Long time member - back after 16 years - I'm trapped.

It's been a while since I've posted here, and needless to say, my life is utterly and completely different than the last time I was here. Not wanting to bore everyone with some long story, here are the Cliff Notes:

> back in 2006-2011, was young and living out in DC/NOVA area, able to go out dressed whenever, though it wasn't something I did a ton of because gf at the time was accepting, but understandably not thrilled with it. We broke up eventually, I dated around, and was with someone that at first was accepting and actively participated with me, but as we got more serious, turned out she actually didn't like it at all. I left her because of it. Now I had the freedom to do whatever I wanted, explore as much as I desired.

> 2012-2015: met new girl who was fantastic: I told her relatively early on (within the first few months), and she actively encouraged me to come out, don't hide it, hang your women's clothing right next to your men's, went shopping together, did nails and makeup together, etc. I was head over heels, and eventually we got married. How could I not?

> 2015 and onward: we lived together, eventually had kids. The dressing? Complete taboo now. She never wanted to be part of it, doesn't want to see it, disgusts her, and I'm now way back in the closet. We moved back to my home state in the Midwest (Madison, WI), and I no longer have access to the wonderful community I did back out east.

Present day: I work from home and can dress a couple of hours each week, but cabin fever/Groundhog's Day doesn't begin to describe the feeling. I have no friends, nowhere to go. She knows I dress, and will make back-handed comments from time to time ("eww", "you still do that?"), and any attempt at conversation about it ends in an argument no matter how I bring it up (calmly, aloofly, involving, non-standoffish, etc).

The absolute worst part about this all... is that at one point she told me that she only pretended to accept it so that she could "land me". "If you'd have told me sooner, I would have left, but I was already in love". Fair enough, I get it, I really do, and after my previous relationships I thought I'd handled things by the book (be open about it, tell her early, don't let it take over, be understanding, etc). But now I'm locked in forever with someone who resents a big part of me, who will never accept it and never again participate. Like my previous relationship, had I known this would have been the outcome, I would have left a long damn time ago. I'm angry, hurt, resentful, but I also love my family and would never do anything to inflict harm or pain on anyone.

On the day-to-day, there's no outward sign of Marissa, I keep it locked up and hidden, not wanting to rock the apple cart. Yet, there'll be times that she'll tell me about new clothes or shoes she bought, or what dress should she wear, "I love my new nail color", she wears an absolute amazing/sexy outfit on a date. I do support her and give her honest feedback, but underneath it drives me absolutely insane and dejected because I have to fake it and can only give her my opinion as a guy. At one point I told her how I felt about it, that when she talks about fashion/girly stuff I want to do it too! That I give advice from my feminine side (as if I would wear it), and nope.... "I have girlfriends for that, I don't need your input like that"... just.. hurts, and now I respond by kindly telling her to just ask her friends. It's the one thing we could connect on, the one lifeline, and it's verboten. Sometimes I think she does it on purpose, telling me all this stuff to see how I react, like she knows it burns me and I can't do anything about it. And it's not all about me: I realize she wants to look good, she deserves to be complimented and made to feel appreciated as the woman, and I DO! I learned long ago how to be the man when I need to be, for her sake. It's just that... there's my other side that also has a voice, and it's being repressed.

Just having someone that I can talk to about it without being rejected would go so damn far in making me feel... good/calm/normal/accepted/loved, even. I'm just exhausted by it all, like holding a beachball under water. I do my best to be a great husband and father everyday, but there's a small, constant burning flame of resentment simmering just beneath the surface. For my sanity, I try to compartmentalize it and enjoy the small time I do have to do it, but I'm alone on an island. I was talking to a therapist earlier this year, and maybe I should keep on, but first I wanted to try sharing here with more like-minded folk and community, in the hope I can at least have someone to share with.

So, if you're still reading after my wall of text: thank you. Everyone has a story, but I just don't have anyone to talk to, and stuff gets bottled up.

Marissa, first sorry to hear your sad story. It really sounds like you did try and do it the right and honest way. Which does say a lot about your character and personality. You will find massive support here. We all want you here and yes we all have stories from which hopefully others can learn. Welcome from me, a dresser from the UK. Thank you for sharing. Take care of yourself please.

Your story is proof that a spouse who appears accepting today, may not be in the future. There just seems to be no way of knowing for sure. Thanks for sharing your story. It must be difficult for you.

Many of us are not able to dress up at home and know how it feels. At least my wife makes no negative comments about things from the past as long as I keep things in the closet so to speak.

Sandi

Marissa, my "simmering resentment" is what caused our divorce. Our therapists said I began letting my ex control me when I found it easier to bear it then get into another nasty fite!:straightface:

But, by the time I began telling her I wasn't going to put up with her BS anymore it was too late. Our communication and intimacy was over. Soon our marriage was, too!:sad:

Men need to stand up for yourselves unless u were in a fem dom relationship from the beginning. Or your resentment may build up and kill your relationship as mine did!:doh:

Marissa
My deepest sympathy. I know how difficult it is to be in your situation. There are so few women that understand and really accept our desire to dress. I've been thru 2 divorces one knew about my fem fashion and verbally accepted and supported it. I sometime think it was a facade and probably a reason for our divorce. I was very guarded from that point on and even when I came out to a very liberal college professor who I loved and still hold dear to my heart. After a year I thought if anyone would be accepting it would have been her. I did a full disclosure and she spoke to me twice after that. I cant say I don't miss her but I know I could never live in the closet with a significant other. My desire and need to express my fem side is to strong to be restrained by stipulations.
We all make choices and set boundaries that we are willing to live by. Know who you are, Know what your needs are, and know what you're willing to sacrifice for the things you desire most. Make sure you talk to your wife and she is absolute in her needs and desires. Work on compromises to save the relationships if it is of equal value to both of you. My sinical self would ask if she isn't looking for a way out of the relationship without being the bad guy. The stress of any relationship is huge and every relationship is different. Maybe you should go to couples counseling. You both have issues with your desire to dress that affect the relationship.

Also Know that kids know when there is stress and underlying discomfort in the household. All they want is acceptance and love. My daughter once told me I don't care that you and mom don't get along and it is good that you are apart, I just need to know that you both love me and I'm not going to lose my dad or mom in the divorce. Kids are adaptable especially young ones.
Understand I'm not telling you to go separate ways. First work on a solution that works for both of you if you can.

