Cross dressing and marriage.

This was inspired by JulieC thread on marriage and fear .
Cross dressing and marriage , why does it have the effect on some marriages so much more that other things that a person could do within a relationship .
Most other things would have maybe one or two things against it , maybe to much money spent on it or to much time spent on it .
So what is different about cross dressing , well as was mentioned in that thread FEAR for one, but where is this fear coming from .
Unlike a lot of other things it can be coming from the CDer and the wife/SO of the CDer, the CDer may fear that their wife/SO will leave them because they are not manly enough, they may fear that they will lose their job if found out , they fear if they tell and they fear if they don`t tell and get found out .
The wife/SO may fear that their partner is becoming less of a man , they may fear that they will be left on their own if the CDer wants to go further with it , then you have all the out side interference , will all their friends stop speaking to them , will the children be affected and get bullied at school .
Cross dressing can if you let it ruin a relationship purely on that one feeling alone FEAR, yes i know that there are many other things to take into account but if in your relationship you can get over that fear of the unknown when it comes to cross dressing then you will have nothing to fear .
(But i may be wrong) :heehee:

I think a lot of wives just can't get past the "pervert" issue.... plain and simple.... everything else is secondary......

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

I think a lot of wives just can't get past the "pervert" issue.... plain and simple.... everything else is secondary......

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:lol2: Yes that as well but i did not realy want to talk about me :roflmao:

I'm with you Karen, my wife tries but it just makes her skin crawl

Love covers a multitude of sins, especially in a strong relationship. CDing can prove to be the "deal breaker", however, especially if the SO feels her essence as a woman is being threatened if it tends to be an obsession.

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

I think a lot of wives just can't get past the "pervert" issue.... plain and simple.... everything else is secondary......

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Sorry a lot of wifes/partners just plain can't get past the lies and decet you CDERS use the PERVERT word .......... many of us GG's don't

I agree with Denise. My wife will not think of me as a girlfriend just her husband who has the gift of caring, compasssion, understanding and ,oh yes, the love to be as feminine as possible.
Margot

My wife feels uncomfortable with me CDing. There are times, however, when she is perfectly comfortable with it. Neither time is affected by her thinking that I am trying to horn in on her femininity. She gets it that this has very little to do with her, and that she didn't cause any of this.

The other day, though, she grinned at me, and told me that if I am going to wear the panties that she is going to wear the pants...and put on some boxers! :love:

Tia

I think fear stems from secrets. Wives start thinking, if he didn't tell me this, what else isn't he telling me? If he wants to be dressed as a woman, does that mean he wants to be with a man? If he says no now, will that change? And I think all of that boils down to a wife feeling like they're lacking in some way and not enough for their partner.

If you walk into a stressful situation with those assumptions running around in your head, it's hard to hear what's really being said to you by your husband.

I went through the "does he want to be with a man when his femme side is out?", and "will he leave me for a man?", when my partner first came out.
But as we figure out where Melissa fits into our lives, that concern became less and less. But the only way our stressful issues have been resolved is by talking about it over and over again.

There's no way I could come out with my bi side or him to come out with his CD side, with other people, and see it turn into the constructive supportive environment that we've created. I credit the way we communicate.

I think in order to deal with fears and assumptions, both parties have to be willing to listen. I find that fear usually stems from misinformation that feeds into assumptions.

The more things I wonder about when it comes to my partner's CDing, the more questions I ask. I would rather get the answers from him than to go on an assumption only to find I stressed myself out needlessly about something. It's also not my place to decide how he feels about something or assume why does/doesn't do something. He should have the right to answer for himself.

I've come to find that she's becoming just as much a part of me, as she is a part of him. We sort of share her I guess. She brings out a different side of me that interests my partner, and I'm interested in his more submissive side that is Melissa.

But you're right...the support and openminded part of it comes from lack of fear. And a whole heap of trust. I trust what he says about how he feels, why he CD's (even if the reasons change over time) and in the end the rule is, "if one of us is uncomfortable, than we discuss." That way it doesn't give "fear" a chance to dig in her Manolo Blahnik heels and wreak havoc. ;)

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Sorry a lot of wifes/partners just plain can't get past the lies and decet

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You reap what you sow!

Fear is a strange thing which causes you to do some really stupid things. You know better than to hide it from your SO, but you do it anyway. Fear just causes you to be Stupid until one day you wake up. That day we finally learn that hiding, lying and covering up your cd'ing a 1000 times will still have the same result as the first is the day we finally grow up.

I finally learned but the damage is still done to my marriage. Just don't cover up your cd'ing. It is better to tell your SO sooner rather than later. The longer you wait the more likely you will have a terrible outcome.

Joanne, you're right -- most women at best would be insecure and at worst TERRIFIED or REPULSED by their SO being a crossdresser.

I'd say in general that most brides expect their husbands to be the manly pillar of strength they can lean on. CDing, of course, is pretty much the polar opposite of that so it's no wonder wives are so shook up when they learn. Then there's the "pervert" stereotype, and the assumption we're just gay at heart and must dress just to get ourselves a man... :brolleyes:

It takes a lot of talking, reassurance, trust, and love to get past all that and get your wife to understand that you're not a monster and that everything will be OK. Both parties have got to work for it. But it can be done! :hugs:

My wife & I went thru a lot of Bulls**T problems to reach the point in which we now live. I can truthfully say that she's 90% accepting of my lifestyle. The strange thing is a lot of the problems we encountered were of our own making....Here''s a few (and how we overcame them them)

1 - Is he a pervert? ...overcame this by to acting as any normal woman would...trying to be sensitive,nuturing and caring to her needs.
2- Is he gay? ... The only way to overcome this is to not give her any reason to think that.
3. Does he want a sex change? ... Ditto answer #2
4. Is it going to take over our marrage? ....Overcame this by trying to be more sensitive to her needs and not walk out in a dress & heels when she needs a man to talk to.

The list could go on and on, and I suspect there are some wives who'll never accept it. But if you're a CD'r and have a reasonably sucessfull relationship, it's worth a try to come to a compromise.:love:

My wife of 35 yrs, happy married, with 2 grown up boys, has got used to me under dressing and doesn't mind , hose,stockings, knickers ,cami tops even nail varnish colored on toes ,clear on hands,BUT, that's as far as she excepts at the moment,when she looks at clothes catalogs or we go shopping in girly shops, (GREAT TIMES )she always asks my opinion, her taste and mine are slightly different,
when I say, I love that dress, she chirps up, and you would wear it, I reply and why not,then goes of in a huff.
when I say, I like that silk and lace top, she replies no it makes you look like a woman (that's the idea dear) and totally disagrees etc etc etc.

She is my best friend and we have been through hell and high water together,but I just cant bring myself to go the whole hog and chance messing up 2 lives

She is not aware how deep my c/dressing goes ,or that I've always done it ,and all my top clothes are at a gg friend of mine ,who I go out and shopping with so I just continue with the baby steps at home, one at a time trying not to tip the scales too far

maybe, just maybe, I will live long enough to go the the whole way ,with her by my side, that would be heaven.

:hugs: to all

J-JAY

Some women my actually view "the woman in the mirror" as another woman - a form of cheating. Women can be very competitive and possessive about their men... :straightface:

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Originally Posted by FireflyGG

I think fear stems from secrets. Wives start thinking, if he didn't tell me this, what else isn't he telling me? If he wants to be dressed as a woman, does that mean he wants to be with a man? If he says no now, will that change? And I think all of that boils down to a wife feeling like they're lacking in some way and not enough for their partner.

If you walk into a stressful situation with those assumptions running around in your head, it's hard to hear what's really being said to you by your husband.

I went through the "does he want to be with a man when his femme side is out?", and "will he leave me for a man?", when my partner first came out.
But as we figure out where Melissa fits into our lives, that concern became less and less. But the only way our stressful issues have been resolved is by talking about it over and over again.

There's no way I could come out with my bi side or him to come out with his CD side, with other people, and see it turn into the constructive supportive environment that we've created. I credit the way we communicate.

I think in order to deal with fears and assumptions, both parties have to be willing to listen. I find that fear usually stems from misinformation that feeds into assumptions.

The more things I wonder about when it comes to my partner's CDing, the more questions I ask. I would rather get the answers from him than to go on an assumption only to find I stressed myself out needlessly about something. It's also not my place to decide how he feels about something or assume why does/doesn't do something. He should have the right to answer for himself.

I've come to find that she's becoming just as much a part of me, as she is a part of him. We sort of share her I guess. She brings out a different side of me that interests my partner, and I'm interested in his more submissive side that is Melissa.

But you're right...the support and openminded part of it comes from lack of fear. And a whole heap of trust. I trust what he says about how he feels, why he CD's (even if the reasons change over time) and in the end the rule is, "if one of us is uncomfortable, than we discuss." That way it doesn't give "fear" a chance to dig in her Manolo Blahnik heels and wreak havoc. ;)

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Sorry for the massive cut and paste, but :thumbsup: to this.

I see that when I choose women I must look for the ones who aren't threatened and are secure in their "femininity" enough that what someone wears does not concern them in the least. I think honestly they have more fun when there is no clothes involved. So the ones who are strong and confident in their own sexuality are not scared by a male who is strong and secure in his (even if that involves dresses). I believe that is why the younger generation is more accepting of gender bending than the older ones.

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Originally Posted by sheidelmeidel

Some women my actually view "the woman in the mirror" as another woman - a form of cheating. Women can be very competitive and possessive about their men... :straightface:

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This is similar to what I was going to mention. Having a 'spirit wife' at the same time you have a physical wife can be viewed as a special breed of polygamy.

It's not exactly the same as having to wives, since one is partly ethereal and, for all purposes, you, but many of the emotional complications would probably mirror that.

However, your own discernment has to take over there. There are things for the one, and things for the other.

But still more important, I reckon, while the act of cross-dressing itself may not do much for a marriage, the potential self-knowledge and relatedness it can teach the CD can drastically improve relationships, even shaky ones. This makes the inner 'marriage' to the feminine side a question of becoming whole enough to sustain and revel in a real-world one.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

I see that when I choose women I must look for the ones who aren't threatened and are secure in their "femininity" enough that what someone wears does not concern them in the least. .

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See I wasn't that smart... I choose one who wore the same size clothes!! Duhhhhh.. :D

Obviously I should have put more thought into it.. Never figured she would ever find out.. Any my wife is over the lying thing.. She just assumes everything I say is a lie and that works for me!!

I don't think my wife could handle it full stop.

I have repeatedly over time tried to broach the subject, but her comments seem to make it clear that she only wants a man doing man things (and who can blame her - that seemed to be the deal when we married). However I have done all the macho thing and it does'nt work. I think she really does appreciate my femme side (cooking, cleaning and caring) but there does not seem to be that happy compromise that many of you attain.

My wife tolerates most of the things that I knowingly do and don't do in our relationship and puts up with Annie as long as I am discreet when I am out in public. She will not, however, go out with me when I am dressed as a woman. She has the fear of Annie being found out and fears how our neighbors, friends and co-workers would re-act. Her fear is greater than mine and she currently cannot get beyond her fear.

In a way, although she is married to a transgendered individual, she is very homophobic as she has said several times that she does not want to viewed as a lesbian. I sometimes cannot understand her statements as we have marital relations as two women and she is quite accepting of me as Annie in the bedroom.

Relationships are complex, even in the most ideal situations and given what we bring to the table, we should be happy with any amount of acceptance we can receive.

<On Soapbox> I don't have a lot of experience with women. I have only been married once and my wife and I will celebrate our 41st anniversary next month. But this is what I have experienced and observed in 60+ trips around the sun.

One- Marriages based on commitment to one another are more likely to survive than those based on fulfilling a need in your own life. The difference is in one case you are investing in the relationship and in the other, your looking at what you can take away from it. Younger people are particularly vulnerable to this. How often do you see youngsters playing video games hit the reset button because the game is not going as they want it to. Sadly this behavior translates to other areas of life as well, including marriage and relationships... if it isn't working out, terminate the relationship and start over. It requires no self-examination. On the other hand, If you have invested in the relationship, it forces you to look at what you have brought to the table and how it has affected the outcome.

Two- Know who you are committing to. Sounds obvious, but you would be amazed at how many couples I have counseled that said they didn't know some pretty basic things about their patners... political views, education level, the fact that he likes to play golf every weekend, that she squeezes the toothpaste tube from the middle, and so on. Unfortunately in this day of instant gratification where you can download music, pick up fast food on the way home, on-line banking, etc. Of course, if one believes a relationship is moving in direction where commitment is a real possibility, then it is equally the responsibility of BOTH parties to disclose details to one another. "But if I tell her I cross dress she might not love me any more." If you don't tell her, she's not in love with you anyway. She's in love with a character you are playing and your chances of a long term relationship are two... slim and none. Better to find out now, early on in the relationship, than later on when other innocent lives (children) are involved. Besides, isn't it better for your partner to love you for EVERYTHING you are?

Three- Communicate with one another. What too many couples fail to realize is that communication is a two part process... and talking is only ONE part of it. Listening is just as important. And it's the only way you have of determining if your partner understood what you said. If you're listening and don't fully understand something that is said, ask a clarifying question. One technique that is often successful is, "What I heard you say is... Is that what you meant?"

Okay, I've probably gone on too much here. The bottom line is no matter how pretty the house is, if the foundation is faulty, the house will become damaged, or worse, destroyed. And the foundations of love, are trust and truth. Trust me, the chemistry will take care of itself :D.

<Off Soapbox>

There are as many reasons as to how wife's and SO's react to cross dressing as there are cross dressers. Each case is individual in acceptance, fears, etc. The one constant, in my opinion, is that if there is open and honest communication the major hurdles can be passed. For example, when I first came out to my wife it was with a lot of discussion, research and more discussion. There were the usual ups and downs of acceptance levels that many here have discussed, but with time the acceptance has grown for me.

As an example, I just asked my wife if it would be OK to get dressed this weekend and to out to a local bar that cross dressers attend. I have never asked this before, although she knows that I have gone there when she was out of the country. Her response was that it is my life and that as long as no one would identify me as her husband it is OK. It has taken several years to get to this point because I did not push the issue.

There are spouses and SO's totally accept and participate, others that want no part of it, those that accept from a distance and those that end the relationship. So, what is the answer. Who knows?

My favorite is vinegar and oil! The LONGER u let it sit, the more it SEPARATES!:doh:

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

See I wasn't that smart... I choose one who wore the same size clothes!! Duhhhhh.. :D

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That doesn't matter, Karren! My ex was 5'4". She left her clothes from her 110 lb. days, in the closet when she moved out. I'm 5' 10", and 155. I STILL can fit into those clothes!:D

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Originally Posted by Holly

<On Soapbox> ...insert all of Holly's wise words here....<Off Soapbox>

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People will throw shoes at me if I quote that much text (and one shoe doesn't do me a damn bit of good...if you could throw pairs, in size 10, then we can talk) but I wanted to say I agree completely!! Very well said. :thumbsup:

Finding out their knight in shining armor, is really just wearing pantyhose, can be a major letdown. Just sayin.....

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Sorry a lot of wifes/partners just plain can't get past the lies and decet you CDERS use the PERVERT word .......... many of us GG's don't

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My wife does.

Of course crossdressing and marriage can coexist. But it takes a lot of factors, many of which have been mentioned here.

Most important are truth, honesty and committment from both parties, starting from before they each say, "I do!" Yes, I am talking (again!) about telling your intended before you marry her! That is being truthful, and not living a lie during your married life. And be honest and tell her the whole story about what your desires are. If you do desire to eventually become a woman, be honest and tell her. If you truly love her, that should be no problem! She does have a right to know that the man she intends to marry may become a woman at some future time.

I am a living example of how crossdressing and marriage can coexist. Many of you already know some of my story. At age 77, I have been crossdressing, in one fashion or another, for 70 years. At the age of 23 I became engaged to my childhood sweetheart, after telling her that I was a crossdresser. She totally accepted me "as is!" BTW, we had known each other since I was 9 and she was 7. We were married 7 months later, and wore matching white silk lingerie to our wedding.

We did set some "ground" rules for my CD activities. I agreed to never dress, at least outwardly, around our friends unless I was in full Stephanie mode including wig and makeup. Also, I agreed that we would not any children we had and I would not dress around them in any way! The most important rule, at least to me, was that I never forget that I was Her MAN! As my Tag line says, I am a man underneath, no matter what I am wearing. I have no desire to be a woman, and I made that very clear to my fiance when I told her! Often during our marriage, and just before she passed away, she told me that she considered me to be not only her husband, but also her boyfriend, her lover(my favorite!), and her best girlfriend! This all came about because we were both very truthful and honest with each other in our communication. Oh yes, our marriage lasted almost 50 years! Sure we had arguments, maybe even fights, but never about me being a CD. Every marriage will have arguments, because people don't always agree on everything! That is the way life is.:hugs:

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Originally Posted by Melinda G

Finding out their knight in shining armor, is really just wearing pantyhose, can be a major letdown. Just sayin.....

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Finding out their knight in shining armor doesn't

• enjoy dancing, drinking, and partying all night
• enjoy "chick flicks"
• want children
• know how to tear apart a car and put it back together again
• fold his own d--m clothes
• earn enough to buy a shiny car every couple of years
• think that smoking around children is a fine idea
• have the ambition/personality to get ahead at work by hook or by crook
• know all the right people to be on top of the town/city's social heap
• enjoy figure skating
• have connections to the right shady dealers to get a steady supply of dope, crack, horse, raitlin, prescription pain killers, prescription anti-depressants, after-hours booze

can be a major letdown. Just sayin.....

From all these responses, I can see this is indeed a very complex issue. I guess the bottom line here is honesty, openess and the willingness to share something this important to you with someone who is or may be very important to you. Since I have no experience in this, not much I can add to the discussion other than to say that I now have a much better understanding of a situation of this type if I ever get the opportunity to experience it...other than with my gg friend... :)

Yeah, just up until a few months ago, I was cd'ing just about every day, and it was just about all I ever thought about. Now I'm only doing it once every two weeks or so. I think the fear of getting caught by my wife kind of put it in perspective a bit for me, because it would most likely end my marriage. My wife has no clue that I have this fetish, and I definitely want to keep it that way. I love cd'ing when I get the urge, but if I was forced to choose between that or my wife, I'd take my wife in a heartbeat. That's just me.

How about your dreams...shattered. I know I dreamed of having the perfect wedding and marrying the man I love..than having the happy home with kids...dogs...cats...lots of cats. Then poof my dream gets shattered

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Originally Posted by joanne f

Cross dressing and marriage , why does it have the effect on some marriages so much more that other things that a person could do within a relationship .

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Are you asking why would CDing be a deal breaker when other issues wouldn't be?

Half the marriages in our culture fail. A small percentage of these fail due to a partner's CDing, since there is a small percentage of people who CD. Other issues cause most of the divorces: affairs, gambling, alcoholism, emotional or physical abuse. Or a lack of the skills necessary to keep a marriage going: ability to communicate, negotiate, and reach compromises, no matter the issue. I'm making this point to put things in perspective.

I don't think CDing is a greater cause for marital failure than anything else. But it is an issue that is as difficult to overcome as the others.

If there are other issues present, no matter what they are and to what degree, even if it is an inability to resolve built-up resentments over the partners feeling they have not been heard or other (non-CDing related) needs have not been met, then the CDing would tip the scale towards ending the marriage. But so would an affair or an different issue.

If it is an otherwise happy relationship with no other major issues and the marriage does break down over the CDing, it could be for a variety of reasons. The wife may have strong religious or moral objections. The breakdown of trust as the result of being lied to is also a pretty big issue. But if a wife is open-minded, then her fears of losing her husband to his femme self or her insecurity about her femininity would likely be felt only in the beginning while she is learning about how the CDing fits into their relationship. If the husband is mindful of his wife's needs and her early insecurites and (excepting being TS) the CDing is stable and he continues to want to be her husband, then it is likely the wife's fears will dissipate.

On being TS .. I don't know if most accepting wives (although we have exceptional women here who prove otherwise :) ) would be able to stay in their marriage if their husband realized over time he was TS. But this is a different issue than what I believe you to be asking.

So ... to eliminate causes for a marital breakdown:

• there are no other major issues in the relationship,
• both parties know how to deal with issues when they come up through communication & compromise,
• there are no religious or moral objections,
• the wife comes to understand why it took her husband so long to tell her and her trust is not eroded because of this,
• the husband continues from this point to be honest with his wife and he does not minimize or conceal deeper needs as they come up (such as the minor cosmetic necessities for a believable presentation ... shaving, long nails, ear piercings, clothing & accessories, etc), the wife understands this and things stabilize when the desired presentation is reached,
• they both agree on the degree of outedness and femme social life,
• the husband and wife are in a happy sexual relationship together (however they choose to define this), and the husband does not secretly over-fantasize having sex as a woman with other men,
• the shopping for clothing does not turn into an addiction of its own,

... then the marriage and the CDing can co-exist nicely. Judging by the threads here asking how many CDs are in happy marriages, there are many marriages where this is true. And lots of marriages are happy even when not all of the above conditions are met.

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Originally Posted by sissystephanie

Often during our marriage, and just before she passed away, she told me that she considered me to be not only her husband, but also her boyfriend, her lover(my favorite!), and her best girlfriend! This all came about because we were both very truthful and honest with each other in our communication. Oh yes, our marriage lasted almost 50 years! Sure we had arguments, maybe even fights, but never about me being a CD. Every marriage will have arguments, because people don't always agree on everything! That is the way life is.:hugs:

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Stephanie ~ That is a beautiful journey. Made me teary. :hugs:

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

I think a lot of wives just can't get past the "pervert" issue.... plain and simple.

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I guess this is true for some wives who have that kinda mindset, but IMHO there are many more reasons why women might feel threatened and they have nothing to do with thinking deviant or pervert type thoughts. I think ReineD, FireflyGG, and Danielle Gee eluded to them.

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Originally Posted by Margot

I agree with Denise. My wife will not think of me as a girlfriend just her husband who has the gift of caring, compassion, understanding and ,oh yes, the love to be as feminine as possible.

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This is how my wife is. She's told me that no matter how I feminine I dress or look "I will never pass in her eyes" as she can "always see the boy". Now don't get me wrong, by that I mean not that I don't look feminine enough, but that there are little things about me, like the way I am, my mannerisms etc, that make my wife always know that underneath it all it's still her husband that she knows and loves.

The other thing in my particular situation, (which is not typical I grant you), is that my wife looked to date a CDer before she met me. She wanted (and still likes) a feminine partner. She is not bi or anything like that it's that she doesn't particularly like most men that much, but she is straight and wants to married to a guy, except she wants her guy to be more like a girl, especially in his attitude and behavior. For her, the clothes and my love of all things feminine is a natural and therefore (for her) a non threatening progression.

