. We all evolve and change, so why do we have this constant need to put ourselves into a label or bracket ? Sure, accept and enjoy it, but one should never restrict something that does change over years..........

becky xx

[VeronicaMoonlit]

but I guess that just shows that CD in general pretty much do represent a fairly representative cross section of the public in general.

Yes, that applies to the transgendered community as a whole as well. Remember not everyone here I identifies as a CD, the partners/SO's surely don't. :-)

but that i might be looking at things in a different way.

That's what I do, in context of what I've seen over the years. I'm trying to bring the perspective of transgender community online history here.

I'm NOT directing this at you- i know you are aware of this- but to the people that reply critically to what you wrote: they fail to realize the possibility of the idea they oppose might actually be true for someone other than their own context.

While I'd agree to a certain extent, there are also "patterns" and "archetypes" that are there to see. Which is one reason why there's so much repetition here. History repeats because there are people who's "transness" is very similar to certain archetypes in the past.

Anyway- do please continue to post your essays!

I agree, but she shouldn't expect to not receive "some" criticism, sometimes. Especially from oldbies. (I know another message board that's almost entirely oldbies, quite different in tone from here.

Let me respond to a few other points made, this will be haphazard, since I didn't take the time to multi-quote, so things won't be in what I think of as the "proper threaded timeline way".

They actually take the time to pop the little children’s joyful balloons, steal their candy, and act all important as some sort of established standard for how MtF crossdressing OUGHT to be.

This is not the first time you've referred to the community here using terms used for children or little girls. We are not children to be infantilized in words or otherwise. And most of the people here don't identify as "little girls".

You CAN dress for pleasure, and it IS a valid form of crossdressing.

I most certainly agree wholeheartedly!! I have online friends who are longtime "pleasure crossdressers" who don't have the "gender angst" and I'm glad they don't.

since few people come right out and state “I’m THIS or THAT...”

That's a very good point, ReineD mentioned it as well. Personally I don't think that we don't need to makeup new words as some would suggest or go back to using the older meanings as some others suggest. I think that we simply need to use MORE words to describe ourselves and be "direct" with our words. And we must also realize that words and people change all the time, and that trying to stop change, as the old King Canute myth of trying to stop the waves elucidated...is futile.

Perhaps we should be inspired by scientific nomenclature. For example a domestic cat is not just "Felis Catus" in Latin, it's really:

Kingdom: Animalia (meaning an animal, not a plant thingy that uses chlorophyll)
Phylum: Chordata (with a nerve column sometimes within a spine, subphylum is vertebrata)
Class: Mammalia (warm blooded, nurses young with boobs)
Order: Carnivora (meat eater)
Family: Felidae (Feline cat type creatures overall from big to small)
Genus: Felis (small cats)
Species: Felis catus (Kitty! Hello Kitty! You're a Kitty, yes you are!) (can you tell I have a cat?)

So one might be: Transgendered, Permanently Non-transitioning, Crossdresser, Fetishist, Single-garment, pnaties

or: Transgendered, Temporarily non-transitioning, Transsexual, Lesbian oriented, Late transitioner

or for partners/SO's: Non-transgendered, Significant other, married, wife.

It's one of the reasons why I say we need to "use our words" more.

I DO care what others think, but if I don’t preserve ME at all costs I will lose the world – crossdressing is a selfish enterprise, to be sure, so I get a little miffed when someone tries to shake someone else’s foundation.

People change and grow, and sometimes they need their foundations shook to do so. We aren't static beings.

Freddie, you are an intellectual gunslinger...same as me And the one thing about gunslingers is -- they get shot at and sometimes get shot.

That's an apt metaphor indeed.

Most people in the "community" I've found don't look down on you. Maybe it is my naiveté, but I've been blessed to have found a very positive community of people across the spectrum who have been supportive and ready to educate me about the many things I don't know.

Exactly!

I also like this post by ReineD: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post2888981

Very insightful and good questions.

[The people on my ignore list are there because they insist on taking my writing apart, sentence by sentence, inserting critical comments, and not offering one word in the way of original thought (for discussion). I don’t WANT to ignore them, but...well...are you familiar with the word “bully?” It troubles ME that the ones causing me to act so drastically are the last ones to be aware of THEIR injurious words, or to display a conscience by way of apology or regret…

Since you refer directly to my posting method, which is actually common to USENET and how I organize my thoughts. And since I am the one who heavily used it in response. I believe you are referring to ME. So isn't that an attack on me?

It is a personal choice and she admitted to using it. Not a big deal based on moderator's advice.

While I agree that it's a choice to use it, There's a difference between using it quietly and never mentioning it, and using it and constantly bringing it up that she's used it and using it more in many of the threads she starts. The latter is weaponizing it.

I know I’m being looked down upon by some because I’m a “mere” crossdresser (who writes about it), and, if I didn’t, I certainly wouldn’t bother trying to discuss this controversial subject...

You don't actually "know", you "assume". If you think I look down on you because you're "just a crossdreser" you are quite wrong. I don't. I don't disagree with you because you're a crossdresser, it's for other reasons that have nothing to do with how you identify. If you want to know why, just ask. That goes for anyone, if you really want to know why I disagree with Frederique so strongly on some, but not all things, just ask.

And I really like yet another ReineD post: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post2889732

I can accept that many people hold the modern opinions concerning gender, and thus transgender.

You're 73 right? Words change, language changes...no one says "yowza yowza" or 23-skidoo anymore. Ideas change, and perhaps we change with them. Putting it bluntly, you're outnumbered by the moderns who see gender differently and no one is going to go back to the old way, because it wasn't working very well. Again putting it bluntly. Are things better now for transfolk of various stripes, or were they better in 1949 when you were young? I think we can all agree that things are MUCH better now and one of the reasons is that change in ideas and words I just mentioned. Fighting the changes is like being King Canute commanding the waves to stop.

I'm suggesting that your perception there is disdain or a better-than-thou attitude is one sided. ........ We've had obnoxious CDers too over the years, who've had their own attitude issues.

I agree!

What I do read consistently, is an attempt by the TSs to describe the difference between being a woman in a man's body vs. needing to use the clothing in order to feel feminine, and feeling feminine only part of the time. This is not saying that one is better than the other, in my opinion, just different.

Exactly.

A big part of the trouble, I think, is that no one puts labels like "TS", "CD", or "TS Questioning" behind their names, and if you encounter a supportive post you might assume it comes from a CD when in fact it was posted by a TS.

Right, which is why I think we need to use our words more and use more descriptive words to describe ourselves so there is less confusion about how someone identifies.

This thread was merely meant to be a plea for non-TG MtF crossdressers to somehow have a “voice” on a site dedicated to crossdressers.

But they DO! Crossdressers easily outnumber the TS identified, and post a LOT more. I don't understand how much more of a voice you want? But then again, by "crossdressers" you seem to mean the kind that doesn't go out or have some kind of transgender identity in any way. And those who do go out do post quite a bit.

However, a lot of crossdressers JUST crossdress…

Indeed, I've never said otherwise. In regards to real world groups, which are a self-selected subset of the community and not representative of the people here, I tend to see it this way: About 1/3 the members are never going to transition, they're confortable with the maleness. about another third have no real opinion either way though some may have some issues, the last 1/3rd are what I call Proto-TS's they have the gender angst, but most probabgly aren't going to transition because of things like family and such.

I can’t speak for everyone, but if I have nothing supportive to “say,” via carefully-chosen words, in someone else’s thread, I don’t try to post in it. I figure the discussion won’t benefit from what I have to say, so I stay out of it.

Interesting, thank you for posting that. Personally I believe that disagreement can add additional insight to a discussion.. What's the point if every response is a "Ditto", we learn from those who think differently from us.

I don’t want to soil my effeminacy by getting mad (a masculine characteristic, IMHO) at a troller.

I consider that response EXTREMELY chauvinistic and misogynistic, and I am VERY offended as a feminist. Do you think women don't get mad? My mother would get mad, my sister would get mad. I bet the SO's on these boards get mad, in fact some of them have stated that they're mad about something. That's almost a 50's mindset you got there: "women get angry, the are creatures of feminine goodness and purity, and they all want to be nurses and schoolteachers so we don't have to let them become firefighters or street cops, we shouldn't let them run for political office either, it will sully their purity" You get what I'm saying?


Veronica