Straight guys and transsexual women...

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Originally Posted by melimelo

I'm superlatively annoyed at this backward kind of attitude, but at the same time, as dilane and some others already mentioned, finding a straight guy that will still consider us for a relationship is an uphill battle.

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Don't waist time being angry - be glad that the idiots are self-identifying, so you know who to avoid.

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

Rude or not, I am afraid that a lot of men probably feel exactly as he does. How many str8 cder's here are repulsed at the thought of being involved with a smelly,hairy, nasty GM,( iam not gay) and have expressed it just as I have just done?

Are you in fact ignorant or uneducated because of your preference? I am not defending his words, but I am defending his right to his own preference, just as I defend your right to being disgusted by the thought of having a sexual relationship with another man.

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Perhaps some clarification is in order? No one is upset with this looser because he likes girls, or because of his preference for them. Kara IS a girl, not a smelly hairy, nasty man. The looser in question has a stated preference for girls, Kara is a girl... The problem is that she is / was transexual and the looser can't handle the fact that she used to have a birth defect she has since had corrected. His little lizard brain can't handle it - and he is blaming her (and her "so-called condition") for it. It is BS - to be polite about it. It might be "the way it is" but that does not excuse it.

We DO find the way he has chosen to express himself to be pretty repugnant, - but even that is only because he is so bloody smug and condescending about it.

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Originally Posted by Hope

Don't waist time being angry - be glad that the idiots are self-identifying, so you know who to avoid.



Perhaps some clarification is in order? No one is upset with this looser because he likes girls, or because of his preference for them. Kara IS a girl, not a smelly hairy, nasty man. The looser in question has a stated preference for girls, Kara is a girl... The problem is that she is / was transexual and the looser can't handle the fact that she used to have a birth defect she has since had corrected. His little lizard brain can't handle it - and he is blaming her (and her "so-called condition") for it. It is BS - to be polite about it. It might be "the way it is" but that does not excuse it.

We DO find the way he has chosen to express himself to be pretty repugnant, - but even that is only because he is so bloody smug and condescending about it.

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I don't think that there is anyone that understands that Kara is a girl more than than I do. And I am sure that just like me and a whole bunch of other TS's, Kara understands that we are not biological girls, no matter how much we desire it to be. There are going to be people that that can't abide by fact that we were indeed once men. You know perfectly well that my reference to big,hairy smelly men was not directed towards kara. Your idea of what's right and what's wrong,fair or unfair is a nice notion, but the world is not a such nice place and can be very unfair. I don't know what your claim to fame is, but if you are a TS, you'ed better wake up to the reality that exists out there, if you hope to succeed. That guy may be a prick, but you know what?The world is full of other pricks just like him.. He is the reality that we as transsexuals face out there everyday. He is our reality! Pretty damn ugly isn't it.

My question on the gentlemans posting is he trying to place his views on others. Is he saying that you are a lower class person or lesser person because of who u are, or because you are transgender. I do not see that, so comparing this to a the black white issue, or any other issue of discrimination is an insult to those who have been oppressed. this is an issue of someone not being able to be feel they can be romantically involved with someone due to their feelings. They may be irrational or not. But they are there feelings. I mean cmon peopl heave you ever met someone who u thought was perfect or great and then found out something about them that changed your mind. Well I have met ladies and thought they might be right for me until I discovered there political view were completely different than mine. I may be wrong and generally am however I would like to have people tell me where in his post or what exactly did he say that makes him Adolph Hitler, and the Grand Wizard of the KKK rolled into one.

Michael, the self described "100% straight divorced guy" who I've been seeing at home in Vegas for a few months broke up with me via email while I was away on a long working trip over Christmas. Then I decided to start accepting some of the "propositions" I get from guys while traveling as a flight attendant.