If not then remember what my grandfather used to say. It's better to be alone than to be in bad or hostile company. You both have a right to some happiness.

You have my upmost understanding. I wish you the best on whatever path you travel. Every journey starts with the first step so your choice, stand still or step forward.

Hugs RAVen

Definitely keep talking to your therapist. It?s so interesting to see the tables turned? a wife who claims to have pretended to be into your crossdressing in order to land you. What Irony! But maybe it?s a bit more complicated. It could be she had a change of heart when kids became part of the picture. That does happen. It happened in my first marriage. Maternal instincts are powerful

On the other hand, if she really was being that dishonest, she really owes you an apology and should afford you some consideration. Sixteen years of self-denial combined with ridicule?thats a lot to bear.

Sorry to hear of your situation, it happens too frequently too those of us who prefer a different wardrobe.
I once heard someone say, "A woman marries a man and hope he'll change, but he doesn't. A man marries a woman going she'll never change, but she does."

I too know of a wife who presented herself one way, we bought a house, got married, had a child, and now decided she doesn't like cycling any more - though that was how we met and our main bond - and that she doesn't like sex any more - despite telling me many times about how much of a nympho she was when she was younger. Thanks for that. I love being told how much my wife loved sex with everybody else whilst she denies it to me.

It's painful when somebody changes, but I cannot claim to be a saint considering I went into this relationship thinking that I wasn't interested in dressing, and then started again, she found out, now it's DADT. Funny thing being that now I have zero desire to dress these days (full circle) it's not something I can say "Hey, so I don't dress any more" because she won't discuss it at all.

I'm so sorry, and please post more for the emotional support. The only possible advice I could offer is, the children come first obviously but you deserve to be happy too, dress away. I'll bite my tongue for now as to the " trap" by your SO.

I'm so sorry for you, to read of your pain. I'm very new to this so my response is limited. If she will accept therapy then that would be best I think, but my wife won't so be prepared for a refusal to talk. Some really wise words from others so I'll just finish by saying that you may need (after you've tried everything) to decide if you can hide so much of your complete self for the decades ahead. I'm unraveling a lifetime of good boy conformance (in all spheres) and I'll not be going back.

Keep chatting to us. The very best wishes to you x

I am so sorry for your situation. It appears that it has also devolved into rejection, isolation and even ridicule. The amount of time you have had to endure this has taken its toll on your psyche and self esteem. You have done the right thing by seeking therapy for yourself, but you have done nothing wrong, you have even been upfront from the onset. In my opinion a more important type of therapy would be to seek counseling for your marriage. Your wife must hear what you have to say on these matters, and if she is unwilling to talk to you directly about it perhaps a therapist could serve as the mediator for you to get those feeling known. In any case she needs to exactly how you feel and why, and you need to understand why things have changed so radically.

I hope you can find some solace, and more importantly direction, by reaching out to us on this forum.

She tricks you and if you were to divorce she would still win half. Divorce should be more like getting fired. if you quit you lose the parting gift. Yes it's more complicated than that but tricking someone should come with consequences.

Generally speaking isn't it common for women to try to change you and men to complain when you change and you're not the woman they married?

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Originally Posted by Marissa Mae

Just having someone that I can talk to about it without being rejected would go so damn far in making me feel... good/calm/normal/accepted/loved, even.

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I've been talking to my therapist for the last year and a half about my need to express femininity. It has been good to have someone to talk to as I've been trying to figure out how it all fits within my self image. But, I've learned that I need to add the word "enough" to good/calm/normal/accepted/loved. There will always be a tension when our identities and other's expectations misalign.

Welcome back to the forum and I hope you get the support you need.

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Originally Posted by StephanieCD

Marissa, first sorry to hear your sad story. It really sounds like you did try and do it the right and honest way. Which does say a lot about your character and personality. You will find massive support here. We all want you here and yes we all have stories from which hopefully others can learn. Welcome from me, a dresser from the UK. Thank you for sharing. Take care of yourself please.

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Hi Stephanie, thank you for your kind words, and the warm welcome. I'm nearly overwhelmed by the responses, and know that I've made the right choice in sharing with you here.

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Originally Posted by Sandi Beech

Your story is proof that a spouse who appears accepting today, may not be in the future. There just seems to be no way of knowing for sure. Thanks for sharing your story. It must be difficult for you.

Many of us are not able to dress up at home and know how it feels. At least my wife makes no negative comments about things from the past as long as I keep things in the closet so to speak.

Sandi

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Sandi, thank you for reading and responding. The change in the dynamic was gradual, just one day it was an off-limits thing, and ever since then the frustration started to grow and be repressed. Funny as you mention the negative comments, as I sit here and type this, wife found a pair of my socks in the wash and just had to say something "oh, a pair of Marissa socks, eh?"... to which I replied: "they're just socks". My aim now is to just normalize it: they're not "Marissa's clothes", they're just clothes.

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

Marissa, my "simmering resentment" is what caused our divorce. Our therapists said I began letting my ex control me when I found it easier to bear it then get into another nasty fite!:straightface:

But, by the time I began telling her I wasn't going to put up with her BS anymore it was too late. Our communication and intimacy was over. Soon our marriage was, too!:sad:

Men need to stand up for yourselves unless u were in a fem dom relationship from the beginning. Or your resentment may build up and kill your relationship as mine did!:doh:

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Sherry, so sorry to hear how your relationship/marriage ended. The building up of resentment is a festering ocean of negative thoughts and energy, and it saps whatever joy I have in life and makes me on-edge everyday. It affects how I interact with the kids as well, as I'm so short tempered with them at times.

The wife and I have talked about seeing a therapist together to discuss things, we just need to find the time in our lives to get it on the calendar. On most topics we have pretty good/ to great, communication, but sensitive topics are much more difficult to breech.

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Originally Posted by Raven Skyy

Marissa
My deepest sympathy. I know how difficult it is to be in your situation. There are so few women that understand and really accept our desire to dress. I've been thru 2 divorces one knew about my fem fashion and verbally accepted and supported it. I sometime think it was a facade and probably a reason for our divorce. I was very guarded from that point on and even when I came out to a very liberal college professor who I loved and still hold dear to my heart. After a year I thought if anyone would be accepting it would have been her. I did a full disclosure and she spoke to me twice after that. I cant say I don't miss her but I know I could never live in the closet with a significant other. My desire and need to express my fem side is to strong to be restrained by stipulations.
We all make choices and set boundaries that we are willing to live by. Know who you are, Know what your needs are, and know what you're willing to sacrifice for the things you desire most. Make sure you talk to your wife and she is absolute in her needs and desires. Work on compromises to save the relationships if it is of equal value to both of you. My sinical self would ask if she isn't looking for a way out of the relationship without being the bad guy. The stress of any relationship is huge and every relationship is different. Maybe you should go to couples counseling. You both have issues with your desire to dress that affect the relationship.

