On my mind ... are we trying too hard?

Ok, so this is going to be a bit long, so bear with me. I'm also going to post this in the MTF section as well, as it is relevant.
My wife and I are still together right now, and are at middle ground. I can be Chelsea full time with a few exceptions, as long as I don't permanently transition. However, she says she may be open to the idea later. So, here's a timeline on how we got where we are. (Its relevant to where I'm going with this post)
Mid June 13: I saw a transition video and finally admitted to myself I was transgender. I also realized I would not be able to fulfill my needs in private forever, as we had a 2 month old at the time.
late June : I started therapy without telling anyone but my best friend and a friend who is MTF transsexual.
July 1st or so: I told my mom I was in therapy, and the next day I told her why, because she as so upset and worried about what was going on.
July 3rd: ruined my wife's birthday by coming out to her (yeah, I was stupid) we went to my next therapy session and reached middle ground (basically my wife being more attentive to my submissive side, and telling me that guys get manicures and stuff like that too)
mid July : I realized this middle ground wouldn't work for me, and explained to my wife that I needed to transition. She left with our son for her parents house in the NJ (we live in PA).
day after previous entry : my wife returned, knowing I had a therapy session, determined to save our relationship. Once again, we reach middle ground, slightly geared towards crossdressing.
a week later : I go to another session, and admit to my therapist that I absolutely need to transition, and I tell my wife later that day. We make plans to divorce.
August : my wife decides to try living with me while I transition, and tells me to start my transition therapy. A week later she asks me to stop going so we can wait to have a second child first. I stop therapy.
For months after this, my wife is uncomfortable seeing me in female clothing. Wearing panties and a bra is the only thing she can handle.
February : my wife comes up with a middle ground that is our current situation, and asks if I can handle it. I tell her yes 2 days later.
The.next week : my anxiety skyrockets to the same levels as before I came out, with the thought of losing my ability to transition.

My wife has said that she.may be open to me transitioning at some point, which to me is dangling a carrot in front of the horse to keep it moving where you want it to go. And me, I have told her I don't think my need to transition will ever go away. In short, we have 2 desires that honestly have no middle ground, and we are pretty much kidding ourselves to think it will work. My wife told me very early on that our son the only reason we were still together, and I still feel that is true.
also, neither of us is financially capable of living on our own right now.
Finally, my job, which pays well, is not protected for trans people, so I would be waiting for legal protection anyway (from laws and such)

So, after having read that, do u think we're trying too hard? IMO, I think so. I feel stupid for jumping into the deal.my wife gave me, but.I hadn't been able to.dress in so long, I stupidly jumped on it, and promised I wouldn't change my mind (another stupid move) .

HELP

Chelsea - I don't think you're stupid: I do think you're being hard on yourself as you're having to deal with an incredibly difficult emotional, personal and relationship issue.. (Do they get any bigger? I doubt it..)

I think others have already pointed out the difficulties of long term compromise - too much emotional stress; way too damaging for individuals.

But for short term - just think how many 'normal' marriages fail. How many other marriages and partnerships succeed because those involved are prepared to sacrifice and compromise for - in a lot of cases - their children? I would estimate a significant number.

You have some very weighty issues to balance - I think you've pointed out many of the reasons for staying together, and the fact that it makes eminent, short-term sense. Of course it's a compromise - life is full of them. And compromises can be tough - but they can also be the best approach for everyone involved - you just need to decide whether you're prepared to compromise, and commit to it.

But first stop beating yourself up! - there are plenty others around who'll do that for you in time... :)

Katey x

thothing that bugs me is whenever I suggest seeing a therapist or marriage counselor, it always becomes "we don't need them, we'll figure it out together.

Hon, your wife is bargaining. This is a stage of the grieving process. The problem is that you can't bargain with your gender - we are powerless over it. You can't stop your transition by wishing it would wait for a better time. It doesn't care, and yes a therapist would help you both.