One experience in particular made me think of this posting... there's a really good looking guy who works at one of our layover hotels. I've spoken to him pretty regularly over the past few months and I assumed that he knew all about my transgender history (it's apparently still one of the biggest topics of gossip at my airline). I was stuck alone in the hotel over Christmas, and hot guy offered to stop by my room on Christmas afternoon to bring some food and wine (!!). One thing led to another and among all the other festive Christmas activities, we engaged in a very intimate encounter. It was the first time I'd experienced some of these feelings since the surgery in September and we both seemed to very much enjoy the encounter. :battingeyelashes:

Then as part of the pillow talk later on, I guess I said something that referenced my transition. He was in shock, literally. I really assumed he knew, but apparently not... luckily he was a nice mild kind guy and didn't freak out & hurt me like the classic cautionary tales warn about. He said it didn't matter, but he hasn't called, emailed or attempted to contact me since then either. :sad:

One thing this experience suggests to me is that, if an experienced straight guy can spend ten minutes in daylight between my legs without realizing that I'm transgender, there is no significant physical difference at this point between me and any other random "genetic" woman lumbering around the mall... the difference is in the straight male brain, not necessarily in our beautiful transgender female bodies.

It infuriates me a bit when the implication is made that in a world full of horny guys we should be lucky and content to wait for the "5%" who will condescend enough to sleep with us!

It's going to be a learning process for you Kara, but please do be careful out there. Maybe you should try to be upfront with guys before anything happens. That way, whoever you do meet, you know it'll be for the right reasons. :)

Just from my experience as a FtM that dated a GM, if a guy doesn't want to date you because you're trans or stops being interested solely because you're trans, chances are there was going to be something else to put them off anyways if they can't see past something as trivial to your character or relationship as that....

Life is far too short to waste time over people like that. I'm lucky to be back with my partner and I've gotten to the point that if me being a FtM bothers someone so much, they can go screw themselves because there's probably something equally as petty that would find to stop liking me.

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Originally Posted by msginaadoll

My question on the gentlemans posting is he trying to place his views on others. Is he saying that you are a lower class person or lesser person because of who u are, or because you are transgender. I do not see that, so comparing this to a the black white issue, or any other issue of discrimination is an insult to those who have been oppressed. this is an issue of someone not being able to be feel they can be romantically involved with someone due to their feelings. They may be irrational or not. But they are there feelings. I mean cmon peopl heave you ever met someone who u thought was perfect or great and then found out something about them that changed your mind. Well I have met ladies and thought they might be right for me until I discovered there political view were completely different than mine. I may be wrong and generally am however I would like to have people tell me where in his post or what exactly did he say that makes him Adolph Hitler, and the Grand Wizard of the KKK rolled into one.

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This wasn't about someone's political or religious views. One doesn't choose to be trans. And it's not about his preferences, which he's got every right to..
Maybe you missed the condescending tone or a couple of the comments this genius made.("You can get laid very easily in Vegas and with good looking straighty men. But it will be through alcohol eyes and deception.") Yep, they only way a trans woman can find companionship is thru meaningless sex,in another city, through the use of alcohol, and of course, deception. Because everyone knows that if we try to live like other women, we're a bunch of liars and decievers. You don't have to read between the lines there to find the whole thing very demeaning.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

i wish you well miss kara...and maybe not so much overthinking...
seems the classic tale of finding someone who will love me as i am...
you just have your own personal twist...we all do...
you have the advantage of being extremely attractive. (HOT)
maybe pillowtalk should be sweet nothings, especially when just for lust.
if i were you...i would be keeping a journal for the screenplay...
i just wanted to wish you happiness and joy...

I have to admit that I was a bit taken aback by your last post. I was under the impression that you were more interested in a loving and caring relationship as opposed to just getting l**d. I am sure that the percentage of guys who would just have sex with us is way higher than the 5% (where ever that number came from) so cheer up. The down side is that, as you just experienced is that they probably won't want to see us again, unless of course that they just want sex again, and we are "conveniently handy". IMHO you basically tricked this guy. The don't ask,don't tell theory is OK I suppose for one night stands, just be careful not to let the cat out of the bag. ( you really could get hurt )
It may in fact not be any body's business that we are TS, but personally I feel that laying our cards on the table with a potential SO will produce a more honest and open relationship in the long run. I certainly wouldn't want that little "secret" hanging over my head as I am sure that many who have hidden their CDing from a wife or So can attest.
Maybe you did discover that it is more of a brain fart on the part of men, and less to do with our female body, but just remember that the "male brain" no matter how screwed up it may be, is exactly what we have to deal with.
There is nothing wrong in your belief that you are a woman now, and the past doesn't matter, but as you have discovered in this case your past absoultely did matter. Right wrong or indifferent. Disclosure may in fact lower your odds of finding someone that will accept the fact that you are in fact TS, but with non disclosure you always run the risk of it coming back and biting you in the butt. I have to admit that I am confused as to what it is you really want.

