This is why I find DADT so frustrating...(a GG perspective)

It's threads like this one that help me fully appreciate my DW. We share a wonderful relationship as husband and wife and have for over 30 years. She's cool with my CDing, and even encourages it at certain times. She once told me I'm simply "dimensionally sophisticated" and it needs no explanation.

That said, I'm in man mode most of the time. About once every other month we get away for a girls weekend and will slip in a day here and there. In between time we shop together, get couples massages and mani/pedis together, and a few other bonding activities other might consider feminine. On the flip side, she goes fishing with me, works on the bikes with me, goes to the skeet range with me, etc.

In short, we choose to celebrate being alive and the togetherness. We've lost two children in separate tragedies and there's not a day goes by that that doesn't tear at us in some way. Thus, we'd both share that there are far worse things that can happen than me wearing a dress occasionally. Nevertheless, it might not be for everyone.

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

But he also needs to BACK OFF and let me deal in my time. This is going way too fast.

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From the CD perspective, this can be really, really hard, but it can also 'work'. My wife and I have been together 13 years and it's been a roller-coaster in how crossdressing has played in our relationship. I told her about it from the beginning, but after some initial small experiments it faded into the background, not quite DADT but close, for many years. She just wasn't ready to deal with it. But what she did allow me the opportunity to do was to discuss it with her every so often. We'd talk about how it affected us, how it made her feel, and where we stood. She'd occasionally accuse me of being pushy and usually would just tell me she wasn't ready to deal with anything else just yet. I'd do my best to shelve the issue for a while. Thankfully she never closed the door on talking about it.

Almost a year ago we had another of the chats and it boiled down to her saying "Ok, let's take it slow, but I think I'm ready to start dealing with it". It's been an amazing year since then and I realize how lucky I am. Not everyone gets to this point, but if I hadn't given my wife the time and space she needed we never would have either.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Also, many (most?) CDers believe themselves to be quite unattractive as men.

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Interesting conjecture. This seems worthy of a thread of it's own to see the response. I know I'm one sexy beast of a man. I also have an ego the size of the Hindenburg, but that's neither here nor there...

"No. The choice of presentation/adornment, for everyone, is very much a desire to reflect one's socio-economic status and values, whether a person likes to portray him/herself as an academic type, a bohemian type, an athletic type, a relaxed shabby/chic type, a successful business person, etc."

EVERYONE? Sorry, Incorrect. Some people just dress in what they like or find comfortable and could care less what others think. Just as some millionaires drive what other folks might consider a "beater". Now if someone is attending some type of function, most will probably dress to suit the event.

Judging a book by it's cover is never a good idea IMO.

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Originally Posted by Bree Wagner

Interesting conjecture. This seems worthy of a thread of it's own to see the response. I know I'm one sexy beast of a man. I also have an ego the size of the Hindenburg, but that's neither here nor there...

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LOL LOL LOL. Well, you should have an ego. You're attractive!

But seriously, there have been quite a few threads about this about this over the years. I didn't make this up. :p

ok I must ask what is DADT?

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Originally Posted by Missy

ok I must ask what is DADT?

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DADT - Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

...But seriously, the idea of not feeling attractive in male mode is behind a seemingly universal distaste for taking pride in and building up a decent male wardrobe. Even my own SO falls into this, and just this year, he finally bought new clothes for himself for the first time since I've known him. And they do look very nice! (BTW, my SO is also gorgeous as a male). :)...

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This is certainly something that I can relate to as well, and is what probably accelerated my descent down that slippery slope called "crossdressing".

I remember even as a young child being envious of the pretty clothes that girls were allowed to wear, as well as the enormous variety of styles, colors, materials etc. that they were comprised of. What a difference compared to the universally boring and uniform styles of clothing that were foisted upon us males, and where boldly colored and patterned neckties were about the only way that we could show some individual flair. Even better, girls were allowed to wear skirts, dresses AND pants, and every day, the trip to the closet to decide what to wear was an adventure, with so many possibilities available for mixing and matching and creating an individual "look". And the shoes...OMG, the shoes...and the make up...and the jewellery...and the accessories...!