What a hard place to be in! Paula is quite correct. You can't bargain with your gender but you can think of the process as more of an adventure, an exploration that necessarily has to take place over time. If you end up completely transitioning mtf with hormones and surgery this does and should take at least a couple of years. Your body needs to get used to becoming biologically female been if your mind tells you you already are. This is also enough time to discover if your relationship with your wife will survive your transition. As you've probably seen from this board this isn't that common. But it does happen. Do yourself and your wife a big favor, though, and don't have a second child. It sounds like your wife is hoping that she can save the marriage by having another child. This does sometimes work because people are pretty decent as a whole and don't want to bring the misery and hardship of a break up to their children. But it's really not fair to anyone in the relationship and it's damaging to all parties since the marriage is just in a holding pattern until the kids grow up or one or the other partner can't stand it anymore. Transitioning is a very dramatic event. When we are involved in dramatic event we tend to want a fast resolution. This actually isn't the best way to deal with any kind of drama. Try hard to take it day to day and when your mind starts planning out the future remember that the future is not now, that we rarely get our predictions right and that a fantasy of what's going to happen is just that, a fantasy. Today you have the wish to transition. Let that be your today. Everything really is step by step. Making promises contingent on future events is a kind of a silly game and very anxiety producing. Limit yourself to what's real now, and that is that you are discovering your real gender, you don't know what that means, but you're in the process of finding out. Stick to the process, not the outcome, no matter what pressures you or your wife bring to bear to force the issue. There's enough drama today without importing it from an imagined future.

Your wife loves you and wants to be with you, have you thought about therapy distorting your thought process.
You want another child, think about all this very carefully without getting too emotional.

If crossdressing relieves your GD to a point it is manageable, then compromise can and would be in order. If however you need to transition, then there can be no compromise unless it allows you the freedom to pursue transition. You should never under any circumstances entertain another child with your present wife, unless you know for certain she can stay with you. The odds of marriages surviving when one partner transitions is very rare. It takes a very special person to handle the changes that occur when one partner transitions to a different gender. You should tread carefully and fully explore your need to transition. The last thing you need is another child to support for 18+ years in addition to the one you have.

Tough questions to ask and decisions to be made. But only you can answer them.

Chelsea;

I'm very much pro-family. In every family situation, there is more then one person involved in such decisions. While it is understandable that you feel this overwhelming need to transition, you are making decisions BEFORE seeking competent professional help, you are dropping decisions on your wife and family BEFORE discussing the decision with them. There is a lot of I,I,I , me,me,me in your post and not anything about your wife and family and THEIR future. A young wife,a young family, the pressure of work. Sure you feel this overwhelming need, but what about your families needs. If you really want to preserve your family, then you will need to slow the train before it derails.

I see all of your points. I am taking it day by day, or trying to at least. I can't transition now anyway, since there are no laws protecting my job. But, I do agree it wouldn't be wise to have another child until we figured out where our relationship is going. We have already planned on reevaluating our relationship come January, as that is when we plan on trying again.
Of course, there are other problems in our marriage besides me. I guess we'll just see what happens

it really does feel like her announcing she wanted another baby was both a stalling tactic, and perhaps a way of anchoring you in place. Not a good thing for you to create a situation where you would owe even more child support in a post divorce situation. I feel that your timeline was very truncated, you seemed to allow the pink fog to haze over your judgement, because you rushed into situations where you told your wife and mom after very short amounts of time. I think perhaps you were hoping to create a catalyst where you'd be able to do as you please without impunity, without taking into account the consequences and fallout of what you were doing. I'm sure at SOME point your therapist would want you to tell your Loved ones, but not so soon, not so fast. And perhaps with a greater amount of discretion.

Perhaps. Sadly, it's a little late for that option. I had planned on waiting until September to tell my wife, but when I told my mom, I was afraid she and my dad would act differently around me, and I didn't feel like I had a choice.

