Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post

That said, I don't think it changes anything in the original premise, that most men simply don't have it in them to migrate to another point in the diagram, whether towards androgyny or otherwise.
Well, I cited a few different examples in my first response to you in this thread of cases where they have. Male cosmetics, earrings, skinny jeans, or, if you take it out of personal appearance, all the things Reine listed of ways that the gender gap is closing as to what people are allowed to do or not. I don't think they're migrating towards androgyny, I think it's more that society has gradually allotted for those things to be acceptable for "men."

This makes me think of something I thought of the other night. I had flipped on the TV coverage of the NHL Draft's first round. Up on stage were the Tampa Bay Lightning's staff. Men, several of them, along with their draft pick. And again it struck me, these guys are MEN. They give no thought to their gender, they just do it.
You're right. This is true of just about anything though. Most people don't give much thought to changing the status quo. But it also doesn't mean that if things slowly start to change they won't eventually change with it. I contend that they are, snail's pace, yes, but they are. You could basically negate the cultural impact of any social change that's ever occurred by saying "well there were a lot of people who never thought about it."

Here's a lowkey example: Lightbulbs. Have you gone to a home depot lately and looked at the lightbulb aisle? If you do, tell me the percentage now of CFL bulbs and the newer, even-more efficient LED bulbs, vs standard Incandescent bulbs. The old school bulbs are still there, but they're losing real estate. Yet I remember when CFL bulbs first came out, people dismissed them as a novelty. Now, I've even seen examples in pop culture, like on Yahoo!, where the image of a lightbulb to represent an idea is a CFL bulb. But, most people never thought about the environmental impact of lightbulbs. Even now most people who buy CFLs just do it because they're there, or because it seems like the thing to do. I really doubt the majority of lightbulb shoppers are driving to the store going "Here I go to lessen my environmental impact and cut my energy bills!" Instead they probably just have a shopping list that says "lightbulbs."

And a couple of them do it very well from a style standpoint. Think about it, what's not to like about a man who looks good in a smart suit? Steve Yzerman and Guy Boucher in particular looked incredible. They're both decent looking to begin with but still, could you imagine either of them up there in a dress??? I think not.
No, currently I couldn't. Trust me Sara, I am fully aware of how unusual I am when I go out dressed as a guy in a dress. But, consider this. The suits they're wearing are a thoroughly modern garment. The actual "suit" didn't come into fashion till the seventeenth century, and even then looked totally different from the suit trends of today. So whether the men are actively aware of it or not, they *are* changing their styles and following different fashion trends. Does it mean they're going to jump into dresses tomorrow? No, of course not, but it does mean that the cultural image of what makes a "man" changes.

So once again it's three cheers for men being men, and women being women...and of course acceptance of variations without expectation that such variations will somehow take over. I just don't see it happening.
I don't think the variances will ever take over, does anyone truly advocate that, or don't most people just want there to be mainstream acceptance for us to be ourselves?