Also Know that kids know when there is stress and underlying discomfort in the household. All they want is acceptance and love. My daughter once told me I don't care that you and mom don't get along and it is good that you are apart, I just need to know that you both love me and I'm not going to lose my dad or mom in the divorce. Kids are adaptable especially young ones.
Understand I'm not telling you to go separate ways. First work on a solution that works for both of you if you can.

If not then remember what my grandfather used to say. It's better to be alone than to be in bad or hostile company. You both have a right to some happiness.

You have my upmost understanding. I wish you the best on whatever path you travel. Every journey starts with the first step so your choice, stand still or step forward.

Hugs RAVen

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Hi Raven, thank you for such a profound insight that touches on what makes this a doozy of a subject: the children. We'd do anything for our kids, protect them and love them through thick and thin, and I just can't bear the thought of this fracturing or destroying our home. The relationship with the wife is so tough as it is, raising the little ones is very hard for me (having kids/being a parent was never something I really wanted), so that takes center stage, while the dressing and other stuff is on the back burner (no time to talk about it, kids need attention ASAP). I know they'll get older and more independent at some point, which will free up some of our time and sanity (hopefully), but one of her fears is when the kids do get older and more in tune with what's going on, what happens when they find out dad wears dresses and heels?

I think we're just stuck in a repetitive cycle of negative feedback loops, every day is a slog, nothing changes, routine is king. Breaking out of that and getting some fresh perspectives is what we need, otherwise nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

Definitely keep talking to your therapist. It?s so interesting to see the tables turned? a wife who claims to have pretended to be into your crossdressing in order to land you. What Irony! But maybe it?s a bit more complicated. It could be she had a change of heart when kids became part of the picture. That does happen. It happened in my first marriage. Maternal instincts are powerful

On the other hand, if she really was being that dishonest, she really owes you an apology and should afford you some consideration. Sixteen years of self-denial combined with ridicule?thats a lot to bear.

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Originally Posted by Kelli_cd

Sorry to hear of your situation, it happens too frequently too those of us who prefer a different wardrobe.
I once heard someone say, "A woman marries a man and hope he'll change, but he doesn't. A man marries a woman going she'll never change, but she does."

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It's really depressing, the 180 that occurred, remembering how amazing the first couple of years were, it was the best I'd ever felt because there was nothing being hidden anymore and I got to fully be who I am. To have it snatched away leaves me feeling so empty.

Having kids enter the picture, and the world-changing effects that had on her and I, cannot be understated. The mother bear instincts are not to be bargained with, and I can fully understand her wanting to protect her family and children. I think the main threats for her have to be the societal and familial impact that would occur if someone were to find out, or how it'll affect the children. Totally understandable from her point of view.

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Originally Posted by CharlotteCD

I too know of a wife who presented herself one way, we bought a house, got married, had a child, and now decided she doesn't like cycling any more - though that was how we met and our main bond - and that she doesn't like sex any more - despite telling me many times about how much of a nympho she was when she was younger. Thanks for that. I love being told how much my wife loved sex with everybody else whilst she denies it to me.

It's painful when somebody changes, but I cannot claim to be a saint considering I went into this relationship thinking that I wasn't interested in dressing, and then started again, she found out, now it's DADT. Funny thing being that now I have zero desire to dress these days (full circle) it's not something I can say "Hey, so I don't dress any more" because she won't discuss it at all.

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Charlotte, thank you for replying, and for sharing. The intimacy between my wife and I, that's completely changed since the kids arrived (almost like she got what she wanted, and doesn't need me for that anymore)... she uses the dressing in such a way: "you know that when you dress, it makes me want you less, it pushes me further away". She uses it against me whenever she wants to strike a blow, it seems, whereas in the early days she actively allowed me to incorporate it. I get being the man for her and stuff, she wants to be with a man and not a woman, and that makes sense, but nowadays it just seems like a cop-out for her when she isn't in the mood.

Fully DADT now, yet she brings it up more often than I do, and it's always in the negative. It's NEVER anything remotely supportive or positive.

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Thank you for the warm welcome back, Bea :) What you said regarding "enough" really resonates with me, and balance has been something that I've consciously had to strive to find. It goes back to finding our boundaries (my wife and I), respecting them, acknowledging one anothers needs. Yet... I feels like I'm the one always compromising and giving away more of my freedom to ensure she isn't "overwhelmed", and so there's just nowhere near "enough" for me, and I am desperately trying to find some answers to help me out.

I ask myself though: if the reverse were true, if she fully allowed me to dress whenever/however, would the brakes on the train fail and I'd explode in a cloud of pink? Would I want to become a woman? Would the family find out? I think that's where my wife may be scared, that she'd give an inch and I'd take a mile, and no amount of reassurance from me seems to matter.

I see guys do this alot when the kids are little or someone is pregnant ..
I'll hold back though ..

Anyway

We all have responsibilities that we have to see through and this is one of them . What happened is ,instead of saying "landing" you , she allowed it because she was in love with you and did not want to lose you is more likely .. Alot of us including me have done this and its common plus she was very young also ( comparatively ). She was doing all that she could do at the time to try to accept it .. Then also we don't know what your dressing was like , if you took it too far which many do when they get a green light etc so there are alot of variables here that we really don't know .
There are alot of behaviors that come along with dressing that are the big turn offs . Way more than the dressing itself so you have to really look at your self and look back over your relationship too ... its rarely only one persons fault . Kids are stressful and she probably needs your help instead of worrying about this . Life really changes when kids are in the picture and no I do not think that dumping your family for dressing 24/7 is the right thing to do .. not saying that you think that but plenty here do .

I always hate it when someone disparages a female spouse here without hearing the other side but it is what it is.