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Originally Posted by ChelseaAnn

I explained to my wife that I needed to transition...my anxiety skyrockets to the same levels as before I came out, [when I think] of losing my ability to transition.

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Originally Posted by ChelseaAnn

I can't transition now anyway, since there are no laws protecting my job.

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My advice, if you want a GG perspective. You two are stuck being co-parents forever, so it's wise to try to stay on good terms. (Also wise not to have another kid together.) You're financially dependent on living together right now, which also means it's wise to try to stay on good terms. And in any case, you are putting off your transition until the legal situation with your job changes.

I would try to build a friendly roommate situation with your wife. Remind her that you are a woman. You're sorry for the disruption this creates for her, but it's unavoidable, just as if you had been diagnosed with a serious disease or been in a serious accident. When you're not at work, you will dress as a woman. If she's not attracted to women, then your romantic/sexual relationship is over. But that doesn't mean you can't be friendly roommates and co-parents.

Encourage her to date other people, and remind her that you will also be dating other people. Assuming that part of your relationship is over, you'll each need to start taking care of those needs with other people. And keep going to therapy -- you will still have issues as long as you're putting off your transition. I think it will be wiser for you to understand that your professional choices are behind your delayed transition. Your co-parent is not the roadblock.

Yes, it does seem like that's where this is all going to go. Honestly, I know why she is so stubborn about staying. She doesn't want to be a single mom. I have tried telling her that this happens even under normal marriages, but, again, she's stubborn.

IDK, would it be dumb just to continue things the way they are, maybe it'll make getting to the roommate relationship easier? And, as she said, it is possible she'll be comfortable with me transitioning. My main thing is that she gave me a chance to do it my way (preparing for transition). I feel like I owe her that much to try it this way, even if I don't think it will work.

Nobody else has to know the details of your sex life. If you live together and look like married people the world will treat you & her that way. What do you mean when you say "would it be dumb just to continue things the way they are"?

I guess to me I want things to be ok, but I feel like we're both not being completely truthful to one another. We both have a "maybe" statement on our side. She tells me that "Maybe I'll be comfortable with you transitioning in the future," when in reality (and I'm guessing, yes) I don't think she ever will. Me, I say that I want to transition, but maybe this will be enough (which I also doubt). To me, it just sounds dumb.
But, I guess since I don't have the legal system on my side yet, it'd be better to stay together, see where things go, build up our funds, and decide what we're doing BEFORE we start trying for another child.
I just wish she'd open her eyes and see that a therapist or marriage counselor would be of some help.... We both have bachelors degrees in psychology for goodness sake...

I think trying for a child in ANY circumstance here is a bad idea. Even if she says she can accept your transition, she may change her mind later on. She has already demonstrated that she is not comfortable with it. My trust would be shot to pieces if you were me. So if she does change her mind again...and it seems written in the stars, then you will be saddled with even more child support. I think she is using the possibility of a second child as an anchor to bargain, control and manipulate you into doing what she wants you to decide. It's ironic, women cite a lack of trust if we hide CDing from them despite their poor reactions, yet never take into account the things they say and do that alter our trust of them.

A therapist AND marriage counselor versed in these matters would be a much better choice here, and taking your lead from them would be a much safer bet, than making it up as you go along or asking us for advice. Perhaps if she has a bachelors degree in psychology, then she sees the writing on the wall, and just doesn't want to hear the truth from a therapist.

Well, I agree with that. I don't want to be shelling out twice as much child support ... The really difficult thing is, at least with my experience, I'm always the bad guy . Her parents say they understand what I'm going through, but don't give any slack because I married her and had a kid, all while knowing about these issues. However, a defense I use that doesn't work was that I had acknowledged theses issues before, years ago (though not to the same extent) and my wife swept them under the rug (we were dating then) . I realize I lied, but I get no slack.
I'm just at a loss. I know the reality of what is probably going to happen. In the meantime, I figure I should enjoy what's going on, keep communicating to her that my need to transition still exists, and let her decide what to do. But yes, I think not having another child is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by ChelseaAnn

The really difficult thing is, at least with my experience, I'm always the bad guy . Her parents say they understand what I'm going through, but don't give any slack because I married her and had a kid, all while knowing about these issues.