Kel

*Sigh* Again, if we don't disclose, we are "decievers" and "tricking" people. Damn. Honestly, sometimes we're the most Transphobic people around, and our own worst enemies. As an adult, a Trans woman has a right to want anything she wants, like anyone. Whether that be sex or a relationship is everyone's right to choose, at any given time.

It may be more honest, better for a relationship, allow one to breathe easier and safer, to tell. I happen to agree with all of that. Just don't tell me it's a requirement, or else I'm in the business of tricking people, and not honest.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

I have to admit that I was a bit taken aback by your last post. I was under the impression that you were more interested in a loving and caring relationship as opposed to just getting l**d. ... I have to admit that I am confused as to what it is you really want.

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I guess like most human beings, I definitely want a loving, caring, full relationship with someone who respects and wants me. But also like most human beings, there are times when I get lonely or turned on and feel the need for some physical contact. I was newly (brutally) single and engaging in behavior that, if I was a man, no one would question - being attracted to someone and wanting to act on it is a universal trait of human beings I think.

"Any woman who chooses to behave like a full human being should be warned that the armies of the status quo will treat her as something of a dirty joke. That's their natural and first weapon." Gloria Steinem

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

IMHO you basically tricked this guy. The don't ask,don't tell theory is OK I suppose for one night stands, just be careful not to let the cat out of the bag. ( you really could get hurt )

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I really disagree that I "tricked" anyone in this scenario. This guy and I had a few conversations before the date and we'd known each other for a couple months. He was unbelievably complimentary to me and pursued me relentlessly before I finally agreed to meet. I didn't and still don't know about every important aspect of his life history that I might find off-putting (e.g. what surgeries he's had, if he's ever been treated for a physical or emotional disorder, etc.) so what gives him the right to have a full listing of mine?

I understand that some men can react violently, and for that reason I probably wouldn't knowingly have any kind of relationship with someone who doesn't know my trans status. In this particular case I thought he did know, and there was no point in our conversation that would have led naturally to me saying, "By the way, are you sure you know that the world used to consider me a guy even though I never did, and I had some surgery to correct the parts of me that I knew were wrong?" ...

Unfortunately there will always, ALWAYS be people that no matter how early or upfront you are with them about your trans status, they will consider you liars and deceivers no matter what, because to them, you're an impostor that's only out there to trick people.

*sigh*

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Originally Posted by Melissa A.

*Sigh* Again, if we don't disclose, we are "decievers" and "tricking" people. Damn. Honestly, sometimes we're the most Transphobic people around, and our own worst enemies. As an adult, a Trans woman has a right to want anything she wants, like anyone. Whether that be sex or a relationship is everyone's right to choose, at any given time.

It may be more honest, better for a relationship, allow one to breathe easier and safer, to tell. I happen to agree with all of that. Just don't tell me it's a requirement, or else I'm in the business of tricking people, and not honest.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

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Nobody said that it is required, and you yourself agree that honesty would make for a better relationship. It seems to me that the OP wants to be in a relationship, as opposed to just having sex. No one is saying that she has to wear a sign around her neck or broadcast to the world that she is TS.
I am saying that IMHO a relationship that begins with secrets has less of a chance to succeed than one the starts out honest and up front from the beginning. If everyone lays their cards on the table "both" parties can freely exercise their "right to choose". Sure she can choose to not disclose, but if it comes back to bite her in the ass later, she has no body to blame but herself, by exercising her right to choose over the other persons.
You are all about rights, do her rights trump her potential SO's rights?
Wouldn't it stand to reason that if someone wishes to have an open and honest and loving relationship, they should begin it with openness and honesty? Let's take an example that doesn't even involve a TS.
Lets say that a woman meets a man, and from she gathers he meets all of things that she finds desirable in a mate. The only thing is that she desires children, but he fails to disclose the fact that he is sterile. This may be a deal breaker so instead of telling her, he keeps it to himself because he want to be in a relationship with her. Does his desire to be with her trump her right to bare children if she so desires?
Take this same couple and she expresses the desire to have children, but in this case he does disclose the fact that he is in deed sterile. It still may be a deal breaker or maybe they can exercise other options like adoption.Either way she at least gets the opportunity to choose.
I am only 26 years old and a lot of people seem to think that I am still wet behind the ears. Yet I see people here that are 20 or 30 years older than I am that still do not understand fairness. Am I that naive that I don't understand, or is they're seeming failure to be able to look at both sides of the coin because it doesn't fit their agenda of having things their way or the way they think that things should be? I am beginning to wonder if treating others the way that you would like to be treated is really meaningless, and looking out for number one is more in tune with some people's attitudes in here.