However, I do want to tell you that before we got married she was VERY careful to make sure I was exactly what she was looking for and she knew precisely what she was getting into as she practically grilled me on every tiny thought and feeling I had on my "transgender-ness" and where I was going with it. In particular she wanted to be as sure as she could be that I was not going to transition. She wanted to marry a crossdresser. She knows that (in theory) it is still a possibility that one day it "could" happen but before marrying me she wanted to be sure it would be very unlikely. I can't promise her that I never will, just like she can't promise me that she won't one day fall out of love with me, but both of us know deep down inside that both these scenarios are highly unlikely.

I think this is why my wife is so supportive and encouraging of my crossdressing and feminine expression, because she is self assured enough that am going to remain a crossdresser, and in particular that I will not be making any permanent surgical changes to my body other than laser hair removal and electrolysis for my face. I can tell that periodically she likes to be reminded of this fact, just like it's nice to have your partner look you in the eye and tell you that they love you. It's affirming and gives you a feeling of safety.

Anyway, like I said, I do feel that my situation is different from others as my wife knew from the get-go and the biggest thing is that she likes girly guys. Back in the 1980's when all those New Romantics were wearing feminine clothing and makeup, but where still clearly guys - albeit feminine ones - was where she was in her element :) Even today, cute boys makeup make her go weak at the knees :)

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Originally Posted by Kolokea GG

How about your dreams...shattered. I know I dreamed of having the perfect wedding and marrying the man I love..than having the happy home with kids...dogs...cats...lots of cats. Then poof my dream gets shattered

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I've had more than a few dreams of my own shattered in my relationship -- and for every one of them that someone might point to and say "That's because you are a CD/TG!", I can point out how my being not being CD/TG would not have stopped the situation from happening, or I can point to significant disappointments from before I even had any idea I was CD let alone TG.

For example, those dreams I had of continuing indefinitely to be "young" and vital and self-confident and being world-class in my professional skills: they came crashing down when I was hit by a serious (clinical) Depression (which is a biomedical problem with consequences far beyond a vague dissatisfaction with the course of one's life.) I used to be high on knowing how much I was contributing to the world, and I used to be free, knowing that I could get a job (or do contracts) nearly anywhere in the developed world. Now instead I fear losing my job, and I look at how long until I can retire with a full pension and I say "Oh God, so so long from now!"

You looking for some dream-shards? I got a bunch of them right here. Like seeing the fear and hurt in my wife's eyes this morning when, for the first time, she admitted that she doesn't know how she is going to be able to survive another 2 or more years of having her mother living with us, deteriorating from Alzheimer's... it was only about 6 months ago that my wife was so strongly committed to having her mother stay as long as was physically possible that if I had insisted to her "No, your mother must go into care!" then my wife would have moved out -- she told me as much. By now, the things my wife finds herself saying to her mother break my wife's spirit... all the more so because the words are true.

Last night, the chain-locks we recently installed to keep her mother locked inside did their duty, kept her mother from wandering outside in her payjamas in sub-freezing temperatures; all of the doors were tried, which only happens when her mother goes irrational in her desire to GO!... her mother will attack anyone who gets in her way when she's like that, and she has absolutely no sense of where she is or where she is going or how to get back, so the chains effectively kept her from going out and getting lost and probably getting injured by exposure to the cold. We know intellectually that we did the right thing, that we may have saved her mother's life -- but it is a terrible thing to lock someone in, an act that emotionally scars us.


I should go home now and help my wife sweep up some those broken dreams.

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Originally Posted by FireflyGG

Stephanie ~ That is a beautiful journey. Made me teary. :hugs:

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It was a truly beautiful journey, and still is, in my mind. I admit to getting a little teary eyed when I wrote that post! My feminine side?

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Originally Posted by Wen4cd

special breed of polygamy.

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I was thinking of "adultery". Not that it matters. :D

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

I think a lot of wives just can't get past the "pervert" issue.... plain and simple.... everything else is secondary......

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I have to agree with Karren. My wife asked me how I like the forum and I told her I loved it. I told her there are a lot of fantastic people here. I then asked her if she wanted to join. I told her there was a special section just for wives and girlfriends for support for each other. Well I thought she was going to fall off her chair. She had a shocked look on her face, laughed and said no way! :eek:

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Originally Posted by Vicki-Z

She had a shocked look on her face, laughed and said no way! :eek:

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She hasn't yet realized that you have no choice in this. She is still thinking about it as a weird hobby. She needs to come to see that it is a part of who you are.

I really like your response ReineD. Thanks for that.

Mel :)

I joined this forum a week after my wife and I first discovered Tina. I had the naieve notion that all husbands and wives would explore each other's minds together, and with us it was just "goofing around" after 32 years of marriage, chuckling about fitting into an old piece of lingerie of hers, chuckling about buying stockings and super high heels to match, wanting to see me "dressed", and then shocking me by telling me that we NEEDED to buy me a dress!