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Honey,

I can pretty much guarantee you that her parents do NOT understand what you are going through. Not one iota. I have a very accepting family. Waaaay more accepting than your wife's parents. They don't understand what I'm going through either, really.

I understand always being painted as the bad guy. My wife views me as responsible for literally everything that goes wrong in her life. She has alternated between being somewhat understanding that I didn't choose to be transgender, and being furious at me for wrecking her life.

There is simply no reconciling these types of feelings - they are either going to support you in doing what you have to do, or they are not. Sounds like, at least right now, the answer is "or not."

If you had cancer and had to seek medical treatment - would you expect them to tell you "be responsible - you have a child now!" if that meant the same thing as "don't get treatment?" Of course not. But if you are transgender - sure, they say that as if it's a lifestyle choice.

You don't need to offer a defense. You have an undiagnosed childhood condition. You very probably need medical treatment for it, and unfortunately, the side-effects of the treatment are socially unacceptable to many in this world - most especially spouses and their parents. We are held to an inhumanly harsh standard by this world.

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Originally Posted by ChelseaAnn

I guess to me I want things to be ok, but I feel like we're both not being completely truthful to one another. We both have a "maybe" statement on our side. She tells me that "Maybe I'll be comfortable with you transitioning in the future," when in reality (and I'm guessing, yes) I don't think she ever will. Me, I say that I want to transition, but maybe this will be enough (which I also doubt). ..

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What's wrong with 'maybe'? It seems an entirely understandable and in this case appropriate answer. Your wife, in particular has moved her point of acceptance from divorce to a high level of accommodation, even to the point of wanting a second child, in the event that you transition later.

Maybe you should be a bit more patient, and maybe you should let her have some time to continue her adjustment, and maybe you shouldn't assume the worst may happen some day down the road, and maybe you shouldn't be in such a darned hurry to jump to conclusions.

kimdl, while I understand where you're coming from, and I am giving it some time before giving up, I also need to watch out for myself. I very much doubt if we had a second child, and I transitioned, and we divorced, my wife would tell me "no, I wanted the baby, and I knew what you were going to do, don't worry about child support. "

Honestly, I. Think you're wife is trying to save the marriage, making one accommodation after another. In contrast your behavior has been entirely self centered. And you speak of a second child as a liability.

You have dismissed her motives and discounted the possibility of her accepting your transition. Maybe time will prove you correct. However, if you continue to question her motives and willingness to adjust, you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

Ok, I don't want to make an assumption, but it sounds like you're CD, and have never had feelings of being trans. I merely stated that I didn't want to have another child, not only for my own reasons, but I would hate for her to be a single mother of two, and also, I don't want to bring another child into this if I don't have to.

OOOOON another note, if you read the whole discussion, I have changed my stance a bit, and I personally think it has become more positive, but cautious. My "jumping to conclusions" has been a statement of how well I know my wife, and the sum of past experiences (aka her leaving for her parents house after I came out to her, her trying to control the situation early on, her getting us to the mid-point). You, however, do not know my wife at all, nor do you know me very well. All you know is what I have typed. I would say you probably know Obama, or your local cashier better than you know me.

So please, if you want to judge, keep it to yourself. I have only asked for advice, not to be spat at for "jumping to divorce." If I wanted to do that, it'd be done already. Thank you very much!

It's about children. The only thing that we really have to do to our best ability is raise our children so our genetic code propels into the future. In my honest opinion, the decision at the fork in the road to become a parent starts us down a road that is not anywhere near the sexual reassignment highway, until our mentoring/nurturing time with our children is satisfied. Truly mature and responsible adults know that life is a continuous process of decisions, sacrifice and doing the right thing even when it hurts. You need to learn the art of compromise. Otherwise, break off the rearview mirrors and enjoy your personal offroad adventure.