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Originally Posted by WalT

Unfortunately there will always, ALWAYS be people that no matter how early or upfront you are with them about your trans status, they will consider you liars and deceivers no matter what, because to them, you're an impostor that's only out there to trick people.

*sigh*

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That may be true, but there are also those who can and will accept you for being being what you are after being open and honest with them. Your point being? Do we take that into consideration and not disclose for fear that they may very well have that attitude? I believe that we are talking relationships rather than random people. Wouldn't they be technically right about us if we enter into a relationship without being honest about ourselves?

Kelly, I'm completely in agreement with you, there. I kind of thought I said that. And yeah, I do have an inkling about what fairness is...I wouldn't dream of being in an emotionally committed relationship without my partner knowing everything about me. For myself and for him. What got me was hearing you say that Kara "tricked" this guy. Maybe I overeacted a little, because when I see that, I do get upset. It's a tactic used already by popular culture in almost every portrayal of transexual women you will find. It's telling the story from one side, that of the person being "decieved". As far as I can tell, she's a long way from marrying anyone. As to when you bare your soul, I'd say there isn't a morally right time, it depends on the people involved and the relationship. Are there very good safety-related reasons for telling a man you have casual sex with, or even just date a few times without having sex? You bet there are. I'm not talking about what may make very good sense, in many situations. My problem is with none of that. It is with a persistent belief that the onus lies with me to reveal a very private and intimate part of my life to just anyone. That if I don't, I'm denying someone of some kind of right to know. Some people are actually offended if a TS who has been a friend or co-worker(I'm not talking about coming out at work; thats a completely different situation) for a while hasnt told them. What a beautifully overblown sense of entitlement! This happens, and is encouraged by our culture. It's dissapointing for me to see that kind of talk in here, and you bet I will respond if I see it. I'm all for common sense, fairness, and treating others as you would like to be treated. A man chats me up at a club. I have a nice conversation with him. He feels an attraction, on some level. It may just be harmless flirting, or a friendly talk. He then finds out I'm trans. Are his fears and insecurities that cause him to become enraged really my problem? (again, this is separate from safety) Have I done anything wrong? I can tell youone thing pretty certainly...If I'm badly beaten or murdered at that point, more than one angle in the reporting of this story will concern the fact that I "didn't tell him" I was trans. That is what I mean by telling the story from one perspective, and whether you realise it or not, I believe that is where you are going when you use the word "tricked", in my opinion. And the persistent belief that it's ok to feel that way is what perpetuates the danger level for all of us, instead of dialing it down a bit, and realising that there are parts of my life that are none of your business. You don't have to know everything. Maybe we have a misunderstanding here, and actually agree on more than you think.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

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Originally Posted by KaraChristine

I guess like most human beings, I definitely want a loving, caring, full relationship with someone who respects and wants me. But also like most human beings, there are times when I get lonely or turned on and feel the need for some physical contact. I was newly (brutally) single and engaging in behavior that, if I was a man, no one would question - being attracted to someone and wanting to act on it is a universal trait of human beings I think.

"Any woman who chooses to behave like a full human being should be warned that the armies of the status quo will treat her as something of a dirty joke. That's their natural and first weapon." Gloria Steinem



I really disagree that I "tricked" anyone in this scenario. This guy and I had a few conversations before the date and we'd known each other for a couple months. He was unbelievably complimentary to me and pursued me relentlessly before I finally agreed to meet. I didn't and still don't know about every important aspect of his life history that I might find off-putting (e.g. what surgeries he's had, if he's ever been treated for a physical or emotional disorder, etc.) so what gives him the right to have a full listing of mine?

