when does Crossdresser become Transsexual if ever

[Katesback]

What is kind of funny is that this post was put up an hour ago and it has 271 views. As I have said before I tend to keep it real. If a lot of CDs were NOT TS then they would have no interest in reading about TS stuff but hey 271 hits in an hour says someting.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Cross dressers don't become transsexual.
Transsexual's who thought they were cross dressers always were transsexual.
Many transsexuals can and do languish for years under the weight of excuses as to why they cannot transition.
You know who you are here on the forums Ms. Crossdresser.
Your the one who keeps attempting to ignore those " feelings " of needing something more, much more.
You feel trapped by life. Family, house, career, etc.
That's why for years you attempt to convince yourself your just a cross dresser.
I've seen this before many times.
You are going to wake up one day with multiple mental health issues and the panicky feeling that your life has just gone by without you fulfilling what you were born to fulfill.

Tick Tock goes the clock. That feeling that you just got punched in the stomach is your alarm going off telling you it's well past time for you to act.
This is why you see so many late transitioners.
There's nothing wrong with that but imagine if you transitioned when you were in your thirties instead of your fifties.

Life is up to you , the question is are you going to do what you were meant to do.


Julia

Wow, for some reason your post is really hitting very close to home with me. Not that I might happen to be one of those CD's desperately hanging/clinging on to their male existence.

[Michelle.M]

Seriously I believe a surprising number of CDs are really TS but for 1000 reasons or excuses (married being the biggest one) they choose not to transition.

I think that's very true, but it's not the whole answer.

For many, I'd even guess that even for most of the CDs on this forum, they are simply CD and have no interest in transitioning nor do they see themselves as TS in any way. The problem is that many TS doubt the sincerity of that explanation, and I think that is unnecessarily trans-centric.

Julia Serrano describes some of the prior phases of her transition in such recognizable terms, including a cross dressing period or phase. This is normal, as we who are trying to come to grips with our gender identity frequently attempt a variety of solutions to ease the gender dissonance that, at that time in our lives, does not yet have a name.

The same can be said of other interim steps that, when isolated from the transition process, have their own names. When Chaz Bono was Chastity he (at the time, she) came out as lesbian. But he was not a lesbian, merely a transman who took a step to find relief for gender dissonance using a recognizable and acceptable solution. But it turned out to be incomplete. This is common, and this, I believe, is what gives critics and poorly trained therapists the belief that TS are merely confused homosexuals.

For many, cross dressing and experiments with sexual orientation are among the attempts one makes to make sense of something that may seem incomprehensible. But cross dressing does not have to be an inevitable step towards transition, and many CDs here will emphatically state that they are cisgendered and heterosexual and intend to live their lives that was for as long as they can envision. I think that should be respected.

I think that we also should not make the same mistake and assume that TS are merely CDs who have not yet arrived at the same place as we have.

I can't speak for others, but I never identified myself as CD. I never dressed for the reasons that I hear CDs on this forum give for their cross dressing, which are many. For me, it's not a hobby, it's not merely an expression of my gender duality, I don't get a thrill from putting on women's clothing (all of which are acceptable reasons to CD). I am simply getting dressed, and the choice of wardrobe, like other steps in transition, helps to bring my physical image in line with the image in my soul.

[Nicole Brown]

This is a truly interesting and sometimes perplexing question which I can only attempt to answer for myself. First, I do not believe that this is a one way journey, personally, I have found myself traveling forward and backward at different times in my life. I have always known that I will eventually live at least part of my life as a woman, the big question for me is when will this begin.

I have traveled this path for over 60 years, and as some have already stated, I most likely would have begun transition over 40 years ago had I not married and had children. The desire to follow what for me is my true path, has always been a constant which has been overpowered by family and responsibilities many times. Now that the children are grown and out on their own and there is very little left to the marriage, there is little left refraining me form transiting to who I know I am meant to be.

So, for me, I have been a crossdresser, accept that I am transsexual, and at any given point in time fall somewhere under the umbrella of being transgendered. My therapist has already confirmed this and provided me with my GID letter. I definitely do not fit into the 2 year time frame for moving from CD to Transgendered, but definitely fit in. With just a little bit of luck, I will relocate and move into my own place and formally begin my transition prior to the end of this year.

