Is it complete Inflexibility ?

[Dee Talbot]

Sometimes it's not about inflexibility. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with acceptance of the crossdresser. There are other reasons for asking our CD husband's to exercise some discretion.

Example, my family. We have 5 children who don't know about Barbara. This is something she and I have discussed, and we BOTH prefer to wait to tell the children. Therefore, dressing in public is an issue for us. Barbara has, for the most part, had to stay within the confines of our bedroom.

If we told the children tomorrow, then there are other concerns. I WILL NOT subject my children to teasing. It's hard enough being a child, they don't need to deal with teasing. If Barbara dressed in public, other children WOULD tease our children. I work with children, so I say with 100% confidence that this would absolutely happen. Barbara herself waited until after a day camp she was attending with our youngest son before waxing her legs for the very same reason. (edited to add....I know there are those who do live openly, and their children are aware. I appreciate and respect their bravery and honesty. I'm simply too much of a coward to do it)

Am I completely inflexible when it comes to putting our children in the way of possible teasing, misunderstanding, violence (yep, when kids are picked on because they (or their parents) are different it can and does lead to violence)? You'd better believe it. Barbara's need to express her femininity takes a HUGE backseat the the well-being of OUR children

To say that is complete inflexiblity for us to disallow our CD husbands any form of public femme expression is not taking into account the many other reasons that could lead to these decisions. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my love or acceptance for and of Barbara.

I have to echo Salandra and say that this is a decision for each couple to make individually on this issue as meets their own personal needs and situation.

Dee

[Jamie001]

Thank you Jaina,

You hit the nail on the head! Some of the GG's here just don't get that it is selfish and WRONG to not come to a compromise. Life is about compromise. The CD didn't choose to be a CD anymore than someone choose to get cancer, or someone that is born retarded or disabled. The CD was born that way!! That is the part some of the GGs don't understand and it seems that some of them believe that it is the CD's fault and that he should be able to "turn-it-off" like a light switch. Then it seems that the GGs feels that the GG should be able to tell the SO that he will suppress all forms of fem presentation including earrings or shaved legs in male mode.

GG's, it is a "two-way" street, and compromise is the key. :confused2:

That is my :2c:. On second thought that this post is worth 10 cents.

There do seem to be some very Contradictory stances.

There are no clothing double standards, wear what you want, no one can stop you, just don't do it around me, because I have the right to tell you what to wear.:rolleyes:

It seems that this thread has really struck a nerve. Maybe you have some unresolved issues?

I don't need to get a clue. I would suggest that you try to be a little more open-minded. The CD didn't choose to be a CD, he was born that way! It is also wrong to deny a person self expression. Would you like for your SO to dictate what you can and cannot wear? You should think more before hitting the 'Reply" button. :2c:

It is? are you kidding me? Pray tell me, just why should anyone be accepting? who said? with an attitude like that, it's no wonder whoever you're talking about, or whatever, isn't accepting at all, you really have no clue about the real world do you... selfish my ass... fgs get a clue :rolleyes: that has got to be the most insulting thing I've ever heard. Just because you're a CD, does not mean ANYONE has to accept it, it's your issue, no one elses and to call someone selfish for disliking it is beyond

Dee,

As usual you are right and really tend to think things through. Considering what you said, do you think that it may be acceptable for Barbara to have an accepted form of fem expression like earrings 24/7 since this is very common for men these days and would not cause teasing of your children? It is little things like that that can really be a big deal to a CD, although some GGs strictly forbid it even when half of the football teams or TV show hosts are wearing earrings. This was the intent of my original post.

Sometimes it's not about inflexibility. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with acceptance of the crossdresser. There are other reasons for asking our CD husband's to exercise some discretion.

Example, my family. We have 5 children who don't know about Barbara. This is something she and I have discussed, and we BOTH prefer to wait to tell the children. Therefore, dressing in public is an issue for us. Barbara has, for the most part, had to stay within the confines of our bedroom.

If we told the children tomorrow, then there are other concerns. I WILL NOT subject my children to teasing. It's hard enough being a child, they don't need to deal with teasing. If Barbara dressed in public, other children WOULD tease our children. I work with children, so I say with 100% confidence that this would absolutely happen. Barbara herself waited until after a day camp she was attending with our youngest son before waxing her legs for the very same reason. (edited to add....I know there are those who do live openly, and their children are aware. I appreciate and respect their bravery and honesty. I'm simply too much of a coward to do it)

Am I completely inflexible when it comes to putting our children in the way of possible teasing, misunderstanding, violence (yep, when kids are picked on because they (or their parents) are different it can and does lead to violence)? You'd better believe it. Barbara's need to express her femininity takes a HUGE backseat the the well-being of OUR children

To say that is complete inflexiblity for us to disallow our CD husbands any form of public femme expression is not taking into account the many other reasons that could lead to these decisions. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my love or acceptance for and of Barbara.

I have to echo Salandra and say that this is a decision for each couple to make individually on this issue as meets their own personal needs and situation.

Dee

[Di]

It seems that this thread has really struck a nerve. Maybe you have some unresolved issues?

I don't need to get a clue. I would suggest that you try to be a little more open-minded. The CD didn't choose to be a CD, he was born that way! It is also wrong to deny a person self expression. Would you like for your SO to dictate what you can and cannot wear? You should think more before hitting the 'Reply" button. :2c:

YOU have the unresloved issue...............someone telling you what you can or cannot wear......give me a break!!!!!!!!!!
YOU DO NEED A CLUE......I agree you were born this way.............SO why would you not iron this stuff out early in the relationship...why would you..being the cd........go into a relationship with someone that would tell you can't express yourself is beyond me........................that what we are trying to tell you.........................I would never tell my partner what they can or can not wear...or vise versa..............the point i'm trying to make.........Since you knew this.....were born as you stated....WHY would you go into a relationship with someone that would not see things the same way................................more or less lie to them.................spring it on them later......then later say...of why oh why.............................

[KimberlyS]

OK, I am really going to stick my neck out here. Unless you told your wife before getting married that you were a CDer, AND she understood what that meant, she married a guy, a MALE person. Anything beyond that needs to be worked out with your wife via good communication and compromise. With most of the compromise on the side of the CDer. If all you can get for compromise out of your wife is that she knows you do it and you keep it out of sight of her and others, I think you should feel lucky. This was the very minimum that I asked from my wife when we started working through the CDing issues. I have been very very lucky and gotten more than that over time. But it did not come easy as there has been a lot, A LOT of communication, discussions, heated discussions, and learning how to communicate as a couple. And part of that communication I have needed to learn how to open up and share my feelings and talk to my wife about them. I am no where near where I should be with my communication skills and sharing my feelings with my wife. But I am a lot better, and because of it our marriage is the best it ever has been and much more intimate on all levels. I have also learned how to treat my wife better. Not just like the wife, but someone that I want to be married to. One should never stop Dating and Courting your wife, and treating her like she matters and how SHE LIKES to be treated.

A happy wife is much easier to communicate and discuss things with. And a happy wife will usually want their husband to be happy also. It is surprising what they will suggest and compromise on when they are the ones that bring it up and not being pushed by their husband to compromise.

[Jamie001]

Di,

I think that I understand what you are saying, so let me answer your questions. In my case, I suppressed the fact that I am a CD until about 5 years ago because of the shame and guilt that is placed upon males for being a CD. Males are taught at a very early age that feminine expression is abhorrent behavior and is akin to mental leprosy. Therefore, it was a source of great shame and guild. I was taught by my upbringing and society that I must suppress my fem side and I tried to do this and suppress it for 40 years. I went through bouts of severe depression that were ruining my relationship and livelyhood. Finally five years ago, I hit rock bottom and couldn't get any lower. Because of my mental state and the severe depression, the next step was six feet under. I didn't want to expose the fact that I am a CD, but it had to come out. I was very lucky that my wife and I have a great relationship and that she is accepting to a point. In other words, I can wear fem items in male mode such as fem hair, earrings, nail polish, but I cannot have a fem name and I can't try to completely pass as a woman. Therefore, I have acceptable boundaries that I can live within and be happy. On the other hand, there are many males on this forum that their SOs don't allow any fem expression, not even earrings in male mode! (If you read the double standard thread last night, one poster said this). That is what I think is unfair. Relationship is about understanding and compromise, not dictation or living in denial.

Regards,

Jamie

YOU have the unresloved issue...............someone telling you what you can or cannot wear......give me a break!!!!!!!!!!
YOU DO NEED A CLUE......I agree you were born this way.............SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO why would you not iron this stuff out early in the relationship...why would you..being the cd........go into a relationship with someone that would tell you can't express yourself is beyond me........................that what we are trying to tell you.........................I would never tell my partner what they can or can not wear...or vise versa..............THE POINT WE ARE TRYING TO GET IN YOUR HEAD...........Since you knew this.....were born as you stated....WHY would you go into a relationship with someone that would not see things the same way................................more or less lie to them.................spring it on them later......then later say...of why oh why.............................

[Tamara Croft]

It seems that this thread has really struck a nerve. Maybe you have some unresolved issues?