I understand that some men can react violently, and for that reason I probably wouldn't knowingly have any kind of relationship with someone who doesn't know my trans status. In this particular case I thought he did know, and there was no point in our conversation that would have led naturally to me saying, "By the way, are you sure you know that the world used to consider me a guy even though I never did, and I had some surgery to correct the parts of me that I knew were wrong?" ...

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That's all good and fine, maybe tricked was the wrong choice of words, he didn't know and when he did find out, he obviously didn't find it his cup of tea. You are not obligated to disclose anything to anyone if it is your desire to keep it to yourself, especially in the case of a one night stand. I have read some of your other posts and the theme seems to be along the lines of why can't I find a str8 guy who can accept me as I am? No you don't have to disclose anything, but what if ( like this other guy) he does have an issue with it (right or wrong) ? If you wish to continue keeping it to yourself even when it comes to a potential LTR, you run the risk of having the same outcome. see ya! I am just saying that your chances of finding that LTR and being successful at it might be better if both parties are up front.
No it's not a requirement, but I believe that it makes good sense. You may be able to pull it off for a while, but the potential for disaster is always there. Is that how you want to live your life? Is the fact that it's nobody's business but your own going to make you feel better if it fact goes all to hell one day?

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

I don't think that there is anyone that understands that Kara is a girl more than than I do. And I am sure that just like me and a whole bunch of other TS's, Kara understands that we are not biological girls, no matter how much we desire it to be. There are going to be people that that can't abide by fact that we were indeed once men. You know perfectly well that my reference to big,hairy smelly men was not directed towards kara. Your idea of what's right and what's wrong,fair or unfair is a nice notion, but the world is not a such nice place and can be very unfair. I don't know what your claim to fame is, but if you are a TS, you'ed better wake up to the reality that exists out there, if you hope to succeed. That guy may be a prick, but you know what?The world is full of other pricks just like him.. He is the reality that we as transsexuals face out there everyday. He is our reality! Pretty damn ugly isn't it.

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Yes, because what the transexual community needs is more transexuals who think it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against transexuals, because you know, we are creepy trannies after all.

FABULOUS!

Discrimination seems be the reality you have encountered - but that doesn't make it ok; and it doesn't mean that accepting that reality as the only possible option and teaching others to live with it is acceptable either. Wanting to change things so that the future is brighter for everyone is not really such a bad thing after all.

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

I am only 26 years old and a lot of people seem to think that I am still wet behind the ears. Yet I see people here that are 20 or 30 years older than I am that still do not understand fairness. Am I that naive that I don't understand, or is they're seeming failure to be able to look at both sides of the coin because it doesn't fit their agenda of having things their way or the way they think that things should be?

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Yes! that is EXACTLY what it is! You are perfect, and WE are ALL wrong for wanting to be treated equally. Thanks for setting us strait on this. I am sure we will all sleep better now, knowing that expecting to be treated as whole people was wrong and foolish of us.

I didn't realize that every chance encounter with a man should be treated like it might lead to 60 years of wedded bliss...geez, an adult having sex with another adult and enjoying it, I'm heading for the basement.

KS :g1:

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Originally Posted by GypsyKaren

I didn't realize that every chance encounter with a man should be treated like it might lead to 60 years of wedded bliss...geez, an adult having sex with another adult and enjoying it, I'm heading for the basement.

KS :g1:

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The theme of the OP seems to be asking about LTR's not one night stands or even a few dates that may involve sex. The OP or anybody else for that matter is not required to disclose anything in such cases, nor in a LTR for that matter. Once the guy found out that kara was a TS... he bolted. She had fun, he seemed to enjoy it..it was all good, no harm no foul.
My observations were more about disclosure in where a LTR might be considered. She doesn't have to disclose anything, but if and when it comes out, might she experience the same thing...adios! Wouldn't being open and honest up front be more prudent than waiting for the other shoe to drop?

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Originally Posted by Hope

Yes, because what the transexual community needs is more transexuals who think it is perfectly acceptable to discriminate against transexuals, because you know, we are creepy trannies after all.