Ok, she admits that she never thought it would last this long, this exploration of Tina, but it started out as a "goof" together, and it just snow-balled. But...it snowballed together. The dress didn't fit because I had no breasts to fill it out, so bra, breastforms, then wig, then makeup, then skirt and top...you all know the routine of that slippery slope.

But it was more than that. It was a reaffirmation of a commitment to each other, it was agreeing that it would be private between the two of us, it was the private e-mail address for Tina so the new "girlfriends" could correspond without confustion about who was the correspondant, it was the clarity that the masculine and feminine sides of me are separate so that we could look at those two sides of me separately, it was a commitment that when she wanted her man HE would be there.

Then there were the long discussions about what it is like to grow up being a girl, the socializations, the expectations, the details that girls learn, the emotional responses that men don't have a clue about, the odd looks at Tina when Tina suddenly did something as a "guy" would without even knowing it, the idea of separating activities that Tina and she did from those of husband and wife (Tina even had some chores labeled for her getting ready for thanksgiving), the idea of Tina as girlfriend, the details of growing up as a guy coming out as well and being put into perspective, and it just goes on and on.

So, in that context I come onto this forum and read about all the pain and actual suffering from both sides. Of all the murky issues surrounding this issue, a few stand out in my mind:

• Our wives need to be kept secure in the realty that we will not stop being the the husbands that they married, that a feminine side does not diminished their roles as husband. Bait and switch is a deadly game in marriage.
• A cross-dressing husband has the potential to be a superb mate, understanding more about his wife than most (if not all) men who don't experience presenting as a woman.
• If experiencing his feminine side is done together, the connections that can be made between spouses are truly incredible, strengthening the bonds of that marriage.
• For any wives reading this, please know that opening our psyches to you about this topic can be the most frightening act in your marriage. We put our lives as we know it in your hands, trusting you completely.

I truly hope that this thread can help to bring couples together over the topic of their masculinity and femininity, to share in what can be an incredible-shared experience of caring and love.

tina

I know Reine it just takes time and patience. Thanks.

Vicki-Z :thanx:

We all have this "fear". We can't help it, crossdressing seems to be worse to some women than murder is. I didn't want to get involved with that so I told my wife about my dressing. Now I'm divorced. I guess I had the right to be afraid and will be when I tell my next SO. I'll be sure to tell her early in the relationship.

Thank you for reminding me, Sherri!

I feel so lucky to have "discovered" Tina WITH my wife and not before knowing my wife. As I mentioned two posts ago, I think it is a remarkably fearful thing to open up such a private thing as having an active feminine life to another person. In my case, I already fully trusted my wife and I had no fear.

However, if I were to be in the situation of having to broach the subject to another potential mate, I can't begin to even understand all the potential negative ramifications, especially if I didn't want to be "outed". The fact is that opening up to a potential mate with this "privacy" could change the direction of one's life. Notwithstanding the many successfully public girls here, if that direction isn't one's choice, I can see that I would approach the whole subject very carefully.

Having said that, I would not want to enter into a permanent relationship with any major secrets on either side, so broach the subject I would!

:)

tina

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Originally Posted by suchacutie

• Our wives need to be kept secure in the realty that we will not stop being the the husbands that they married, that a feminine side does not diminished their roles as husband. Bait and switch is a deadly game in marriage.
• A cross-dressing husband has the potential to be a superb mate, understanding more about his wife than most (if not all) men who don't experience presenting as a woman.
• If experiencing his feminine side is done together, the connections that can be made between spouses are truly incredible, strengthening the bonds of that marriage.
• For any wives reading this, please know that opening our psyches to you about this topic can be the most frightening act in your marriage. We put our lives as we know it in your hands, trusting you completely.

I truly hope that this thread can help to bring couples together over the topic of their masculinity and femininity, to share in what can be an incredible-shared experience of caring and love.

tina

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You said this incredibly well, Tina. When my partner came out to me, Melissa already existed. But she was created without the intention of ever being out of the closet to anyone he was in a relationship with. That influenced some of the decisions he made then, that I think he would do differently now. But that was a struggle for me and it took a lot of dialoguing for us to work through some of my insecurities and some of his regrets. I told him that there will be times when I will ask a question and he'll answer it, and I'll ask it 20 times over again in the future. No because I don't believe him, but because I need some reassurance. It helped him to know where the questioning was coming from and it helped me to express to him what I needed him to do in order for me to feel more secure.

So going forward, Melissa is being re-invented. Her role is different and I'm really looking forward to a couple of things. How I respond to her in the long term (because I am sexually attracted to her) and also just nuturing that side of my partner that has never been acknowledged before by anyone in his life that he's been close to. Whenever he needs to bring her out, or I want her to come out and play ;) she's now not just an object for sexual gratification, she's a whole person with a lot of different facets. It's like going from 2-D to 3-D. She's a real person that needs to be valued and respected and appreciated.

But when he's in guy mode, he's a guy's guy. We have a lot of the same interests and I swoon over his masculine side. When his femme side comes out, it gives me a chance to act on my more dominant side. Something I thoroughly enjoy. But overall, the fact that he's sensitive and emotional makes me feel like I'm being taken care of in ways that my non-CDing ex's could ever provide. His femme side is a huge bonus.

i think a lot of women don't really care if their husbands dress up as long as they are honest about it from the start. looking around, i have noticed that the majority of success stories in which wives accept and support cding involve just that. i have also noticed that a lot of those with unaccepting wives have hidden dressing from them for years or they were caught red handed, so they feel they have been lied to. a little truth can go a long way. my opinion may be a little biased, because i am one of those with a partner that accepts and supports me 100 percent. i feel if i had not told her up front, it would be the exact opposite. i'm not saying that every woman is like this, but its just a thought.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Half the marriages in our culture fail.

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I wish to correct you on this point. This is a common misconception. See the link.

http://keithsouza.com/blog/2009/02/2...l-do-the-math/

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

Finding out their knight in shining armor doesn't

• enjoy dancing, drinking, and partying all night
• enjoy "chick flicks"
• want children
• know how to tear apart a car and put it back together again
• fold his own d--m clothes
• earn enough to buy a shiny car every couple of years
• think that smoking around children is a fine idea
• have the ambition/personality to get ahead at work by hook or by crook
• know all the right people to be on top of the town/city's social heap
• enjoy figure skating
• have connections to the right shady dealers to get a steady supply of dope, crack, horse, raitlin, prescription pain killers, prescription anti-depressants, after-hours booze

can be a major letdown. Just sayin.....

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Your sarcasm aside...Melinda has a valid point. How many cross dressers find themselves tossed to the curb because their wife or SO just couldn't stomach it? Whatever her reason..right or wrong? ( in your eyes) Something inside compels you to cd.. something inside of them may compel them to not want to be a part of it. Whether you feel that you are right or they feel that they are....is really of no consequence, when you come right down to brass tacks.

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Originally Posted by Shadeauxmarie

I wish to correct you on this point. This is a common misconception. See the link.

http://keithsouza.com/blog/2009/02/2...l-do-the-math/

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Thanks Marie, I found the 3.5 divorced vs. 7.1 married (per 1,000) CDC provisional data for 2008 that computes to a 49% divorce rate.

But where does the person you linked to get the Census Bureau 55M marriages? I couldn't find that figure and besides, the Census Bureau does not collect marriage and divorce rates by year as does the CDC. They only provide current marital status, which does not give us a divorce rate in any given year.

Oh, and the reason the CDC doesn't report the total number of divorces (just a national rate) is because they do not have the figures for California, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Louisiana, and Minnesota. They compensate by excluding the populations for divorce rates for those states.

To the OP ... it would be an eye-opener if the CDC also included the reasons for all the divorces! :straightface:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by suchacutie

• Our wives need to be kept secure in the realty that we will not stop being the the husbands that they married, that a feminine side does not diminished their roles as husband. Bait and switch is a deadly game in marriage.
• A cross-dressing husband has the potential to be a superb mate, understanding more about his wife than most (if not all) men who don't experience presenting as a woman.
• If experiencing his feminine side is done together, the connections that can be made between spouses are truly incredible, strengthening the bonds of that marriage.
• For any wives reading this, please know that opening our psyches to you about this topic can be the most frightening act in your marriage. We put our lives as we know it in your hands, trusting you completely.

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Beautifully said, Tina! :hugs:

I've been a CD/TV gal for over 50 years. I have been married to my beautiful soul mate for 35. She has known about my dressing for about 25 of those 35. Although she seems to understands, and lets me dress, she just can't seem to make the next step.. being present while I dress, and maybe even helping.

I know she's aware that my dressing up is part of my overall personality, and that is part of my overall makeup of why she fell in love with me. She even loves to have me watch shows like "Dancing With the Stars", where we both comment on beautiful women and the beautiful dresses they are wearng!

It would be so lovely if we could both make that next step where I can be Geena with her present. Lately, I am constantly "on edge" about this. I get my nerve up during the day, and rehearse in my mind how to speak to her about this, only to chicken out in the evening.

I can only dress up when she's at work, out for the day, on trips or if I get up early before she gets up. She knows this all too well. I want to have a conversation with her in which we both realize that it would be better for both of us if I could dress up while she was at home.

Any of you girls have any ideas on how I can do this next step without screwing everything up?

Huggers!
Geena