Men being men part 2 .... the dark side (& comment on androgyny in the mainstream)

[ReineD]

Asche, the last time I used the term "cis-men" here, there were many who did not follow my meaning. I've been using the term, "non-TG men" since.

At any rate, I meant men who are not interested in crossing gender barriers in any significant way. For example, I know someone who enjoys wearing his lover's panties during sex and only during sex. He is not interested in any other feminine accoutrements at any other time nor does he identify in any way as being the least bit feminine. The panties help him to feel closer to his female lover during sex in ways that I won't get into here. I would also include this person in my broad definition of "non-TG men", or "cis-men" if you prefer. It was meant to be a broad statement, in the same way that we use the terms "men" and "women" here.

Economic necessity: I agree, such a broad statement can never be a single, simple explanation but I did use it as a support statement to the claim Jamie made that many women do not shy away from appearing masculine (although I disagree that a woman who works and wears pants is masculine) in the same way that men shy away from appearing feminine. This was not my main argument although it is a significant reality of our times. A proper discussion of all the other factors that caused women's changing roles in the last 50-70 years, why they started to wear pants and branched out into professions that were previously dominated by men, why some demanded the right to compete against boys in sports, and why most will protest sexism, in short, why women demand equal rights should be done separately, so as not to derail this thread too much. If you like, you could start a thread about this in the Lounge, since by itself it isn't a CDing topic, and invite others to share their opinions.

EDIT
Sue101, I've just read your post #98 and thank you for your response, but to simplify things, let's get back to the basic argument. I maintain that most boys want to be boys and they are not interested in adopting an internal feminine gender ID, no matter what are the social conventions. I gather you disagree with this and you maintain that if society said it was OK for all boys to be feminine, most would since they would like to feel pretty?

I will say this in response to your last argument (women breaking free of their traditional gender roles during the 20th century), this did not in any way cause them to feel any less feminine. They still know they are women and they do not want to change this.