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Hi Raven, thank you for such a profound insight that touches on what makes this a doozy of a subject: the children. We'd do anything for our kids, protect them and love them through thick and thin, and I just can't bear the thought of this fracturing or destroying our home. The relationship with the wife is so tough as it is, raising the little ones is very hard for me (having kids/being a parent was never something I really wanted), so that takes center stage, while the dressing and other stuff is on the back burner (no time to talk about it, kids need attention ASAP). I know they'll get older and more independent at some point, which will free up some of our time and sanity (hopefully), but one of her fears is when the kids do get older and more in tune with what's going on, what happens when they find out dad wears dresses and heels?

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I was struck by this (and so many other DADT posts on this forum). I am new to this so it's not borne from experience so please bear that in mind, but it's possible my (frankly amazing) wife will leave me depending upon where it goes. I don't want that, BUT it is a continuous equation to balance - can we continue being together if we can't be fully ourselves - if we have to hide ourselves? At what point does hiding our deepest nature come at too high a cost? At what point are the compromises too much?

Regarding your kids knowing their father wears dresses and heels. Well I think the old views on this ARE diminishing rapidly. Of course it depends upon where you live, circumstances, etc. A small example: I've only yesterday started wearing nail varnish in public (outer London UK suburb). I was terrified I would be judged, ostracised, laughed at. But I've been to shops, a cafe and the shared office space and not one comment. So much of our fear is in our heads - and perhaps your wife knows she can use that fear against you. Your kids will adapt. Your kids want the best father and you've already said you're grumpy with them (I know I wasn't the best to my kids because of hiding so much). My view is they will respect honesty/reality - they will come to know that it's ok to be different, and that daddy will be a good, non-judgemental person to talk to. That is such a powerful example to them. I must reiterate that I haven't told my two older boys (27 and 19) so it is academic at the moment. Perhaps they will see the nail varnish over the Christmas holiday as a first step. My 19 year-old already saw my shaved legs and he didn't bat an eyelid and just advised me how to avoid shaving rash. Amazing.

Perhaps you need to call your wife's bluff. It's your home as much after all.

EDIT: I see so much painful denial of self in your story.

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I was talking to a therapist earlier this year, and maybe I should keep on, but first I wanted to try sharing here with more like-minded folk and community, in the hope I can at least have someone to share with.

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Talking to a therapist is a good idea. Working with a therapist won't however "cure" you of crossdressing, nor will it change your partner's attitude. At some point that work needs to be manifested into change. If your partner won't give any priority to your relationship, to your needs, then no amount of therapy is going to make everything ok.

Good luck!

Hi Marissa I can identify with much of what you write in your opening post. As people our desires and needs evolve over time. Humans are a fickle bunch. I do not expect my wife to be the same person she was when we married. Like wise I am not the same person I was 10 years ago. At the moment my CDing is on the back burner, which is a choice I am making. This is because although my wife has expressed support for my cross dressing, even offering to do my makeup, I get the impression it is not something she is overly thrilled with. I can understand that. If my wife started presenting herself as a man, I would support her, but I would not be overly excited by the prospect.

I think in any serious relationship it is a good idea to look at where we are and what our needs are. Sometimes those needs can be worked on together, other times it might be best to part. Thank god for good therapists and forums like this where we can talk openly in a safe environment.

Ive been with my wife now 20 years and told her from day 1, but like you times changed and went through dadt etc. But I must say one thing, my urge to dress was greater than the sum of anything in my life. I told her I cant stop, dont want to stop, never will stop. I cant !!!!. This overcome all obstacles. She just lets me do what I want now, knowing it wont stop at any cost. I was prepared to lose everything. Why ?, because if I told her I'd stop dressing I'D BE LYING TO HER !!!. I cannot stop. So think carefully about your future, are you going to lie to her ? or can you stop ?

There are so many good insights and thoughts being shared here, and I wish I could respond to each and every one :<3:

Dutchess- I've tried to be as fair and unbiased in presenting what my wife has said, and of course she isn't here to give her side of things, but the things I've quoted are actual things that she has said to me. My intention isn't to smear her or misrepresent her in order to give my narrative more of a victimhood slant. Relationships are messy, couples say things they normally wouldn't when the blood pressure is up in the midst of something emotional, and sometimes it doesn't come off as intended, but regardless it still can hurt. At times though, I am glad she straight-up tells me what she thinks so it doesn't leave anything open to misinterpretation.

Would I dump my family in order to have the freedom to dress however/whenever? Never. What I do know though, is that the pendulum can't be stuck on the other extreme either, where I'm stifled to the point of repression like I am now. Through therapy and reading, we're always told to set up boundaries and expectations, and my boundaries keep closing in more and more to the point I'm trapped in a box, nowhere near what I feel I'd need to be able to have some harmony in my spirit.


Samantha- thank you for sharing about your kids and where you are at in the relationship with them knowing/not knowing. Since my first baby arrived (5 years ago), I always knew that eventually the topic would have to be addressed ("why are there super big girl shoes hidden in here?"), and that's created a lot of consternation with the wife too. How do we handle it? My therapist told me that kids these days are cool about it, I guess? Still makes me nervous as hell.

The repressed anxiety I have just bleeds over into other things, in that my nerves are already frayed and I'm angry on the inside, and then having to deal with kids (fighting, bickering, back talking, messy house, etc) pushes me into the red much quicker than I like. What's interesting is this: I have another hobby I love that takes me out in to the woods (photography), and when I come back from a few hours of being mindful and relaxed, it's like my temperature gauge has been reset, and no matter how crazy the kids act, stuff just rolls off my back. I can only imagine what my state of mind would be like if I were allowed to experience my feminine side more often, and just how much pressure it would release... I think it'd make me a completely new man, more balanced and in harmony.


Debs- that's such a brilliant way to put it, wow. The #1 thing I hear that creates strife in relationships where dressing is a thing, is that the dressing is tough, but it's the deceit/lying/hiding of things that causes the most damage. Yet, how are we supposed to be 100% honest with our spouse when they shut down and don't want to even discuss it when we do bring it up? It's a Catch-22: don't lie to me, tell me the truth, but if you do, I'm going to get upset because I don't want to see/know the truth. It's a no-win scenario.

Part of me is just like: damn the torpedoes, I'm going to buy things and dress, and if she finds out/sees, we can discuss it. Because, if I told her beforehand that I was going to dress or go shopping, she'd completely shut me down and I'd never get to. I'd love nothing more than to just be able to tell her about it and how I feel, I wouldn't even need to dress around her or have her participate... just listen and hear me, instead of being negative and using guilt/shame as a means to control something that she will never be able to.