[Miriam-J]

I can't possibly speak for the TS community, but I think some others have done so quite elegantly already (especially Julia and Michelle). I can only speak for myself, and perhaps this will ring true for many others who are also crossdressers.

I cherish my life as a guy and would never want to give it up. This isn't to mollify my wife, family, or co-workers, but because I really enjoy going through most of my life presenting and acting as a guy. Yet there's a minority part of me that thoroughly enjoys the time that I express myself as a gal as well, and looks forward to sharing with others in this role.

I already express myself in many roles in life. I have been and am a father, brother, son, husband, engineer, neighbor, friend, scout leader, singer, restaurant patron, shopper, student, teacher, boss, colleague, and ... myself, whatever that is. I present and reveal myself differently in each of these roles to those around me. I'm still the same person in every case. My presentation as a gal just adds another set of roles to express.

I can accept the set of roles that are collectively categorized as "crossdresser" as an endpoint, with no need or desire to ever "move forward" to life as a transsexual. I expect that others would agree.

Miriam

[LeaP]

You know the joke what is the difference between a CD and a TS.........couple years I know, I know, shame on me but still funny

So here is the million milliliter of estrogen question: [SIZE="4"]"Do you believe Crossdressing to be just a stage along the transgender continuum, or is it stand alone, self expression by male with male gender brain and strong feminine side and no denial?????"[/SIZE]

Sometimes it's a wee bit longer than 2 years, like 50 or so.

The continuum isn't. It's more complex than that. So while I fully agree with Julia and others that many transsexuals often identify as one thing or another on their paths to self-realization, I doubt that most crossdressers are transsexual.

Michelle mentioned Julia Serano. She posits a matrix of both intrinisic and environmental factors covering intrinsic sex, gender role, gender expression, physical factors, and other considerations. If you accept that, it's perfectly plausible to have a crossdresser who absolutely has a male identity (intrinsic sex), but a drive toward female expression. I.e., the stereotypical, adamantly male CDer so often seen on this site. Alternatively, blends of factors and infinite variety, which also fits the self-description of many on the site and a bit closer to your (Inna's) continuum.

Lea

[Michelle.M]

I can't possibly speak for the TS community, but I think some others have done so quite elegantly already (especially Julia and Michelle). I can only speak for myself, and perhaps this will ring true for many others who are also crossdressers.

I cherish my life as a guy and would never want to give it up. This isn't to mollify my wife, family, or co-workers, but because I really enjoy going through most of my life presenting and acting as a guy. Yet there's a minority part of me that thoroughly enjoys the time that I express myself as a gal as well, and looks forward to sharing with others in this role.

I already express myself in many roles in life. I have been and am a father, brother, son, husband, engineer, neighbor, friend, scout leader, singer, restaurant patron, shopper, student, teacher, boss, colleague, and ... myself, whatever that is. I present and reveal myself differently in each of these roles to those around me. I'm still the same person in every case. My presentation as a gal just adds another set of roles to express.

I can accept the set of roles that are collectively categorized as "crossdresser" as an endpoint, with no need or desire to ever "move forward" to life as a transsexual. I expect that others would agree.

Miriam

Well said, Miriam!

Sometimes it's a wee bit longer than 2 years, like 50 or so.

The continuum isn't. It's more complex than that. So while I fully agree with Julia and others that many transsexuals often identify as one thing or another on their paths to self-realization, I doubt that most crossdressers are transsexual.

Michelle mentioned Julia Serano. She posits a matrix of both intrinisic and environmental factors covering intrinsic sex, gender role, gender expression, physical factors, and other considerations. If you accept that, it's perfectly plausible to have a crossdresser who absolutely has a male identity (intrinsic sex), but a drive toward female expression. I.e., the stereotypical, adamantly male CDer so often seen on this site. Alternatively, blends of factors and infinite variety, which also fits the self-description of many on the site and a bit closer to your (Inna's) continuum.

Lea

Yes! The closer we cling to the gender binary the more difficult it is to accept that a cross dresser can be cisgendered and heterosexual. That we, as transgender people, perpetuate that is baffling to me.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

...

Funny thing is that when a CD does get divorced my money is on them transitioning.

That was my story...cd cd cd...divorce...uh oh...

if you are looking at your own life, i'd urge you to consider the simple question of why you are dressing the way you do.. you are either transsexual or not...you don't "become" a transsexual...you "are" a transsexual (or not)...