Girls had so many options to make themselves look pretty and camouflage any perceived flaws they had regarding their appearance and body shape with judicious clothing choices, as well as a liberal application of make up and ever-changing hairstyles. No wonder that we teen-aged boys felt that we looked like total dweebs in comparison, and our self-esteem usually dwelled in the basement. These goddesses lived on another planet for all intents and purposes, and we could never be their equals. They also seemed as unattainable as those Playboy models and centerfolds that became our solace as we wrestled with our budding sexuality.

To DM's point, then - and I believe that Reine touched on this as well in another post - is it any wonder that some of us crossdressers appear to be cases of arrested development when it comes to our female clothing choices? After all, we never were 16 year-old girls who were able to experiment with make up and get their urge to dress sexily and provocatively once they hit puberty out of their systems at that time. And so, we make up for lost time (and opportunity) as we fast forward this process in our middle-aged years before ultimately settling on a more flattering and age-appropriate look that we can actually take out in public.

As DM continues to struggle with H's crossdressing and his apparent need to involve her in it (and to some extent, be "in her face" with it), perhaps she can take solace in the fact that it is probably just a phase within the larger context of his coming to terms with his "inner" girl (a.k.a. the infamous "Pink Fog"). This is a phase that in all likelihood, he will eventually outgrow as comes to terms with his transgenderism and lands in his own particular comfort zone, and where he can perhaps retreat back to a true DADT compromise with her that both can live with.

And yes, like many crossdressers here, I also feel that I make a far more attractive woman than a man when fully made up, although my wife seems quite happy with me in the looks department when in "guy" mode. Make up can do wonders as the crossdresser soon discovers and is very addictive, and the consensus here seems to be that when properly made up, most of us look a good 10 years younger than our biological age. This just adds to the "high" and is one more reason why we find our crossdressing so fascinating and appealing.

But I have also become so hooked on my female wardrobe and how much fun it is to dress en femme for the reasons already given above that I, too, have let my male wardrobe decline through attrition, and really have to force myself now to buy something new when it requires replacement or an update. This has become another bone of contention between my wife and myself, and she often feels compelled to buy me something new herself that she feels I will look good in when I appear to be letting myself go in the "drab" department.

HI Doormat
You represent the 99% of the women in the world in that not only dislike the idea of your husband cross dressing but it is actually repulsive to you. I think you are 100% normal. It's also normal to say do what ever floats your boat but count me out. I think he is about as big of a self centered jerk as you are likely to ever find. He's basically telling you that he fully understands your feelings and doesn't care. Maybe you should make him read your post on this website before he becomes one of the criers that posts on here "well, its over...she left me but I am still wearing my bra....poor pitiful me".

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Originally Posted by ReineD

No. The choice of presentation/adornment, for everyone, is very much a desire to reflect one's socio-economic status and values, whether a person likes to portray him/herself as an academic type, a bohemian type, an athletic type, a relaxed shabby/chic type, a successful business person, etc.

People use clothes to reflect who they feel they are and this goes for cisgenders as well as people who use clothes to reflect an alternative internal gender.

Just look at all the varied styles here, anything from the hippie chic, the goth, the business woman, the suburban wife ... each one of these looks reflects a particular socio-economic class.

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All good points, but don't you think that many women's styles also have a very definite "body display" aspect that most men's don't?

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Originally Posted by MissTee

It's threads like this one that help me fully appreciate my DW. We share a wonderful relationship as husband and wife and have for over 30 years. She's cool with my CDing, and even encourages it at certain times. She once told me I'm simply "dimensionally sophisticated" and it needs no explanation.

That said, I'm in man mode most of the time. About once every other month we get away for a girls weekend and will slip in a day here and there. In between time we shop together, get couples massages and mani/pedis together, and a few other bonding activities other might consider feminine. On the flip side, she goes fishing with me, works on the bikes with me, goes to the skeet range with me, etc.

In short, we choose to celebrate being alive and the togetherness. We've lost two children in separate tragedies and there's not a day goes by that that doesn't tear at us in some way. Thus, we'd both share that there are far worse things that can happen than me wearing a dress occasionally. Nevertheless, it might not be for everyone.

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Ouch! Sorry to hear of your loss, so glad you have your partner to help you face that. Your relationship sounds very like the one I am currently building with my GF. She is very happy to give me a pedi/manicure, doesn't care what I wear as long as it doesn't stop her touching me, is a better bicycle mechanic than I am ( you should see her happy grin when she has grease all over her hands! ) We just like....being together.