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Actually I don't think that discrimination is acceptable, but the truth of the matter is that it's out there and we have to deal with it on a daily basis.Looking at the world through rose colored glasses and hoping for change is so nice, but not a lot of help in the here and now. Being aware of the fact that it does exist might help us to not get eaten up by it. We are all creepy trannies? Are you in fact a transexual? Are you out there living it 24/7 ? Or do you have the luxury of running home and changing into your drabs when you get frightened, or appearing in your drabs so that you don't have to feel the scorn of your friends ,loved ones or neighbors? Do you wear your girly clothes when you are at the pulpit? I do live it 24/7 365, and I don't have the luxury of changing into my drabs, or calling off of work because I am insecure or frightened. The mere fact that I am out there living it everyday amongst the detractors and those who would discriminate should tell you that I do not accept it. What do you really know about it other than what you read? When is the last time you were discriminated against when you were just trying to do your job, or make your way from point a to point b?

Nope I am not perfect, and wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone was treated equally. A very nice dream. I don't have the luxury of dreaming about what may or may not transpire in the future. I have to deal with how things are right now. And keeping in mind that there are narrow minded idiots and haters keeps me alert and keeps me from having my heart ripped out because I just don't think it's fair that people discriminate against me. And you may may not like the fact that my words are harsh, but they are true and and although we need not accept it... it's out there, just as harsh and nasty as my words appear to be. I find it amusing that you want to turn it around on me, like I am the one who discriminates. Just callin it like I see and have experienced it. No candy coating, no what if's or wouldn't it be nice.

And further more, I have experienced the same things that Kara has with regards to acceptance from men. It hurts, and also believe that what we once were shouldn't matter, but the sad truth if that it does in deed matter as witnessed by myself, Kara, and I am sure countless others. It's not something that you have to accept, but it is something that you have to live with. And I am sure that it will remain so until people who talk a lot of smack, stop talking and do something beside flap their gums.

You are hot, pretty and cool, the right person will come along, just be you.

Wow, this got feisty, lol. She thought he knew, whether or not she should have told him is moot, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

Are you in fact a transexual? Are you out there living it 24/7 ? Or do you have the luxury of running home and changing into your drabs when you get frightened, or appearing in your drabs so that you don't have to feel the scorn of your friends ,loved ones or neighbors? Do you wear your girly clothes when you are at the pulpit? I do live it 24/7 365, and I don't have the luxury of changing into my drabs, or calling off of work because I am insecure or frightened. The mere fact that I am out there living it everyday amongst the detractors and those who would discriminate should tell you that I do not accept it. What do you really know about it other than what you read? When is the last time you were discriminated against when you were just trying to do your job, or make your way from point a to point b?

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I've experienced some of the things Kara has, too, but I don't think turning the thread into "trannier than thou" is too helpful :hugs:

Kelly, you've said that some here are looking out for only themseves and lack fairness, but you've said on multiple threads that you don't feel obligated to give back to the community. I wouldn't dispute that, as you say, you do give back, but how do these viewpoints mesh? Not trying to make waves, just curious :love:

With some of the comments here,aren't you glad that we can't we can't give them :thumbsdn: or :thumbsup:. Wait I guess we can ! LoL

Really, if you are a TS, and you don't tell a guy who you are then you really deserve what comes. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but be real, have some respect for others feelings.

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Originally Posted by Joy Carter

Really, if you are a TS, and you don't tell a guy who you are then you really deserve what comes. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but be real, have some respect for others feelings.

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Wow! What a bowl of sunshine you are! A TS deserves what comes to them if they don't fully disclose? They deserve any retribution? Any?

Go away.:Angry3:

Joy I think what Sharon was trying to say, there have been more than a few very brutal murders of transwomen. Transgender awareness day was last November and the number worldwide has doubled from the previous year...this is very real to us...:sad:

I do my best to be out there and show people we are women in mind, spirit, and (with help) body. I have given many scientific talks as Julie, and one on transgender issues. I think it's important to continue the work so that society doesn't see us as males that become females, but females with a wrong body.

I think if someone truly loves you then trans can be worked around, and it has in many loving relationships...look at Jenny Boylan. About the only real dealbreaker is that we have to admit before a commitment as we can never bear children, a husband must know that...:sad: