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My wife knew before she married me. Yes over the last 18+ years CDing has progressed and I am more in touch with my feelings.
I love my wife and I love my family, but if it came to one or the other with my wife I at this point in my life am not sure of my decision. She is begrudgingly accepting and there are other issues involved but we are still together.
Sometimes I feel like the Meatloaf song " I'm waiting for the end of time so that I can end my time with you"
My husband always used to tell me he could stop, that myself and our children were more important...yet he still continued to dress thinking I didn't know. That told me that he was more imporant than myself or our children. I told him the other day CD'ing is a selfish act, unless I am fully involved then many times I see no room for myself in his hobby. By fully involved, I mean that just like his male self, that I am involved in this part of his life. I admit it, and no offense to my husband who I am sure is reading this post, but I do feel very disposable when it comes to his Cd'ing.
I must ask, if your husband required you to wear only skirts or dresses would you comply? Would you consider yourself selfish for wearing pants?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamourgirl GG
-Yeah, I know, I always ask the tough questions. But hey it's interesting to see how people justify hypocrisy.
Why did you put him in a position where he would even need to tell you he could stop and you and the children were more important? Was some sort of ultimatum issued?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamourgirl GG
I don't doubt for a second these statements were made, but . . .
You can also find statements on chat boards about killing people, hating people, flogging yourself, etc, etc. My point being that in any sufficiently large group your going to find people that have feelings and beliefs that are not typical or the norm. (There's a certain amount of irnony in a crossdresser making that statement isn't there?) :-)
With the crossdressing community, I believe the over whelming majority of us feel and express nothing but love, admiration, and appreciation for the wives that put up with us. That there have been some that would sacrifice their marriages and their families for the sake of spending more time enfemme does not shock me, but I'm reasonably sure that attitude does nor represent most of us.
Please, please, please don't think that most of us are just chomping at the bit to get rid of our wives or children. I can't speak for anyone else, but MY life sucked before my wife, and I can't imagine the huge empty hole there would be if she were gone. And for the record, my wife does not visit this board so I'm not trying to get any brownie points with that. It really is how I feel.
Kim (AKA Poppa and Matt)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tree GG
My take on this is that the SO is the one that must decide if they can deal with the CDing, if they think it is disgusting and perverted, there is nothing that can be said or done to change that, and many women feel that way. They want a man who's a man, not a sissy or a perv. When the wife tells you she wants to sleep with a "real man" it's a pretty much done deal and no amount of compromise will be enough to satisfy the requirement. The poison is already in the mix. We, as husbands, are supposed to be accepting of their expanding waistline and PMS and never question these things, what about their level of acceptance? It takes 2 to make a marriage work and when the SO lays out an ultimatum about anything serious, including, but not limited to, CDing, how unconditional is that love?
For those GGs that are the least bit accepting of their SO's issues such as CDing, I have nothing but praise, it shows that your feelings for him are more important than his "bad habits" or life issues.
CDing, for most people is a compulsion that will never go away and may get worse with time, especially if there are gender issues mixed in. Personally, I found self-acceptance to be a better way to live than the crushing depression that comes from hiding this fundamental part of my "self".
The really difficult part about it is how to deal with the gender issues because of the inevitable effect on everyone around you. It's never easy, you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't. Most women run from that type of situation, I don't necessarily blame them, but it still hurts.
My wife filed her divorce paperwork with the county clerk on Monday and served me the papers yesterday. It's the only way it could go for us. She needs a "real man" in her life and I don't qualify for the position.
Amber
For some of us, it is not "that easy".
I loved my wife very much. I put her and our daughter ahead of a lot of things that I wanted for two decades. During the 20 years of marriage, I was able to suppress the desire to dress for the most part, limiting myself to the occaisional bout of underdressing. Our relationship had enough other problems without dragging CD issues into it.
What is truly ironic, is the fact that the suppressing of that part of my personality had the unfortunate side-affect of making me emotionally distant, which itself caused a great deal of unhappiness to my wife.
Not a particularly great trade-off, if you ask me.
It wasn't until after my wife's death and the eventual re-surgance of the desire to dress that I started to think about and try to deal with my "femme" side. During the course of that process, I finally realized what I had done, quite unconciously, in suppressing my feminine side.
So, I don't know that I really have any answers to all this, but I do know that there is no really easy or perfect way to handle the situation. We all have to figure it out best as we can in context of our own personal situation.
Perhaps GG's would learn to relax a bit if CDR's would learn to be honest about their lifestyle choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
Trust me It's no fun living with liars and Decievers
and where would you place the blame ......... marriages rarely (NOTE THE WORD RARELY) fail just because of clothing .. usually much more is involved in the break up of a marriage than a pair of high heels and a wig or two, but it is so easy to blame the woman in the break up of a cding marriage because she was unaccepting of her husbands lifestyle choiceQuote:
Originally Posted by noname
The Expressive and the Oppressor being ............ just so I can be clear about who is who .....Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
Jess
As someone who was honest with my wife from the very start, thanks for throwing me in that boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by jess(SO)
Oh... I dunno, perhaps the stories I read of women walking out because their husband isn't wearing what she thinks he should.Quote:
and where would you place the blame ......... marriages rarely (NOTE THE WORD RARELY) fail just because of clothing .. usually much more is involved in the break up of a marriage than a pair of high heels and a wig or two, but it is so easy to blame the woman in the break up of a cding marriage because she was unaccepting of her husbands lifestyle choice
Tree, for me, my wife and family are more important to me. And IMO a marriage is a joint effort where communication and compromise are very important to keep the marriage healthy.
I will additionally say that my CDing is part of me. I have been a male with many feminine attributes and characteristics as long as I can remember.
I do not think of my marriage at all as disposable. I took my marriage vows very seriously. But I will also say death is not always physically. If both spouses do not actively keep a marriage healthy it will die a slow or fast death. And a marriage can seldom be healthy with just one spouse working at keeping it healthy.
A good and healthy marriage is a grader that will go over and smooth over the bumps and ruts that come along. An unhealthy marriage is more like a bulldozer with the blade down. It will push as long as it can, but it will create a mountain in front of it that will become inpassably.
Being married is a choice. A choice to be in a relationship where it is no longer just you, but also a spouse, maybe kids, pets, in-laws, and much more.
I am lucky in that while my wife does not like my CDing, we both have compromised and continue to work on our marriage in all areas. :love:
But I can see those comments coming from someone that is currently in a dead marriage. I know I would not want to be dragging a dead body around with me all the time. :eek:
I probably should clarify my previous post a bit. My soon-to-be x-wife knew about my CDing well before we got married. At the time, she found it facinating, she likes the exotic side of things. We were married for almost 5 years before I started counciling for my depression. In that time, my depression and her overwhelming need for constant attention and sex had driven a wedge between us already, and she had been seeing another man to fulfill her needs, basicly leaving me "holding the bag". Councilling and an antidepressant has made me a much nicer person, but it's way too late now, she has no desire to work on our marriage, preferring to be with a "real man". This divorce is really more about her and her need for constant attention, and her preference for other men.
I gave her the option of filing the divorce herself and making it easy, or me filing for divorce and having it not be so easy. 4 years of constant affairs is pretty good ammo in a divorce case. BTW, she did make the comment to me that she'd rather sleep with a "real man". I am a bit passive and submissive, but a person can only deal with so much abuse and then it becomes time to do something about it.
I didn't even think about starting into transition until I knew that the marriage was unsaveable. I've thought about wanting to do it for at least 20 years, but my family was more important to me, so I kept it under control, which probably is part of the serious depression that I was dealing with. As I said before, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. There's no ideal solution to these issues.
Amber
Wow -- I am so new here that the passion and honesty are overwhelming. My 2cents - My wife found out one month ago. We have spoken in depth and she is, so far, OK with it. No interest in seeing me or participating. She did say that she would not have married me if I had told her in advance. But she also said that she has a wonderful loving man for a partner and that the compassion and understanding that I am blessed with has alot to do with the feminie aspects of my personality. She also said that we are soo great together. I am 90% a pretty manly man and I love that aspect of myself as well. I can not stop my tg activities I have tried so - If I had told her first she would not be my wife and also likely would not have a partner as devoted as I am to her. I want to honor her by beeing the guy she married and she says she understands that to repress or stuff Candy Darling away will result in some other behavior that could be worse or depression or whatever. I chose my wife over everything but hoestly - this is who we are.
i told my gf from the start, and she was accepting and cool. even then i finished with her on that basis, cos ultimately part of being me is liking men and being a woman with a guy. she would never get that and i never tried to put her through it. accepting types of gals are rare but sometimes even that's not enough.
Thats the big catch 22. GGs are distraught that when their partners do not reveal their crossdressing before marriage, yet 99% admit if they had known they would have run away. They would have pre-judged their partner on the grounds of his clothing preference and would not have judged him as a person. Yet the fact that they did marry their partner shows that they loved him as a person, with a personality which already reflected his transgendered nature. Does this mean hiding the crossdressing was the right choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyDarling
I guess it boils down to what you think is the bigger wrong, a crossdresser hiding his secret and part of his personality or a SO judging her lover over a prejudice which prevents her from respecting him as a person.
This may not be true, I'm one of a few if not the only one in my boat. Through all these years I've seen or read what one sex can do to the other, trust is a rare thing indeed. So I told myself I desire nothing to do with either of them. Enjoying the clothes or the need to be one sometimes is fun, being 'with' one is another issue altogether. My other self thankfully has no interest either besides enjoying ourselves.
It is hard to grasp how someone can throw away part of who they are just to please a SO giving them a tough time with a subject that is tough enough on the individual. This doesn't imply it's always their fault, even when some members make it sound so. It's not unreasonable to expect some of you to find this difficult. We have many topics that aren't easy to deal with. Just realize some of us put our happiness first. As if it should be any other way, ya know?
[SIZE="1"]My first marriage of 15 years ended badly. It was my poor attempt to "run away" from the real me, I am not mearly CD, I am TG and seeking SRS. Trashing the marriage took me a long time to get around to, but eventually I had to be true to myself and my needs, by that time I was in dispair and going down slowly. My second marriage is ending soon, because she can not be married to a woman, she thought that I would turn back the clock when she wanted me to, but I am now too far along to do that to myself. Note: She and I are still trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julie York
As for the CD's I do not think expecting your "S.O." to accept what you are is the right way, it certainly does not work. Talking it over together is a way, if they are even slightly receptive. If they are not, then you have to decide which is more important to you, and ask your self why did you get married?
If you are still dating then tell them early on in the relationship, they deserve this at least. Telling them after marriage is a disaster in the making![/SIZE]
Of course I would wear dresses and skirts silly. Its not a tough question at all. I am genetically female after all, which he is not and never will be. Why in the world would I put wearing pants above my husband and children? Its a simple no brainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
So where is the hypocrisy?
No, it was something he told me when he came out to me and its something he has told me repeatedly when we've argued over his self-obsession. When I got fed up with being ignored I slowly just stopped showing interest in him and in that time he told me he had stopped all the while hiding things throughout the house (although not very good). The thing was--if you say you can stop then stop, don't lie about it. Lying is 10 times worse. Finally severally months ago he finally told me he realized he couldn't stop. Once he was honest, a lot of my anger disappaited. I also realized that this made dressing his priority and not our family because he couldn't stop no matter what. So that being said, I feel disposable.Quote:
Originally Posted by amanda barber
Or a combination? A prejudice with people who lie. What I don't understand is those who want to hide their trueself through deceit (ie. omitting the truth with the standard don't ask don't tell) and then being surprised when their marriage ends or is in disrepair because of this betrayal. Wouldn't it be best to tell up front and if she doesn't accept it to simply move on? Why put either person through the pain (you hiding and being afraid of being caught and her feeling that strong sense of hurt and betrayal)? Just as it is our perogative to accept you or not, its your perogative to be honest and then move on if the acceptance isn't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
Swim or drown... there is really no choice at the extreme.
In this day and age, I would agree with you. If today I was just getting into an relationship, I would let the GG know. But when I got married, it was something that you did not tell anyone else. Partly because you felt completly alone, ashamed, and feared that she would not accept and stop seeing you. Back then if you were a CDer, you had a mental problem and was mentally ill. No one would have wanted to get into a relationship with someone that was mentally ill. Today it is we know it is not an illness, even doctors. So many of us, including myself, keep it secret from our SO's. It has been so long that many of us fear that our SO's will not understand why we kept it a secret and think that we have betrade them. Kinda a catch 22. In my case, my SO has MS, is on disablity and I'm her caregiver. The last thing I want, is for her to end up alone because we ended up in divorce over my CDing. So I stay in the closet.
to me it is down to a person lying ..... not hiding his secret... lying.... as in not teling the truth.... my partner was a practising cdr when mwe met and he chose not to reveal that....... no hiding just out and out lying........... yet still we are together..................... so where does that leave me as a prejudicer........... accepting or gullible????Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
But who has never lied? Is there anyone who has not told at least one 'little white lie'?
In fact, who is even honest about how many people they have slept with before the present relationship? Those statistics are quite surprising (ok I actually was but most people aren't).
Think about it, most of us CD's aren't even able to totally accept ourselves and that can take years to come to terms with. You go through life subconciously absorbing all those comments from society, the media, about how dressing is wrong, sick etc. As you realise that you to have these needs you immediatly hide them from the outset because it is something forbidden. Many of us start with the clothes of relatives or even stolen from the clotheslines of neighbours because of the crushing weight of fear. It takes tremendous courage to even buy the smallest piece of clothing from a store because of the fear of having the shameful secret exposed.
And as we have the need for love just like everyone else and most of us are heterosexual then of course the fear that love and partnership will be forever denied to us because of our secret need. We live in a world where people do so much to win affections. Teeth are straightened, hair coloured, behaviours adopted, surgeries performed all for the purpose of being able to win the affections of prospective partners.
When women's magazines and tv shows have even in the last decade had statements against crossdressing how could anyone not have got the message that 'crossdressing is wrong' 'crossdressing is sick' 'crossdressing is gay' so why wouldn't the natural instinct of anyone be to hide this? They have been hiding it through fear all there lives (or as long as the need has existed) so hiding it from loved ones is second nature and just like people will change there natural appearance or behaviour to be romantically competitive it is also natural to try to eliminate things that endanger it. Just look at shaving, almost every man does it.
But when attempts to conquer or eliminate dressing fails and the CD's very core is in inner conflict and turmoil and is struggling with all that self-hatred and shame they hide it.
What are the alternatives? Don't think for a moment that these aren't powerful forces that drive CD's to hide themselves or to lie to themselves and to others about stopping, the numbers of CD's who have taken their own lives is staggering and a wretched condemnation of humanity.
Most people, and definatly us Cd's, lie for one or both of two reasons. Fear of hurting others and fear of being hurt. It requires a lot of confidence and courage or a lot of feeling safe and secure to overcome this sort of deeply ingrained fear. When people read of relationships ending when crossdressing has become a problem how can they be expected to react?
The honest, the open crossdressers aren't 'doing the right thing'. They are flag waving heroes. As courageous and worthy as the sufferagettes, the civil rights activists who stood up to the kkk. That takes a rare quality.
A little bit of sympathy and understanding might just save a life or two.
If I can type well enough through these tears, let me say that if CDing is a 'selfish act' thyen so was women wanting a career. So was black students wanting the same quality of education as white students. Why should someone have to choose between this need and their loved ones? This isn't a hobby, but wouldn't it be selfish and wrong of a wife to tell her husband he must choose between her or the train set? If the train set was filling the house she might have enough of a point to demand that the treain set be moved to the garage at most. But this is more than a hobby and the objections to it, the responses to it are more than they would be to a hobby too.
This isn't about husbands choosing a hobby over their wives and children.
It's wives choosing social attitudes (which are indeed hard to fight) and emotions and feelings that spring from such over their children, over their husbands, over human and civil rights.
What the husband is doing is choosing lies and hiding over the risk of losing their wives, of losing their children, of losing their career, their friends, their families, their reputations.
Lets all be more aware of the heroism and courage of those who have been strong enough, daring enough to be open about these things.
Do you seriously believe a white lie such as "I didn't cheat on my diet today" is the same as someone not telling you they are a cross dresser? That is not a white lie indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by battybattybats
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I find it laughable that anyone would be considered a hero because they CD. My husband is not a hero because he finally told me after 7 years of marriage. Its something he should have done from the start. Am I a hero because I a mother of 4? Am I a hero because I balance work and family? Am I a hero because I left the house today wearing makeup so that no CDer's are out there criticizing me for not fulfilling my role as a female? Good grief, put me on a pedistool. Its called life.Quote:
Originally Posted by battybattybats
And yes, it is a hobby for many and in another thread many have stated as such so I am not speaking out of turn. So for someone to place priority on a hobby above their family is outrageous.
Well, people do many outrageous things pretty regularly, don't they. Like charging 5 credit cards to the max and then trying to pay the bills. Like letting someone else raise the children because both people need to work to pay for the nice house, the two cars, and the day care expenses. To me, that's outrageous.
I think you completely miss the point about the true depth of feeling and fear that the average CDer has to live with daily. And your attitude does nothing to help this fear. I told both my wifes before the marriage, but in the end, it didn't save either one, and the first one used it against me with people we knew. I know many women think CDing is disgusting and repulsive, but that does not make it so.
As far as lying goes, failure to tell someone something does not constitute lying, it's hiding. Telling someone something that is not true is lying. I understand that Hiding something important from the spouse is a trust issue, but that's what the fear of exposure is also, a trust issue. If you had an abortion when you were younger, would you be willing to just tell someone you were dating? Would you be willing to tell the SO before you got married?