The self denial of being transsexual is amazingly powerful in my experience..both in my own life and others... one of the cliches in the ts world is getting your "bell rung" ...i wish it were less true.. but to me its more like letting your guard down for that one sliver of one moment...usually brought on by some event..

one thing that happens many times is that you are getting older, and the commitments keep coming, and there is a final straw..a job change, an ultimatum, a marriage issue..and you realize you have been digging this hole, deeper and deeper into a pretend male life...and you realize you just can't do it anymore... and then you realize how totally f**'d you are, and how there seems like no way to resolve the situation

so you either keep trying to deny it, or you do something about it, or you kill yourself..

if i sound stark, its because it is stark..

[Michelle.M]

That was my story...cd cd cd...divorce...uh oh...

if i sound stark, its because it is stark..

Nope! I think you hit the nail right on the head.

[kittypw GG]

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

[LeaP]

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

With all due respect to your belief, you are reading the thread selectively. Julia in particular said no such thing.

Lea

[Marleena]

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

Ummm.. just no! Only a minority here are TS. The majority here are crossdressers. They are GM's with a female personna they enjoy when needed. They prefer to be male.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Kitty, I read Julia's post differently as well. I think she is absolutely right that CD's don't become transexxuals, and that if you're TS you always have been, the CD is a stop on the way for TS's. But she wasn't saying every CD is a TS, or that every CD will become one.

[Jenniferathome]

Crossdressing is just coincident to transgenderism. There is no cause an effect. A transgender person may be a crossdresser but a crossdresser is not necessarily. It's like humor. If someone is witty, they are smart and funny. But someone can be funny without being smart. Crossdressing isn't a phase. I am a crossdresser and will never be more, or less, than that.

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

Kitty, you are wildly wrong. Any SO should NOT think it is inevitable. It's not. I am sorry you have reached this conclusion,but you have wrongly done so.

[Sandra]

Cross dressers don't become transsexual.
Transsexual's who thought they were cross dressers always were transsexual.

You have just described Nigella to a t took her years to realise this but got there eventually

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

You are wrong not everyone is a transexual.

[Michelle.M]

This thread confirms what I have always believed. Crossdressers are Transexuals in denial. I think it's very important for the so's of cd's to read this thread and in particular Julia's words.

Then you need to go back and re-read the thread. This thread confirms no such thing, and I think you're cherry picking words and phrases to support your own agenda.

Hate to be so harsh, but it's this very attitude that suppresses gender-variant freedoms and promotes trans-misogyny.

[Jenniferathome]

What is kind of funny is that this post was put up an hour ago and it has 271 views. As I have said before I tend to keep it real. If a lot of CDs were NOT TS then they would have no interest in reading about TS stuff but hey 271 hits in an hour says someting.

Kate, that is not the proper read on this. Crossdressers, like myself, want the truth about crossdressing presented, not the myths. We are not gay, we are not transexuals in denial, we are not perverts, etc....

[kittypw GG]

Ummm.. just no! Only a minority here are TS. The majority here are crossdressers. They are GM's with a female personna they enjoy when needed. They prefer to be male.

I disagree. All you have to do is read the threads in the MTF section or know a few in person. I have been around this community a long time and have been privy to the confessions from crossdressers. Confessions about wanting to live full time female, wanting to be with a man, if they were not married they would live the life they really want, etc. This is my opinion from my personal experience. I think it's about time someone speaks honestly about it. So's would not suffer so much if all the cards were put on the table from the beginging. So's have to really absorb the truth when it is presented as well. Perhaps Julia's wife would not have abandonded the relationship or perhaps not have promised something she could not follow through with if the truth was faced honestly. I am not making a judgement on the trans community, it is what it is and I'm glad people are speaking honestly aobut it. My perspective is obviously from the non cd perspective and I know how easy it is to not want to face the truth. I truly think that so's only get let in on the tip of the iceburg. Hundreds of you have said as much. Please don't fault me for having an opinion different than yours.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Janice, your absolutly correct. CD'ing for many TS women equates to a numbing agent for the swell of underlying feelings that at the time either cannot or will not be dealt with.

Kitty, I read Julia's post differently as well. I think she is absolutely right that CD's don't become transexxuals, and that if you're TS you always have been, the CD is a stop on the way for TS's. But she wasn't saying every CD is a TS, or that every CD will become one.