Yes, but with our relationship, only one of us can compromise. If I compromise, I don't get to transition. If she compromises, she has to live with a woman for the rest of her life (which I'm not sure she wants to. Don't know for sure, but that's what I think she feels like).

Neither of you is going to get everything you want. But if you work at it, you can both get what you need.

You will transition. That's what you need. And if you work at keeping things civil with her, you'll stay in your child's life and have a relationship with that child, which I assume you want. Plus your expenses will be minimized if the two of you can live together with your child.

What your wife/co-parent needs is for you to be a functional co-parent for her. Do what you need to do in order to be the best human you can be (that is, go as far along in transition as you have to), so that you can stop focusing so much on yourself and learn to be there for your kid. Even if you need to transition fully and you lose your job, you and your co-parent will be able to figure out which of you can find the best job and which of you should focus on caring for the child. That's what co-parents do, when they get along with each other.

JessM. is totally right. Transitioning is a no-win scenario for a couple - at least if you define "win" as "staying together as a man and a wife."

The important thing to think of is your child, and you need to take care of yourself so that you can take care of her.

Whatever happens, your wife will get over it. Your child? If you totally break down, or do something really desperate and kill yourself, your kid won't recover well from that. Not at all. Yeah, it will suck for your wife no matter what you do. (Stay as you are? She has to live with your miserable ass, or bail if she can't take it. Transition - yeah, she gets to live with a woman, or bail, if she can't handle it. Die? Yeah, she'll get over it. That's the worst - but spouses recover from this.)

As for you, transitioning is hard. You get everything you want? How can that be a "lose"? Yes, you get to live an authentic life. You also get to experience prejudice that you've almost certainly never experienced in your life. Depending on your situation and luck, this can either be no big deal, or incredibly challenging. (But trust me - even if you are VERY privileged, you'll experience some of this.)

Your mutual "win" needs to be having the best life you can have for your child, given the limitations of your situation. Her individual "win" is to move on with her life. Yours is to live the best life you can as your true self, and to be there for your daughter.

It's a tough break for everyone, hon.

Chelsea, you say that you are seeing a therapist. Is this a gender therapist and what does he/she have to say about your wife's compromises?

Yes, I guess that's probably what my wife sees. Sure there's prejudice and such, but I suppose she sees that I win no matter what.

And Paula, lol, I have a son. I'm not sure if I mixed up my words somewhere, but I had a laugh over that. I really hope that my wife can see that I can be a good parent, I don't have to be a good father.

The biggest issue for me is my wife's views on things. She is a very open minded individual, unlike her parents and sister (very old school... VERY!). Anyway, my wife has two friends who are a lesbian couple, and they have a child (it is one of theirs from a marriage). They are great parents, and my wife can see that, so I'm an constantly asking myself "why can't our son have two moms like their child?" She is constantly saying (especially with our current situation, or "deal") that she wants our son to be able to have a father figure. That is why I can be Chelsea full time, but when he needs a father figure, I need to be there.... ??? So, I'm guessing that her saying that is more of her saying "I need a man in my laugh." That's only my assumption, but her views on what marriage and a family are contradict our situation. So... idk.

I want to be a good co-parent/mother. (Honestly, sometimes I feel like a housewife, but that's another issue with our marriage...). I just wish my wife would see that I don't need to be male to be a good.... hm, masculine figure? I can be a good mother. And yes, Jess, I do agree with you. I feel that I could be a better parent if I was to transition, because I would be the woman I know I am.


EDIT: I am not currently seeing a therapist Reine. However, when I was seeing my therapist, she supported the original compromise back in August (because I had gone along with it as well). However, when I started transition therapy, she told me I had to be honest with my wife and tell her that this is what I needed. ... Wish I was still in therapy. I'd probably be ready to transition soon. However, I do see certain advantages in waiting.