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Originally Posted by UNDERDRESSER

Ouch! Sorry to hear of your loss, so glad you have your partner to help you face that. Your relationship sounds very like the one I am currently building with my GF. She is very happy to give me a pedi/manicure, doesn't care what I wear as long as it doesn't stop her touching me, is a better bicycle mechanic than I am ( you should see her happy grin when she has grease all over her hands! ) We just like....being together.

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Yes! That's like the relationship my wife and I have. We love and trust each other, and respect each other's desires and needs. Neither of us has to understand the other's motivations. We trust that the relationship is always safe, so it is.

<rant>
I know other couples in which the husband CDs and the wife is totally cool with it. The wives not only tolerate our dressing, they enjoy it! I think there's a common perception that no wife ever wants to hear about our needs. In my opinion, DADT is just hiding and creating a problem to deal with later. If I don't respect and honor my spouse in her entirety, then I'm a liability to her and I'd understand her leaving me. If she wants to wear a mustache, male clothing, and take voice-lowering classes, I'm all for it. I'll help her shop and have her put on a fashion show for me.

I'm sure my opinion is influenced by the fact I'm married to an enthusiastic person, but I really don't see what the big deal is seeing your spouse put on clothes intended for the opposite gender. It's fabric. "Oh my god, I can't deal with it. The world is forever changed!" You want a shift of your world? Hope your doctor never tells you or your loved one you have a terminal illness, or like MissTee, you lose a child.
</rant>

Hi Doormat,
I have already replied to this thread but I wanted to share some recent incite I got. This past weekend I got to spend all day Saturday dressed while my family was out of town and although I had great fun, the one thing missing was someone I cared about being there to share it with. Now with that being said, I understand that with my DADT situation that isn't possible so I needed to be satisfied with a fun day alone. The reason I'm sharing this is to give some incite as to your husband motivation to want you included. I'm not suggesting that that is a fair thing for him to do or expect, just maybe why he is insistent about it.
I hope you have found some solice and incite by your sharing with this board and i know you have given me incite into how a GG may look at DADT. Thanks again and I hope you can find peace and happiness.

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

I don't understand this and probably never will. This is a huge problem in my own marriage as I have NO desire to be involved in my H's dressing and yet he continually pressures me to do just that.

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I agree, you will never understand because WE crossdressers will never understand. It is weird. Now, for me, the DADT means DISCUSSION about, not participation in, dressing. DADT is ignoring the elephant in the room. If a couple can not discuss the topic, that is horribly lonely and creates an atmosphere of "walking on eggshells," with the crossdresser always wondering. What you describe is well beyond DADT. Your desire to NOT be involved is perfectly fair and reasonable.

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Originally Posted by Sarasometimes

I hope you have found some solice and incite by your sharing with this board and i know you have given me incite into how a GG may look at DADT. Thanks again and I hope you can find peace and happiness.

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Thanks, I'm happy enough I suppose, but I imagine peace is a way off. I'm back to lurking on this forum again as I realize I feel very out of place here. My thoughts on my H's dressing are very different to those of everyone here. I struggle to see and understand the things said - such as the 'inner girl' and expressing a female side. How would any man ever really know they had an inner girl? Has anyone here ever actually been inside the head of a female? I can't help feeling my H's dressing is more a misdirection than an inner girl. He has zero feminine traits other than his collection of clothing and honestly, from a GG perspective, his desire to dress seems rather self centered - another irony. Women tend to put the needs of others first. To me, crossdressing seems like a very 'guy' thing to do.

Anyway, I'll keep lurking and learning and maybe I'll understand more over time, or maybe I won't. Maybe there is nothing to understand. My H is who he is and I can see now that this is a lifetime issue we will be dealing with, or at least he will be dealing with, as I haven't yet decided whether that this is something I can live with. DADT is not going to work, I see that now. I also see that CD can be a gender issue and not just about the clothing, though once again (and purely from a GG perspective) I can also see the addictive element at work here and just watching the strange high my H experiences after enjoying himself alone I worry that pushing further for that high creates gender confusion that was never originally there.

So yes, little peace here I'm afraid as my head is thinking about everything. But thanks to everyone who responded here. I know I come across as abrupt and cold but really, if you met me you'd see I'm actually a very warm, fun, and yes ATTRACTIVE girl (I know many people assume angry women must be bitter and ugly) who was very content until the rug (or doormat) got pulled out from under her five years ago and I'm still staggering. My H, the MAN I love, has disappeared into this pink fog everyone speaks of and I'm half tempted to just leave him there!

But we will see. I will lurk and learn and maybe post now and again, if I haven't been banned by then for speaking the mind of an upset GG!

DM

You know what I see when I read your post ? I would BET anything that the Chix here Just Can't wait till you get 10 post so they can PM the hell outta you .. Cuz they just love the GG perspective an want to know all about you an your views . I think you should follow your heart ,,This Thing is Not for Everyone ,, Not good nor Bad if you bailed ,,It's not ,,, If I were you an you just couldn't deal with it I would Break Camp cuz lifes to short ,,If my wife told me she can't deal with it I would respect her more for making a choice an us not having to fus an fight about a bunch of Craziness . Cuz for me This is Home ,,, Way to much wasted time already ,,But I am 1 of a Kind ,, An I stay the same no matter what I wear ,,I am me ,,, An that's the way I will always be ,, There are lots of people in this big ol world that just don't care an lots that do ,,The only trick to this Madness is finding the right Group ,,An that's that ! No Magic just that !

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Heck, you stated, if you knew he was a cross dresser you (and the vast majority of women) would not marry the guy. Heck, I would never marry a smoker.

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This about sums up my opinion. The vast majority of women simply can't look at their man in a dress (etc) and see simply their man in a dress, it skews their view of him despite how manly he might be out of a dress. I told my wife before we got married and 33 years later we still have issues over the matter. I have concluded that CD'ing is, in the vast majority of cases, incompatible with married life.

Wow, am I late arriving to this party.

I know there have been many comments and honestly I have not read them all. But I feel I have to respond to a couple things here.

Hobby? A hobby is making train sets or collecting coins. Not something that is innate. I know you have a different perspective and I am glad you decided to join here so you can learn. But this is not a "hobby" to the majority. It is something we "are". Now if your H is indulging for sexual purposes or just to annoy you that is another story. I am going assume that H is actually a part of the TG spectrum that is not looking for a reaction or a fetishist. Maybe if you (and him if he is the one who tells you it is a hobby) started looking at this not as playtime or something that fills a Sunday afternoon, it may help you reconcile part of it.

Forcing you to partake is wrong no matter what the activity. Common misconception is that married couples need to be together 24/7 and share the same likes and dislikes. This is a major cause for rifts in the relationship. Differences are good. Differences let you take a break, to grow as a person beyond your spouse. So not wanting to partake is OK. Calling him "silly" is not OK. No more than if he called you some sort of put down for whatever you do. (and as an aside here when a person says things like "no offense" or "don't take this personally" they really are saying I know I am being offensive and I am making it personal, own what you say or just don't say it...I don't mean to be rude.)

Now as far as seeing how hard it is for the GG, try being on the other side of the coin. We don't choose to be different. It isn't a choice we make. That would be sort of strange to want to become a fringe group. Looked askance upon, having remarks made, not being treated as a human but as a freak. It is hard for all of us and believe me if we could make the world a better place we would. Most of us have been in the over compensation groove. Macho attitudes, dangerous sports, he-man activities. We try but it doesn't work (or else we would not be here now). We have the same issues you have with dressing. We feel that it is wrong, that we are somehow bad or strange people. It does not help much when the one person we have chosen to be there for us through thick and thin, richer or poorer, reinforces all the bad things we believe. Everything you know about TG you have been taught. Taught by persons who have not lived it or who have the wrong information. remember the world being flat? (OK you weren't there but I was). The reason it was being taught as flat is because for the casual observer you don't see the curve, you see the edge or what appears to be the edge. So someone who everyone believes in knowledgeable says "Since you cannot see beyond 10 miles, the Earth just ends there." Then one day some guy decides to see if that is true and..over the next 100 years..the position changes. The same is true of TGism. You have been told it is wrong. But why do you believe that? Clothing isn't magical. It does not make you strong or bold or wise. When you put on slacks does that make you stronger? Why do you believe that the clothing your H wears makes him less a person (notice I didn't say "man" because that is just a bad label..what is a man anyway? AT best it describes an adult with a certain part of anatomy). You have been told, by people who have either an agenda or are ignorant, that men in skirts or dresses or makeup or heels or whatever are "perverts, gay, murderers, clowns" in general not "normal". You get information that is incomplete or just wrong. And you build on that. It is hard to un-learn anything. But you have to be willing to start with a fresh slate.

This is not all one sided. It is something that both of you have to work on together. That is marriage right? Working together, work FOR each other, being your spouse's best friend? You should not support illegal activities, you should not support abuse, you should not support meanness. But you should support the person. No matter how they present.

Yogi Berra said (ok gratuitous sports analogy because I am after all that appendage)

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Ninety per cent of the game is half mental.

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. That fits here. It is the mental part that needs to be changed. It is the learned response that started with the day you were born and they told you you "have to" be something. Boys are this and girls are that. We know that isn't true. This is just a vestigial thing that needs to be seen with "new eyes". Why do you think it is silly? If he grew a beard would that make it less silly? Do you not know the person under the clothes? There was a reason you married him. I hope it wasn't because of looks. Looks fade. True heart remains.

Sorry if this seems mean. I don't want you to believe that I have chosen one side over the other. I have been on both sides. Trust me, life is too short to fight, Like the spouse that hated the SO's snoring, but then missed it when they died. I have made a huge assumption here that your H is a crossdresser and not a fetishist. If I am wrong mea culpa. But in the grand scheme of the world, when one spouse becomes unmoving it makes the relationship less happy. Work together, learn from each other, compromise, see the world from a new angle. My way or the highway leaves one person with their thumb in the air.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

...Heck, you [DoorMat] stated, if you knew he was a cross dresser you (and the vast majority of women) would not marry the guy. Heck, I would never marry a smoker.

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Smoking is on my short list of dealbreakers as well, but at the same time, I like to think I am open-minded enough to tolerate anything as long as it does no real harm. One of the very few things Dr. Phil said that I agree with is words to the effect that "It isn't the <insert harmless taboo activity here> that is the problem, it is how you deal with it that causes problems."

This is what I get out of this, feel free to correct me. H is a crossdresser, like most of us he doesn't want to be but was born this way. He is not going to quit. It seems that his desire is escalating ...it does for most of us.
You have known for quite a while, I think I read 3 or 4 years?
You do not accept it at all and quite probably never will.
H has probably lived with this for most of his life and undoubtedly has felt all alone in this and is quite likely ashamed of it as well. He desparately needs someone who understands him, I do not think you will. His bahaviour sounds a bit rude or pushy to demand you accept it but he is desparate.
Sounds like a mexican standoff to me. He will not quit and you will not accept it. Either he gives in and goes back to keeping it secret from you or you tolerate it and allow resentment to build up and the relationship suffers. I do not think either one of these sounds good. I wish I could offer something but there is nothing I can offer.

No DM you do not know me. I have been married twice and I did not allow either of my spouses to even have an inkling I do this. It has always been there from as far back as I remember. I didn't want to cause my spouses the same level of discomfort I had about this. It is a burden I bear alone. It is a lonely existance, I am sure he is frustrated too. I wish both of you the best.

Hi Doormat (it's so hard to address you that way)

I can absolutely see your viewpoint, that CDing is an addictive and self perpetuating activity, that we all (cDers) feel comes to define us. It's hard to not see it in the pink fog, but your words would pretty much sum up my wife's view of it. She doesn't understand and doesnt care to read books, consider what it would be like to live with me if I ever dressed around her. But I can understand that she doesn't understand why I can't just turn it off, stop it and concentrate on other things. It's like being stuck in a loop and yes, you're right, no one can truly understand what it is like to be a genetic girl. We approximate it, sometimes tragically. But I just passed a woman on the street who approximates a stereotype of femininity that borders on the overcompensating - decked out in "trashy chic" that was an amazing display of a hard right turn on the feminine spectrum. Where an I going with this?

Oh yeah - your spouse seems to be asking too much of you and needs more. More acceptance. I suspect that your spouse wants something that he can't have, and there's a certain allure in that. But it comes at a cost to you and it sure seems like its too much.

I totally get the yuck factor of seeing your guy in a dress. You are who to are and you don't find it acceptable at all. Thats something he wants to change. It's unfair of him to ask you to if it's beyond your comfort level. In fact I think its rated selfish. However hard your marriage might be I don't believe he knows how lucky he is that you tolerate the DADT policy.