[Marleena]

I disagree. All you have to do is read the threads in the MTF section or know a few in person. I have been around this community a long time and have been privy to the confessions from crossdressers. Confessions about wanting to live full time female, wanting to be with a man, if they were not married they would live the life they really want, etc. This is my opinion from my personal experience. I think it's about time someone speaks honestly about it. So's would not suffer so much if all the cards were put on the table from the beginging. So's have to really absorb the truth when it is presented as well. Perhaps Julia's wife would not have abandonded the relationship or perhaps not have promised something she could not follow through with if the truth was faced honestly. I am not making a judgement on the trans community, it is what it is and I'm glad people are speaking honestly aobut it. My perspective is obviously from the non cd perspective and I know how easy it is to not want to face the truth. I truly think that so's only get let in on the tip of the iceburg. Hundreds of you have said as much. Please don't fault me for having an opinion different than yours.

That's fine Kitty you really need to find the facts on it though. You are welcome to your point of view.

[Miriam-J]

My perspective is obviously from the non cd perspective and I know how easy it is to not want to face the truth. I truly think that so's only get let in on the tip of the iceburg. Hundreds of you have said as much. Please don't fault me for having an opinion different than yours.

Opinions are valued, but not so much when they essentially call the heart-felt thoughts of others to be self-deceptive or insufficiently considered (or worse). I and others have expressed quite carefully that we are very comfortable with a point that does not move on to transsexualism. Perhaps the population sample in your own experience has not been sufficiently random to support an assumption of full knowledge in this area.

Miriam

[Julia_in_Pa]

I wish more than anything on this earth that my ex wife would have kept her promises to me.
She did not. As you said if she would have approached her true feelings in a fully honest fashion then I could have avoided all the heartache and pain by not marrying her to begin with.

I disagree. All you have to do is read the threads in the MTF section or know a few in person. I have been around this community a long time and have been privy to the confessions from crossdressers. Confessions about wanting to live full time female, wanting to be with a man, if they were not married they would live the life they really want, etc. This is my opinion from my personal experience. I think it's about time someone speaks honestly about it. So's would not suffer so much if all the cards were put on the table from the beginging. So's have to really absorb the truth when it is presented as well. Perhaps Julia's wife would not have abandonded the relationship or perhaps not have promised something she could not follow through with if the truth was faced honestly. I am not making a judgement on the trans community, it is what it is and I'm glad people are speaking honestly aobut it. My perspective is obviously from the non cd perspective and I know how easy it is to not want to face the truth. I truly think that so's only get let in on the tip of the iceburg. Hundreds of you have said as much. Please don't fault me for having an opinion different than yours.

[Marleena]

I have always read that any MTF TS person must live as a female for one year before SRS commences which could be concluded as crossdressing. I though it was a necessity based on health care procedures. Anybody with facts can feel free to correct me.

I also believe (maybe mistakenly) that many TS girls start out as crossdressers before discovering the truth which may lead one to believe many crossdressers are actually TS girls in waiting.

[Michelle.M]

Janice, your absolutly correct. CD'ing for many TS women equates to a numbing agent for the swell of underlying feelings that at the time either cannot or will not be dealt with.

My point exactly!

I have always read that any MTF TS person must live as a female for one year before SRS commences which could be concluded as crossdressing. I though it was a necessity based on health care procedures. Anybody with facts can feel free to correct me..

No. The main difference is that at the end of the day the CD changes clothes and resumes his regularly scheduled cisgendered life. For the TS this IS our life! This is not something we do, it's what we are. A TS wearing women's clothing is no more a cross dresser than a GG wearing women's clothing. It's not a pastime, it's just our daily clothing.

I also believe (maybe mistakenly) that many TS girls start out as crossdressers before discovering the truth which may lead one to believe many crossdressers are actually TS girls in waiting.

That is a typical experience of many who have posted in this thread.

[Marleena]

No. The main difference is that at the end of the day the CD changes clothes and resumes his regularly scheduled cisgendered life. For the TS this IS our life! This is not something we do, it's what we are. A TS wearing women's clothing is no more a cross dresser than a GG wearing women's clothing. It's not a pastime, it's just our daily clothing.

Thanks.. just looking for a line of reasoning why one would think the majority of CD are actually TS.