Also, I should note that Pennsylvania is currently working on our equality law, to add transgender to the list of protected statuses for housing, apartment leases, work, etc. The city I work in does have this in place, but I'm not sure if that is for all places of employment, or just the city's employees. Anyone else have a similar law near where they work?

Sorry about misgendering your son! I misread the thread. Also - I deal with so many trans women that the feminine pronoun set just sort of gets stuck in my head sometimes. This causes me problems in other contexts too.

Having friends who are lesbians, and living a life where others view you as a lesbian, or even being in a lesbian relationship yourself are two entirely different things. My wife would've been GREAT if our best friend had come out as trans. Her own husband? No freaking way!

Yes, your wife wants a man in her life, simple as that. Hey, it shouldn't be a surprise - she married one, after all. Is she trying to use your son - and maybe a future child - as leverage? Yeah, I think so.

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Originally Posted by ChelseaAnn

I really hope that my wife can see that I can be a good parent, I don't have to be a good father...She is constantly saying that she wants our son to be able to have a father figure.

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Your son does have two mothers. You don't need your wife's permission; you already are a woman. Why not try brainstorming with your wife about other male figures who can play a strong role in your son's life. Does he have uncles who live nearby? Do you or your wife have close male friends who could play that role? Or she can start dating and look for a nice guy who might eventually make a good stepdad for your son.

Oh heck yeah. My brother of course. My father is very involved in my son's life already. Most of my friends are male.
I think I want to give it some more time, only because I promised I would. We are planning a trip to Disney for the end of the year, so I'd hate to ruin our relationship before that. I told her the other day that I want to reevaluate our relationship after Christmas. That's where I'll stand for now. However, your continued advice is appreciated.

You can't "ruin" the relationship by being your authentic self. You can only make the connection better by being clear, consistent, and honest about who you really are. More individual therapy would probably help with that.

Also, remember that your son won't get much out of the Disney experience until he's about 3. And if you go then, be prepared to go on "It's a Small World" about 100,000 times in a row. I kid you not.

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Originally Posted by JessM.

Encourage her to date other people, and remind her that you will also be dating other people. Assuming that part of your relationship is over, you'll each need to start taking care of those needs with other people. And keep going to therapy -- you will still have issues as long as you're putting off your transition. I think it will be wiser for you to understand that your professional choices are behind your delayed transition. Your co-parent is not the roadblock.

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Jess, seems to me that this is REALLY jumping the gun. ChelseaAnn has NOT figured out what her present circumstances are and you suggest getting into ANOTHER situation with another person who will ultimately have the same problems. I don't think under the circumstances that starting another fire when you haven't put the first one out is really wise.
I don't know ChelseaAnn's background but I'm a little surprised that after having seen a video, she has determined that she NEEDS to transition. Wasn't that known before? Is this some sort of rationalization dealing with a gender issue? I understand there is a lot of confusion and angst with GD but I am suspicious about the motives and origins. Also, I'm curious about the "job protection" claim as a temporary barrier. If the feelings are that strong, then I would think that getting the GD fixed would be of paramount importance. There is likely a good chance that the job will disappear shortly after transition anyway, laws or not. Businesses tend to be GOP and right of center on most social issues and it is doubtful the company will want to deal with a TS, though obviously there are transitioned girls that do work. There is the matter of child support and alimony and many other things, not least of which is the DESIRE to procreate one more time. Who benefits from that? Certainly NEITHER of the children who will be fatherless at the very least. This sounds like a very poorly thought out plan if it is one, but according to ChelseaAnn, "we'll just see what happens I guess" seems to be the play at the moment. everyone wants to accepted for who they are, but how about first being the ADULT they should be and then worry about acceptance.

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Originally Posted by busker

Jess, seems to me that this is REALLY jumping the gun. ChelseaAnn has NOT figured out what her present circumstances are and you suggest getting into ANOTHER situation with another person who will ultimately have the same problems. I don't think under the circumstances that starting another fire when you haven't put the first one out is really wise.

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Don't they set fires to sometimes stop other fires?
The thing about being trans is you have to realize - once you start transition, you are flipping the bird to all of society's conventions. Nobody cares if you are trans and poly, or trans and bi, or whatever - they don't get past the freak out over the "trans" part.

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Wasn't that known before? Is this some sort of rationalization dealing with a gender issue? I understand there is a lot of confusion and angst with GD but I am suspicious about the motives and origins.

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Say what? Nobody in their right mind is motivated to have GD - please believe me on that. I'd rather be waterboarded, because at least that ends, one way or another!

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There is likely a good chance that the job will disappear shortly after transition anyway, laws or not. Businesses tend to be GOP and right of center on most social issues and it is doubtful the company will want to deal with a TS, though obviously there are transitioned girls that do work.

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Um, wrong. The job usually vanishes either:
1. The minute you come out at work and start transition there
2. If you are *really* unlucky, about 1/2 way through your transition, where you no longer pass well as either gender.
Young transitioners tend to work for smaller companies with bigoted mindsets often times - or places that realize that young employees are generally vulnerable and easy to screw with. Older transitioners often kiss entire careers goodbye.

Once you've transitioned, if you are very passable, you can go stealth, and your employer really never has to know unless you choose to reveal it.

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Certainly NEITHER of the children who will be fatherless at the very least.

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Either Chelsea or her wife could remarry, finding a nice guy who'd be a great Dad. I mean, sure, having two moms and two step-dads is a little weird, but it's not THAT much weirder than have mom+step-dad and dad+step-mom.

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everyone wants to accepted for who they are, but how about first being the ADULT they should be and then worry about acceptance.

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I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Can you clarify this?

Um, I'm sorry busker, but I think you were a bit off the mark.
You can't quote something from way back in the conversation without taking into account what she just said...

As for your points, I will help you out.
1. If you had read the entire convo, you would have seen the updates on things, such as my decision to stick with how we are right now. I am not looking to create a worse situation. If it is to be, that day will come. Right now, as my last post said, I am sticking with our current situation.
2. As per the "video" comment, I had been having trans issues. I didn't realize what they were fully, nor did I realize there was a way to fix them. The transition video was a realization that there were options to deal with my condition, and also a realization that I didn't have to hide it for the rest of my life. I don't know why you are "suspicious about motives and origins." I have been dealing with this since I was 15, for your origin question, and my motive is to be the woman I should be. End of story.
3. I'm not sure why you are confused about job protection. It is simple math. Transition costs money. Without a job, I have no money. Not to mention the potential for divorce increases without a job. If I were my wife, and the transition got my spouse fired, I would question their common sense. So, without a job, I would be unable to transition, hence having two problems instead of one. Or, as you put in your words, starting another fire before putting out the first.
4. As per the child issue, the PROCREATE as you put it, I did point out at some point in the convo (if you had actually read the whole thing) that I do not desire to have another child under the current circumstances. I suppose searching through for negatives will cause you to skip over those things.
5. I am, upon reading near the ending of your post, SURPRISED you are on this site at all. I don't know if you're CD, trans (I doubt, since you don't seem to understand the issues), or an SO, but the requirement to have a father is not, in this day and age, a requirement anymore. Fatherless? I hope you don't have any children....

You know what, it's just easier to say that you obviously didn't read the whole conversation, as you would have seen the development of the issue, and found that things are a whole lot better now after multiple people's advice and some thought. I encourage you to read the entire thing next time, instead of pulling random quotes out that can be taken out of context when not paired with the rest of the post. Honestly, you sound like a newspaper that quotes just to get a story. "Blah blah blah .... (six paragraphs later) blah blah blah." And that is why he is a bad person, never mind the six paragraphs of his speech that we didn't bother to include, because it contradicts the story we're writing.


EDIT: also, Paula, just to drive this busker insane, as per his "fatherless" comment, I'm a lesbian. Don't do that guy thing. Thought about it, but couldn't imagine any of it. Also, I think the last thing you quoted, busker is trying to point out that I am a bad adult, and I should have never gotten married, and never had a child since I did not take responsibility for my trans issues (which he clearly points out I should have COMPLETELY understood when I first had them), therefore, I am a bad adult, never mind having a son I love, a wife I am trying to remain with, a house, a steady job, health insurance, a car which is almost paid off, best friends I can count on to help me out at any moment, I can go on. But, since I'm trans, and I'm having trouble with that, yes, I am a bad adult.

Paula, yes they do set fires to fight fires, but they are set by people who KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING (not shouting, just emphasis). With a couple who seemed confused about their direction, i would say it is NOT a good idea to start a fire. What I meant by the Video remark was that did it take a video to make it obvious about the GD/transition, and if one knows what one is, then it shouldn't TAKE a video to open ones eyes. Don't know if that is clear or not. In any case, it was not a put down, just something to clarify the issue. The children will be fatherless in that he will not be around to see them grow up on a daily basis--obviously children are NOT fatherless unless born in a test tube but still there is male sperm. Fatherless in the biological/parental sense. step fathers can be good at raising other men's children but I have no personal experience to verify that. I meant by being an adult that sometimes our own happiness and desires have to take a back seat to what needs to be done. In this case, it is the care of a child that has been brought into the world supposedly by parents that WANTED this child. We can choose our friends but not our parents and that puts children at a great disadvantage when the parents decide something else. I'm also a bit taken aback by the talk of Disneyland etc. Is this really something to talk about in the same breath as transitioning? The time and money would be better spent with a psychiatrist I think. and that is said not to be nasty but reality does require something more here than Anaheim California, at least in my opinion. And that is all this is, just opinion.

And once again, you took things from various parts of the convo and put them together, plus you made assumptions. Our Disney trip is with my parents, and was planned out when my wife was 2 months pregnant, and nearly a year before I came out. Sigh... I guess we'll have to do this again. While I understand your opinion, I think you need to first think about what you're saying before you decide to post it.

There is no further talk about divorce, or having a second child, etc. I have decided that, so I don't know why you are still talking about starting a new fire. We are currently dealing with the one we have.
As for the video comment.... um, I think you completely ignored my previous post, where I explained my GD experience and such.... I thought it was quite clear, but maybe I'm mistaken.
And back to the fatherless thing, I... wait a second. You are talking about not starting another fire (aka divorce), but you state that I will not be around to see my son grow up. Can you make up your mind? Here you are telling me not to start another fire, but you then write me out of my son's life as if I want to have nothing to do with him. Sorry pal, but wth?
I am looking out for my son's life. I am trying to be a happier person so I can be a better parent. Sometimes, to get to a goal, there are subgoals that are required to achieve the main goal. And, tbh, I do not involve my son in my trans issues.
Finally, how dare you accuse me of not wanting my son. Both myself and my wife PLANNED this pregnancy, and we both love him very much. And please, don't come back with the "you misunderstood what I said." It was pretty blunt on what you said.

You know what, maybe you should just stop talking and keep your opinion to yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChelseaAnn

Um, I'm sorry busker, but I think you were a bit off the mark.
You can't quote something from way back in the conversation without taking into account what she just said...
EDIT: also, Paula, just to drive this busker insane, as per his "fatherless" comment, I'm a lesbian..

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ChelseaAnn, you can be what you want to be and I'm not offended in the least about you thinking you are a lesbian.
If I read correctly, this thread began yesterday and over the course of 24 hours you have gone form one stance to a totally different one. I didn't intentionally pick out 'negative" remarks, you wrote them yourself, I merely copied them. sorry for your sad state affairs, and I do wish you the best for you and your family.
JUST A CD, no more no less.