"If I stop dressing, I'd be lying to her". So good. Thank you.

In 2009 you wrote a thread saying I’m trapped.
I would work with your therapist and Damn the torpedos is ridiculous approach.
Really wish she could tell her side you seem to have the same attitude as you did many years back…..how is that working for you?

I could understand the having children thing, my wife did a little change but I seen my sister in law turn from the sweetest person to the biggest monster. I remember my brother in law asking me where did the women he married go. Threating him if he doesn't listen to her she's going to take his little boy a way from him. Let's just say my wife seen that control and tried it on me but I told her if she wanted me to get the luggage for her.
I really feel for you and don't know what to say, but I will tell you something surprisingly my mom told me. When my wife was in a car accident I automatically stepped up and took over the choirs. My mom would stay over on occasion and the first chance she got she told me something that I couldn't believe came from her. She told me it doesn't matter how much or whatever you do for a women she will never appreciate it but only take advantage of it. She told me a women needs a strong aggressive man next to her to keep her in place. A women will respect and appreciate a man better when there more aggressive, I couldn't believe my mom said that. Saying that my wife tells me her worst memory of the past with my dressing was when I got aggressive, but as far as I'm concerned it was the aggression that I made my strives forward.
It really is a tough situation you are in but I feel at times as much as I do enjoy my fem time all of us here are dealing with some sort of hard situations.
The problem making a comment is that I don't know you and your wife and what sort of relationship you have to begin with, It seams like communication is not working and it's just a matter of time before you get more and more resentment towards her. I'm hoping there will be some sort of silver lining somewhere soon but till then you have us here who will always listen.

I cannot offer any advice.

I can only offer my ear. So, if you need to vent, we are all here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maria 60

Let's just say my wife seen that control and tried it on me but I told her if she wanted me to get the luggage for her.
She told me a women needs a strong aggressive man next to her to keep her in place. A women will respect and appreciate a man better when there more aggressive, I couldn't believe my mom said that. Saying that my wife tells me her worst memory of the past with my dressing was when I got aggressive, but as far as I'm concerned it was the aggression that I made my strives forward.
.

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I'm not going to address this poster because this is so offensive and shows such a lack of decorum that it would really end badly.
Plus, I don't talk to males that think like this but I hope everyone here knows not, DO NOT talk to your SO in this manner ever.
Most women aren't going to take that lightly and will deal with it swiftly as one should .. if you need to get aggressive do it on your own.

If any women are reading this, no, this above is not ok and you do not have to deal an aggressive male if he cannot dress or you don't like it. Under NO circumstances should you be frightened into dealing with it. Get the appropriate assistance.

Marissa, I am so sorry that you find yourself in this situation. When I had enough of my ex-wife's attempts to control me, I left. It did cost me a lot, but I am a much happier person today.

Hi Marissa May :hugs:, Welcome Back,

You just can't judge a Book by it's Cover, >Orchid**O:daydreaming:O**

Some people have a strange way of dealing with their SO's. For one thing, if my SO ever spoke aggressively to me (I would call it bullying), I would get my own luggage.

Marissa,

I certainly hope you two can come to an amicable agreement.

Marissa, so sorry to hear how things turned out for you. It would have been nice if she had been as open with you about your crossdressing as you were with her. that sh pretended to like it just to "land you" is so reprehensible and underhanded. I wish I had some sort of recommendation that could help make things better. Unfortunately all I can say is welcome back and know that any time you want to talk we'll be here for you.

Marissa, I'm so sorry to read of your situation. I'm relatively new to cross dressing as I've only been at it for 3 1/2 years. My wife and I have been married 40 years. My desire to CD was as much a surprise to me as it was to her. While she accepts it, she is not supportive nor does she participate. The good thing is she allows me the freedom to CD as much as I like so long as family and friends don't know. That means I can dress at home or far away from home. I would hope you can come to some sort of agreement with your wife of a similar nature. Maybe it's a matter of under dressing such that it isn't visible to others. After all, nobody will likely ever see if you're wearing panties. If you live in a cooler climate, it could be a bra under sweaters or jackets. Of course, when wearing long slacks, pantyhose or thigh highs will not be noticeable assuming you also wear socks. My point is, insist on a conversation and try to negotiate what she can live with so fae as you cross dressing. You might remind her during the course of such a conversation that you were honest up front so she was well aware of what she was getting and to insist you change is unreasonable.

If she simply refuses to talk about it, definitely seek out couples counseling. I wish you well as you move forward in trying to deal with this situaqtion.

Im so sorry you have to deal with it im in a marriage of 45 years my wife used to buy me things even did my make up and her and friends we would go to gay womens bar then one time she had a friend do my make up after that night she told me never wanted to do it again i was devastated. I still have the first thing she bought me a pink bra and gater and panty set.oh it will never fit me again but it was from her im like you i need to dress to be happy but its so nice to dress with some one who dose not judge .don't get me wrong i love my wife and all my kids and great grand kids.but to be able to wear my stuff any time without judgement would be great.but this is what it is so you know life gives you lemons blah blah balh lol i wonder if us older crossdressers put up with a nonaccepting wife because when we came up there was no help or groups to share our feelings with now there are groups to help everywheres.im not sure all i know is ill never quit that i do know:o

Dutchess,

I always appreciate that you give your perspective here on the forum. I've read many of your posts and have seen that your past relationships with crossdressers have been fairly traumatic and I can sympathize. I hate to know that anyone has faced betrayal and disrespect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

What happened is ,instead of saying "landing" you , she allowed it because she was in love with you and did not want to lose you is more likely ..

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It's our human nature to love the things about an intimate partner that we see as beneficial to ourselves and our image of ourselves. Whether it's physical attractiveness, hard work, public standing, etc... we tend to value those things that we feel give us an increased sense of value for ourselves.

Notwithstanding, abuse and infidelity, to love the benefits and reject the rest doesn't really meet my definition of love. The man who loves my wife dearly is totally male, but totally atypical. That fact has cost me dearly in intimacy and respect. It makes me sad for my wife that she's married to a man who falls so short of her expectations and in supporting her own self image.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

There are alot of behaviors that come along with dressing that are the big turn offs .

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You seem to generalize about crossdressing based on your past and on certain posts here on the forum. I get that and see it as a natural response. But, wearing leggings and a cute blouse doesn't necessarily lead to those behaviors. We each have our own pasts and sometimes the behaviors of others in our pasts will encourage us to experiment in order to find a new, more accurate self image.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

I'm not going to address this poster because this is so offensive and shows such a lack of decorum that it would really end badly.
Plus, I don't talk to males that think like this but I hope everyone here knows not, DO NOT talk to your SO in this manner ever.
Most women aren't going to take that lightly and will deal with it swiftly as one should .. if you need to get aggressive do it on your own.

If any women are reading this, no, this above is not ok and you do not have to deal an aggressive male if he cannot dress or you don't like it. Under NO circumstances should you be frightened into dealing with it. Get the appropriate assistance.

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I think it's possible that Maria 60 meant to use the word "assertive" rather than "aggressive". Certainly there's absolutely no place for aggression or violence or bullying, but assertiveness can be healthy if done in a loving way. My wife is happy for me to be assertive (as she says, "she married a man not a boy or woman").

It does sound like Maria's wife "tried it on" with him - it reads to me that he called her bluff.

Again, I am in no way condoning aggression or violence - not in either direction. A relationship can only work with mutual respect and love.

Just my 2p

Yes, I think assertive would be much more in line with what my wife expects of me. Neither of us are particularly assertive personally or professionally. I know that my wife finds my "laissez faire" attitude to be a frustration. She would never accept aggression from me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bea_

Dutchess,

I always appreciate that you give your perspective here on the forum. I've read many of your posts and have seen that your past relationships with crossdressers have been fairly traumatic and I can sympathize. I hate to know that anyone has faced betrayal and disrespect.

It's our human nature to love the things about an intimate partner that we see as beneficial to ourselves and our image of ourselves. Whether it's physical attractiveness, hard work, public standing, etc... we tend to value those things that we feel give us an increased sense of value for ourselves.

Notwithstanding, abuse and infidelity, to love the benefits and reject the rest doesn't really meet my definition of love. The man who loves my wife dearly is totally male, but totally atypical. That fact has cost me dearly in intimacy and respect. It makes me sad for my wife that she's married to a man who falls so short of her expectations and in supporting her own self image.

You seem to generalize about crossdressing based on your past and on certain posts here on the forum. I get that and see it as a natural response. But, wearing leggings and a cute blouse doesn't necessarily lead to those behaviors. We each have our own pasts and sometimes the behaviors of others in our pasts will encourage us to experiment in order to find a new, more accurate self image.

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Its alot more complicated that many here on the forum think it is .

I just know how it really goes after being involved up close and personal with them and out in public too for the last 25 years . Plus all their friends too .. we weren't hidden in the house so I knew probably close to 200+ of them .. I don't think its generalizing at all . I recognize his words . I recognize them well .
Unfortunately my experience is very common . Sadly .

I also keep up with this on Reddit , Twitter etc etc in real time so its not really in the past . I am not a typical housewife and I see these CD'ers every day through what I do for a living Every DAY and what they want I cannot say here . 3 of my clients are members here . They say one thing but do quite another . So this is how I get my outlook . all of it mixed together .

I work with women now in my spare time , worldwide , who have been hurt by this and its alot of them . I won't be stopping either .. its The CD'ers who need to check their behavior. I stand by that .
Plus I don't wish to see anyone over 40 in leggings and a blouse .. maybe a tunic but not a blouse . Not me not anyone . That's a personal thing . I know you all love them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Samantha51

I think it's possible that Maria 60 meant to use the word "assertive" rather than "aggressive". Certainly there's absolutely no place for aggression or violence or bullying, but assertiveness can be healthy if done in a loving way. My wife is happy for me to be assertive (as she says, "she married a man not a boy or woman").

It does sound like Maria's wife "tried it on" with him - it reads to me that he called her bluff.

Again, I am in no way condoning aggression or violence - not in either direction. A relationship can only work with mutual respect and love.

Just my 2p

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No she meant what she meant and I don't care and shes been aggressive with me in the past too thats why isaid I would not address her . I will always stand up for women after my exp . I would be wrong not too .

I never ever bother you all anymore unless someone is being unfair or rude to a woman . I know how it felt when mine did what op is doing here and I wasn't there to defend myself and it was bad and damaging .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maria 60

Let's just say my wife seen that control and tried it on me but I told her if she wanted me to get the luggage for her.

I really feel for you and don't know what to say, but I will tell you something surprisingly my mom told me. When my wife was in a car accident I automatically stepped up and took over the choirs. My mom would stay over on occasion and the first chance she got she told me something that I couldn't believe came from her. She told me it doesn't matter how much or whatever you do for a women she will never appreciate it but only take advantage of it. She told me a women needs a strong aggressive man next to her to keep her in place. A women will respect and appreciate a man better when there more aggressive, I couldn't believe my mom said that. Saying that my wife tells me her worst memory of the past with my dressing was when I got aggressive, but as far as I'm concerned it was the aggression that I made my strives forward.

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I cannot believe one can write such a post in 2023 !

I hope everyone here knows that aggressivity is not an acceptable behavior. Compelling your wife to agree to your dressing desire is not acceptable. And like Dutchess, I will add that if you are a woman dealing with your SO's dressing, your love for him cannot lead you to excuse or accept any kind of violence against you. If you are facing domestic violence, get assistance.


@Marissa

It is sad to feel trapped. It will probably be a good thing to explore that feeling with a psychologist, you are listing several reasons of unhappiness (dressing, but also not really wanting kids, returning to Midwest, loneliness,...).

And just a guess too : maybe your wife is aware of your feelings and maybe it is not understandable or acceptable for her, having children to take care of, that your way to deal with the situation is to dress. You need to restore communication.

You wrote "The wife and I have talked about seeing a therapist together to discuss things, we just need to find the time in our lives to get it on the calendar. On most topics we have pretty good/ to great, communication, but sensitive topics are much more difficult to breech."

So it is time to make the couple therapy a priority ! Good luck to both of you.

Sorry to hear this Marissa - it is a lesson for the future.

My big awakening came when my GF of years, the most liberal woman imaginable , supportive of any male or female who is transgender - any male that is ...except her own BF.

At first it was an open minded declaration : " if it is part of you - there is nothing wrong with this - we will just have to work it into our lives".


We dated in HS and Uni but as the clock ticked, she made it clear that despite her liberality to other people - it had no place in her own life.

She expected a stereotypical man for a partner - his task is make big money and I spend it " a me Jane ; you Tarzan" world view - and most importantly in theis stereotypical partnership -

You cannot be anything I am not proud to tell my friends about and being a crossdresser is at the top of the list. She started making negative comments of role reversal etc - I get that - but she proclaimed herself Miss Tolerance but it was al a facade to land the fish.

Knowing myself to be naturally happy, industrious and tolerant - I thought it best to remain a bachelor and prosper without the headache - I knew changing who I am is impossible and there was no way I was going to fund more social intolerance through divorce.

A member that gives cherry picked quotes from his wife and responders who think that they got the whole story that way. Some who never met the wife but side with the OP no matter what.
Some (most?) who seem to have no issue in the world when another complacently explains that aggressiveness and my way or the highway is the right way to treat your SO if you want to make progress in the cool world of CDing. I know it is a support forum. But there are limits to what can be read without a reaction.
And about the gentle mansplainings to GGs who reply. Do you really think GGs generalize from just their own personal experience? They have this thing called the FAB where they share their experiences. They have this site called CDers.com where many members explain that the only problem in their relationship was the dressing but also casually mention that they cheated, hid a secret life, stole clothes, ignored their wives sexual needs, etc (oh yes, count me in, I did some of those things too, and the dressing was the least of our problems. It puzzled my wife. But the rest, the lying, the stealing, PISSED her off).

What a peculiar thread. If I was a GG, I would certainly not feel safe here.

I feel sorry for you, unfortunately people lie. Change their minds when they should not. You must scale down. Like just panties in a great hiding place. So you can get some time in when you need it. We all go through this at one time or another. Like ever time I dress up I have to go on these boards

By no means would I ever ever ever advice someone to yell, scream or use any physical force or bully anyone. I shouldn't have used the word aggressive, when I meant to be more persistent or assertive. More to the point of she doesn't want to talk about it, so ask her when she wants to talk about it, or we have to talk about it, its very important to me.
In most situations when we read a post about a wife starting to come around, most of everyone's advice would be to don't rush it and take it slow. In your situation your story is making my heart bleed so I believe my advice would be to maybe push the issue more, explain how you really feel and how important this is in your life.
As I said before I hope you find some form of pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Dutchess, Char, Di, Miel, and DianeT, very well said, very well explained. I was going to add my thoughts about the value of assessing and reassessing priorities, the value of coping with changes, and how seldom such actions seem to be taken these days. But your responses have pointed that out, perhaps in better words. You've also pointed out what typically happens when priorities, honesty, and the willingness to accept change are ignored.

ADDED THOUGHT: Genetic women are the ONLY ONES with any experience AS WOMEN dealing with crossdressers. It may behoove many here to at least think about that.

Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maria 60

I really feel for you and don't know what to say, but I will tell you something surprisingly my mom told me. When my wife was in a car accident I automatically stepped up and took over the choirs. My mom would stay over on occasion and the first chance she got she told me something that I couldn't believe came from her. She told me it doesn't matter how much or whatever you do for a women she will never appreciate it but only take advantage of it. She told me a women needs a strong aggressive man next to her to keep her in place. A women will respect and appreciate a man better when there more aggressive, I couldn't believe my mom said that. Saying that my wife tells me her worst memory of the past with my dressing was when I got aggressive, but as far as I'm concerned it was the aggression that I made my strives forward.

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I would call what you are describing as abusive and manipulative. If my daughter was in such a relationship I would do all that I could to rescue her from it, as would my wife.
I can?t stand most men at the best of times. I have even less time for men who are abusive to women.

Sounds like time to invoke the CD pre-nup! Written or unwritten but understood.

Having read Maria's posts over the years, I believe what she meant was assertive or persistent. I don't think she was advocating abusive behavior.

As for Marissa's situation, Regardless of why it was done, the wife lied. So now she shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of her lie?

If it's gone on for this long, then counseling certainly seems warranted. It takes two to tango.

Quoting: "She told me a women needs a strong aggressive man next to her to keep her in place." Why repeat such statements then?

See Maria's post #38.

Post #38 doesn't address what I highlighted above.

Post #38 was to clarify what she said in post #21, which was a quote from her mother, so my opinion as to Maria's intentions remains unchanged. She did not intend to advocate abusive behavior.

Mod note:

Time to move on. We all are able to read what was said. Enough.

You've been consistently and completely honest with your wife from the beginning. I admire this and my heart goes out to you. I understand your frustration and current unhappiness.

I read your post from October 2013 where you describe having dated your wife for a year and having just come out to her. You said that at first she didn't like the idea of the CDing, but she was coming around with doing makeup, going shopping, etc, and you were "cautiously optimistic" about her overall acceptance. And then you didn't post anything else about your relationship until now.

Several things come to mind.

First, Please don't listen to the people here who say that your wife tricked you. It is easy to misconstrue another person's intentions or feelings about something unless the communication about the issue is crystal clear, with everything spelled out in great detail. And very few people are good at doing this. Reading through the lines, it sounds to me as if your wife did let you know in the beginning that she wasn't thrilled about the CDing, and as her feelings toward you deepened she tried to get involved and support you. You say that she now claims that she only supported you to "land" you. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I was also supportive of my own SO's CDing when we started dating because frankly, I had fallen in love with him and I wanted to land him too! :) Why wouldn't I have been supportive. I am in a different situation than your wife though. My SO and I are both past middle age, it is a second long-term relationship for both of us, and we certainly are well past having young kids in the house.

But, sadly things can and do change in any relationship as partners learn more about the CDing and how it fits into their lives, especially when the relationship becomes established after the first throes of new love settle down. And to complicate matters, your wife went from being a new wife to a new mother of two young children! Having kids most certainly changes any GG's priorities. So knowing what I know of GGs and human nature in general, I think your wife sincerely tried to be supportive (because she did and I am sure still does love you), but having young children around changed all of that. Do you want to come out to your kids? Or to your neighbors? Or to the people you work with? I'm guessing this is a big concern for your wife?

Second, you describe your wife as taunting you with talk about the sexy things she wants to wear. I honestly do not think she is doing this on purpose to torment you. If you keep the CDing under lid for her, she likely has no idea that you feel tormented. She cannot know what it feels like to be a suppressed CDer unless you spell it out. I also have something to add about you giving your opinion "as a guy", but please see my note about this at the end of my post.

Third, it is my impression that you see things in black and white? Either she supports you or you suppress it? You do want to share the CDing with someone, I understand this, and you would like that person to be your wife, but sadly right now this is not possible as you would like it. As your children get older this may change, but my suggestion for now is to find a support group that you can share it with.

This is what I suggest you communicate to your wife:

1. I need to crossdress.

2. I understand that you do not want to be involved, and I respect this, but this doesn't take away my need.

3. I need to share the CDing with someone else. I don't want to come out to people we know or work with, and for this reason I would like to be freer with the CDing (or CDing topics) around you, but if you are uncomfortable with this I would like to find a support group of other CDers and their wives.

4. Please understand that I am not looking for a sexual relationship with anyone. I just want to talk about fashion, makeup, or other feminine things with people who understand where I am coming from, who do not judge me negatively, and who share my interests.

5. Again, I understand that you don't want to be involved, but once I find a support group, please know that you always would be welcomed to join me. I have heard of groups where CDers and their wives meet occasionally for dinner in a private (or next town over) setting, where there is no risk of running into family, friends, or coworkers, and I will try to find such a group.

6. I would also like to dress a bit more freely at home after the kids have gone to bed, and I ask for your tolerance. Would you hate it terribly if I dressed for a few hours in the evening once in awhile, and we just carried on doing whatever it is we do? The evening doesn't have to revolve around talking about clothes or grooming, or painting fingernails, etc. We could just watch a movie together and be normal except for the clothes I am wearing. :)

7. What are your thoughts about all of this?



I hope you will give serious thought to taking a different approach with your wife.

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Note on giving your opinions "as a guy": Why must your opinion be as a guy, or as a girl? Why can't it be simply on whether or not you like the outfit on her? Wives ask their husbands? opinions like that all the time!

You mention wanting to tell her how you would wear the outfit, but as a GG, I can tell you that when a friend asks whether I like an outfit on her or not, the last thing I want is to turn the conversation around and make it all about me and how I would wear it! This just seems so selfish and competitive! GGs don't do that to their friends unless they are immature or completely self-involved! If my friend asks about whether an outfit suits her, I don't even think about how the outfit would look on me or how I would wear it. I look at her objectively and do my best to give an honest answer (tactfully if I don't think the outfit looks good on her), just like any husband would. :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Linda Stockings

ADDED THOUGHT: Genetic women are the ONLY ONES with any experience AS WOMEN dealing with crossdressers. It may behoove many here to at least think about that.

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Bravo!! :)

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marissa Mae

The wife and I have talked about seeing a therapist together to discuss things, we just need to find the time in our lives to get it on the calendar. On most topics we have pretty good/ to great, communication, but sensitive topics are much more difficult to breech.

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This is a long thread, sorry I've just read this. It might be a good idea to find a therapist if you can't find a CD support group. But the issue should be about improving the communication with your wife more than the CDing in itself. It sounds as if you know yourself well and what you need, but you don't feel you are getting it from your wife and because you want to keep the CDing private, it is difficult to share it with anyone. I also would recommend you and your wife taking the time to see see a marital counselor, so that you can both get to the bottom of what each of you needs in your marriage. I would hate to see your marriage get to the point where your (or your wife's?) frustrations mount to the point of divorce and breaking up your children's family.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

It might be a good idea to find a therapist if you can't find a CD support group. But the issue should be about improving the communication with your wife more than the CDing in itself. It sounds as if you know yourself well and what you need, but you don't feel you are getting it from your wife and because you want to keep the CDing private, it is difficult to share it with anyone

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I will speak from my own experience about this. I've been in therapy for the last three years, starting with dealing with some long term trauma and when some of those issues became less current, we moved to talking about my crossdressing. For me, the hours of discussion about my need to dress and the motivations for that need have helped me to clarify the things that I could never articulate to my wife. I've had a general understanding about how I felt while dressed, but verbally expressing those feelings has been a challenge. My therapist has consistently challenged my lack of clarity in expressing my feelings, both about my crossdressing and my marriage in general. In the long run the biggest takeaway has been that I'm learning to accept how my personal tastes and needs fit into my overall identity. I'm learning that I'm not just a crossdresser but rather a very complex person who crossdresses.

Reine,
I see how often you take the time to give very well articulated points in your responses. You've been kind enough to write responses like this to at least one of my posts and I appreciate it. I actually wrote out three or four responses to your comments and ended up deleting them because many of the things you mentioned did not lend themselves to a public response and I am not comfortable having private conversations with other women about my marriage. I just wanted to acknowledge that I appreciated your well thought out response. Thank you.

We are fortunate to have you on the forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bea_

... but verbally expressing those feelings has been a challenge. My therapist has consistently challenged my lack of clarity in expressing my feelings, both about my crossdressing and my marriage in general.

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Precisely! Effective communication is key, and in order to accomplish this we must learn to be assertive, which is hugely difficult when it comes to sensitive topics between spouses - whether the topic is the crossdressing, sex, compulsions, addictions, or any other deeply rooted need that one partner has and the other doesn't. Knowing what to say is one thing. Losing the fear of saying it is quite another.

Sadly, some people are so afraid to proverbially rock the boat, they allow unspoken resentments to fester until a marriage is ruined. Marital counselors can guide and provide a safe place for couples to discuss the difficult things.


To Marissa Mae: Earlier I suggested seven things you might say to your wife. I would like to add an eighth.

8) In an attempt to discuss the CDing with people who won't judge me negatively, years ago I joined a CDer general discussion forum. They have a private support section just for the wives that CDers cannot access, and you might consider joining as well. There are many wives of CDers who would prefer their husbands to not crossdress, and some of these wives might have insight on how to successfully navigate a marriage where the husband wants to crossdress and the wife would rather he didn't.

So Marissa, there may be things you've said in this thread and perhaps in earlier, much older threads that you would not want your wife to read? If so, please do not convince yourself that your wife would not want to join. Ask her. She is a mother of young children and I am guessing that she does not want to become a single mother. If you let her know how unhappy you've become and she wants to save her marriage, she will be willing to seek a solution, whether it is joining this forum or going with you to couples counseling. Or both. Please do not be afraid to share your truth.

You might also, from this point forward, ask yourself if you would be OK with your wife reading your post as written, and then editing it accordingly before you post. I think this would help you be even more objective.