You two are at a stalemate I find my marriage in. Only he gets to dress. I don't. I've pretty much given it up and every day is torture. So maybe he should suck it up, join a support group if he wants some affirmation, and get thee both into couciling so you both can't figure out why he's pushing and if the
Marriage can be saved. From your attitude it seems like you're on the fence. Maybe he doesn't know that.

Good luck and hope you can work it out, if it works for you both.

Darla

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

But we will see. I will lurk and learn and maybe post now and again, if I haven't been banned by then for speaking the mind of an upset GG!

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DoorMat!!!!

I love your posts and your perspective. I especially love that you're pissed off and not afraid to say it. I generally support my CD sisters by default, but I'm not married to one. The variety of CD attitudes and personalities is so huge that they absolutely defy categorization. Some of them I immediately feel a kinship with while there are others who seem like they're from another planet. Having said that, cross-dressing would NOT be a deal breaker for me as long as I knew it from the very beginning. There are a few CD's on this board who I would totally date and I'm on record as digging big strong alpha males. The deciding factor to me is confidence and self acceptance. If my otherwise masculine guy wanted to dress up on occasion and go out with his friends then I wouldn't mind that at all. But if he wanted to sit around the house in a bra and panties and pretend his name was Esmerelda and wanted us to giggle like girlfriends, than that relationship would be a short one.

The issue here isn't cross dressing is it? It's a personality conflict. You don't like his "fem" personality because his internalized shame has broken him into two people. It is NOT your job to work through his issues. If I were you, I would be on the road because all the time you spend wishing things were different is just wasted time, and if there is one thing a tranny knows, it's that time is way too valuable to waste wishing.

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Originally Posted by Badtranny

But if he wanted to sit around the house in a bra and panties and pretend his name was Esmerelda and wanted us to giggle like girlfriends, than that relationship would be a short one.

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Me too! LOL. You do have a way of putting things. :D

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

My thoughts on my H's dressing are very different to those of everyone here.

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Not really, if you compare your thoughts to the other GGs. Many wives feel the same way you do. And although I support my SO's need to dress, there were aspects of it that I found hugely difficult and painful to understand.

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

I also see that CD can be a gender issue and not just about the clothing, though once again (and purely from a GG perspective) I can also see the addictive element at work here and just watching the strange high my H experiences after enjoying himself alone I worry that pushing further for that high creates gender confusion that was never originally there.

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I get confused about this too. It's very difficult to determine why there seems to be such euphoria (pink fog) involved with expressing an alternate gender especially in the beginning. And, what wife wants to be married to a partner who appears to feel this enamored about something that is outside his relationship with his wife? We're talking about more than a love of golf here, and more than just taking on the expression of femininity as yet another facet of a CDer's personality. The highs seem to be akin to the highs that most of us experience when we first fall in love!

My SO and I began our relationship just as he was beginning to step out of his closet, going out in the mainstream in the next town over, very much during the time when I was still in the "new love" phase of our relationship. Without going into all the details, eventually it did feel as if his priorities had shifted away from me, and he was falling out of love with me. I was devastated and the only way I could survive was to also step back emotionally from him ... not because I was against the idea that he needed to express femininity, but because I felt that it was by far his most profound source of emotional joy, and at the time I felt that he could never feel the same way about me. I did not want to be in an unequal relationship, where he was my heart's priority, while expressing femininity was his, this was just too hard. So I also managed to pull away emotionally (I was not able to break it off entirely), to the point where I accepted that we only had a casual, part time sort of "dating" relationship … not the intimate, emotional connection between soul mates that I thought we had had. Slowly I began to detach and it was heartbreaking for me. We tried talking about all of this at the time, but we were both on different pages and the talks were not successful.

I can't pretend that I know what my SO was experiencing during that stage of our relationship, if it was pink fog over his increased feminine expression or if there were other relationship issues outside the CDing that were affecting the distancing. But, just as I felt that our relationship was ending, things began to change. I don't know if he noticed that we were having issues and he made a concerted effort to improve things, of if the focus/priority of experiencing all these wonderful new aspects of the CDing abated naturally as my SO found a way to incorporate expressing her femininity into his regular life, OR, if I just slowly stopped looking at the Cding through the lens that I had looked at it previously. Probably it was a combination of all these things. So now, things have settled down considerably for both of us. We're back in the proverbial saddle again. :)

My point in sharing this is to tell you that if your husband has it in him, as you say, to "be even more gender confused" (which really means questioning whether he is transsexual and wanting to transition), then no amount of suppression or non-acceptance from you with stop this. It may delay the final decision a bit, but in the meantime the two of you will continue to experience an uncomfortable push/pull with all of this. On the other hand, if your husband is NOT a transsexual (like my SO), then allowing him to express himself on a regular basis will help him to reach the place where he is happy with his own routine, and it will cease to take on epic proportions in his mind.

Among the vast majority of CDers, "more CDing" does not lead to wanting to become a woman, although it seems as if the members who do feel this way are pretty vocal around here ... as they should be. When you think of it, the members who are struggling with whether they are women or not do need to work through a lot more stuff than someone who knows who they are. My SO has not participated in this forum for well over a year. S/he's too busy!

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Originally Posted by ReineD

...it seems as if the members who do feel this way are pretty vocal around here ... as they should be. When you think of it, the members who are struggling with whether they are women or not do need to work through a lot more stuff than someone who knows who they are. My SO has not participated in this forum for well over a year. S/he's too busy!

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You know, this makes A LOT of sense to me. I imagine plenty of the stories on here that scare me are from those facing the very difficult position of being truly gender dysphoric and it makes perfect sense that they're the most vocal. It's a little unnerving to a wife though, and perhaps some of these stories could be filtered into different categories? Or maybe that just separates everyone which I also imagine would make people feel worse. I will have to learn which posts to read!

I have also spoken enough to my H to know he isn't a transexual, nor has he ever had any personal doubt in this area. He doesn't consider himself to have any 'girl' inside his head or anywhere else. I don't feel this is our problem but rather his lack of control and addiction to dressing that is now, apparently, involving me. This is the pink fog, I guess. Funny, but I wouldn't mind a pink fog of my own right about now! I feel like having some fun times away from reality too. But I don't have any real way of disappearing from myself like my H can and that bugs me as, like you mentioned with your SO Reine, I often think he has more love for CD than for me.

And maybe he does. :sad:

I also thought I'd address the "silly" comment someone here mentioned. I didn't actually say this to my H as I'm not that unkind. I just posted here that this is how I instinctively feel about a man in a dress and that's something I know I need to work on. I totally understand how unfair this double standard is, given if I wanted to I could tug on a pair of work boots, tool belt and hike down the road and no-one would blink an eye. I get this. But I also wouldn't stuff socks down my pants or tape a fake beard to my face so this is a little different. I also wonder why women don't CD if it is something people are born with? Surely a birth condition would affect both genders and you'd have an equal portion of men and women doing this? Or maybe women do CD and they don't talk about it?

Thinking aloud...sorry.

Anyway, I'm grateful for all the feedback and comments here as they've given me much to contemplate. I may take a hiatus from the forum for a bit (lurking still, of course) as I'm not ready yet to chat to other wives as I feel crossdressed out, if that makes sense. I need to think of something else for a while and settle my mind. I've told my H to leave things alone for now and he has agreed to do that, amazingly. I guess this is a start.

Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

I imagine plenty of the stories on here that scare me are from those facing the very difficult position of being truly gender dysphoric and it makes perfect sense that they're the most vocal. It's a little unnerving to a wife though, and perhaps some of these stories could be filtered into different categories? Or maybe that just separates everyone which I also imagine would make people feel worse. I will have to learn which posts to read!

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Absolutely! You can imagine what I went through five years ago as my SO was branching out and either intentionally not communicating everything that was going through his mind to me, or assuming that I already knew and understood everything. lol. :p I put myself through the wringer reading all the threads here. And what complicates things is, no one puts "fetish CD", "identity CD", "TS", or "TS questioning" under their names, nor does anyone confine themselves neatly to the appropriately named forum sections! :D So yes, I had to learn to filter. And I asked a lot of questions. I'd PM people and ask what they meant when they said such and such in a thread. I'm sure many people thought I was a pain. The best solution for you though, would be to outright show a thread that concerns you to your SO, and get him to tell you how he feels about the individual posts. Tackle it by the horns, believe me it's a lot easier when you put everything out on the table that way.

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

I don't feel this is our problem but rather his lack of control and addiction to dressing that is now, apparently, involving me. This is the pink fog, I guess.

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If this is fairly new behavior, sometimes the beginning feminine expressions seem fetishistic, when they're not really. I don't know your husband, but just the fact that you're married, with kids (and presumably happy together in and out of the bedroom) tells me that he is experiencing a need to express non-fetish femininity but he doesn't quite know how to yet. I'll give you an analogy. A few years ago I conducted an experiment. I wanted to know how difficult it would be for me to exhibit male behavior and so I asked my SO to give me some pointers on how to walk like a guy. I wasn't trying to be humorous, but honestly my attempts were so exaggerated that it was laughable. It's hard to express a gender different than the one we've been socialized in. So the more salient things about the other gender are the first things we notice and try to copy. In the case of a man who has a normal male libido, these things will be what men are attracted to, or the more stereotypical features of femininity, which are for example short skirts, blonde wigs, bright red nails, and so on. My SO's tastes in clothing and activities matured a great deal over the years with exposure and practice and now she dresses like any other GG. I think I mentioned that she goes out about twice per week schedule permitting and honestly, unless she talks to someone, most people don't clue in that he is a genetic male.

As to your husband involving you, I'm glad that he is respecting your head space about this right now and not insisting. Doing otherwise will make things much worse. But, your marriage is a two way street and the CDing (according to everything that I know about it) is not going away. So at one point you will need to make up your mind about how willing you are to recognize your husband's needs. And if you still can't be involved (he really does need to learn just how to be his normal self when he is dressed), then for the sanity of your marriage, he will need some time and space on his own. TG support groups are a good solution. The one that my SO belonged to (we hardly go any more since we don't need to), welcomes wives, parents, adult children, etc. They're a good bunch of people and there is absolutely no fetish/sexual behaviors involved. It's a large group and there is always dinner, a buisness meeting, an activity or a speaker, and just chance to sit around the table, make new friends, and reconnect with old friends.

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

Funny, but I wouldn't mind a pink fog of my own right about now! I feel like having some fun times away from reality too.

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I felt the same way too. But not any more. :hugs:

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Originally Posted by DoorMat

like you mentioned with your SO Reine, I often think he has more love for CD than for me.

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This is the single most difficult issue between the CDers and their wives and the hardest thing to bridge between couples. But you need to understand that your husband and my SO are not like men who do not crossdress. So we cannot ascribe to them the same motives that we did to our past boyfriends for example. As difficult as it is for your husband to learn how to express femininity without making a caricature of it, it is hugely difficult for us as their partners to learn how to redefine what we thought we knew about them (and by extension our own roles in their lives), based on all the other men we've known throughout our lives. It's like learning a different language, and this is why communication is essential to a marriage where there is CDing. If he does something that rubs you the wrong way (for example acting like a frilly teenager), you and your husband have GOT to get to a point where each one of you can talk and BE HEARD without the other feeling insulted, hurt, or angry. And learn to come up with solutions that will be beneficial to you BOTH. It just never works when it just goes one way.

Good Luck DM! My heart goes out to you. But, I hugely admire your willingness to lay it out on the line with us here, and work through what everyone has said. It gives me hope that you will be able to do the same with your husband.

:love:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

If he does something that rubs you the wrong way (for example acting like a frilly teenager), you and your husband have GOT to get to a point where each one of you can talk and BE HEARD without the other feeling insulted, hurt, or angry. And learn to come up with solutions that will be beneficial to you BOTH. It just never works when it just goes one way.

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My wife has been working with me on this for years now. It's hard not to pout when I am called out for feeling embarrassed or silly. It's really, really hard to get past that reflex.

The only way I know of to get to that place, where I am willing to listen to anything she says, is to let my defenses totally down. But I can do that only when I truly know that I am safe. That's the tough question, right? How do we both get to a place where we know we are completely safe to discuss anything?

I used to ask her questions like "are you sure" when she told me it was OK to push the front seat back when she was in the back seat. I thought I was being nice, she thought I was questioning her. I realized quite quickly that she was right. If I was pushing the seat back too far, she WOULD have told me, and I have learned to trust that.

Meghan