I don't need to get a clue. I would suggest that you try to be a little more open-minded. The CD didn't choose to be a CD, he was born that way! It is also wrong to deny a person self expression. Would you like for your SO to dictate what you can and cannot wear? You should think more before hitting the 'Reply" button. :2c:

I don't dictate ANYTHING to my partner EVER... and if I had unresolved issues, do you think I'd be an administrator of a CD forum, do you think Tam would be out? Do you think we'd go to events... and NO ONE would ever dictate anything to me either, I am my own person.... if people dictate to one another what they can and can't wear, then that's their problem.. not mine... my issue with you was what you said about people being selfish... now I'm going to go eat my dinner and go offline, before I say something I might just regret....

[charllote34]

wow !! hot thread i have to find myself agreeing to what the GG,s are saying .Upfront and honest really is the best policy , but hey life is far from fair or perfect .Play the hand you have and make the best of it .

[Di]

Di,

I think that I understand what you are saying, so let me answer your questions. In my case, I suppressed the fact that I am a CD until about 5 years ago because of the shame and guilt that is placed upon males for being a CD. Males are taught at a very early age that feminine expression is abhorrent behavior and is akin to mental leprosy. Therefore, it was a source of great shame and guild. I was taught by my upbringing and society that I must suppress my fem side and I tried to do this and suppress it for 40 years. I went through bouts of severe depression that were ruining my relationship and livelyhood. Finally five years ago, I hit rock bottom and couldn't get any lower. Because of my mental state and the severe depression, the next step was six feet under. I didn't want to expose the fact that I am a CD, but it had to come out. I was very lucky that my wife and I have a great relationship and that she is accepting to a point. In other words, I can wear fem items in male mode such as fem hair, earrings, nail polish, but I cannot have a fem name and I can't try to completely pass as a woman. Therefore, I have acceptable boundaries that I can live within and be happy. On the other hand, there are many males on this forum that their SOs don't allow any fem expression, not even earrings in male mode! this I think unfair Relationship is about understanding and compromise, not dictation or living in denial.

Regards,

Jamie

Thanks .....I do understand what you said about being afraid to tell the truth and keepng it hidden..........I have a thing about lying.....to your partner :Angry3:You say it is selfish and wrong for the partner not to compromise.....I'm trying to say it is selfish and wrong for the partner not to know....there would be no issue if it is out in the open . Glad you talked to your wife and worked out something that works for the both of you
My reply goes to the ones that lie to the s.o...but later can't understand why....the s.o. isn't jumping on the wagon. I am totally accepting . and we are out in the world......... I was coming from the pov of s.o.'s that find out yrs later....feeling betrayed, Is more or less what you orig described.

[KimberlyS]

IMHO, most of us would be better off it we were all taught some communication skills, and especially some couples communications skills. And make it ok to share feelings, especially for guys. Then our spouse would be made aware of things in a timely fashion so they could be dealt with as a couple and not have it sprung on them some time later after the other person was ready to tell.

One of the hardest things I had to ever do was tell my wife that I could not deal with this on my own. That I was not the strong as a rock guy. Guess what? It has now make a lot of things easier to deal with and talk about. Two working together are much stronger than two working separately.

[Dee Talbot]

Dee,

As usual you are right and really tend to think things through. Considering what you said, do you think that it may be acceptable for Barbara to have an accepted form of fem expression like earrings 24/7 since this is very common for men these days and would not cause teasing of your children? It is little things like that that can really be a big deal to a CD, although some GGs strictly forbid it even when half of the football teams or TV show hosts are wearing earrings. This was the intent of my original post.

As a matter of fact, Barbara has no desire to pierce her ears. This has never been an issue with me. Heck, my 61 year old father pierced his ears. And this only recently.

However, surprisingly, in our little conservative religious bedroom suburban community....earrings would stand out. A masculine stud..maybe not so (although it would raise eyebrows at church). But any type of femme earring would be considered beyond the pale.

We have found other ways for Barbara to express herself. Nail polish is one. Even a clear nail polish, which is hardly noticable, helps Barb to express herself. We usually do a pale pink though. The children delight in seeing Daddy with scarlet painted toenails. And why not? Their big brother has had his nails polished off and on courtesy of various girlfriends over the years. To my kids, it's just something people in a relationship do for fun. (I did it to all of my boyfriends when I was a teen)

Barbara is free to shave whatever part of her body she likes. We have found that no one notices or cares.

Barbara takes delight in wearing "stealth clothes" to church. Women's slacks, trouser socks, a womans jacket.

All of these are outward expressions that I have no problem with. I can empathize with those women who are uncomfortable with it. And, if at ANY point, it impacted the children.....again I would put my foot down. Children first and always first.

Dee

Edited to add*** I did understand the original intent of your post. This is just my own observation and feeling on the subject. (And it's not a problem for Barb & I since we both agree on the level of her expression, and are willing to compromise with each other. I just wanted to point out that there may be more to the "inflexibility issue" than meets the eye. To the outside observer it may seem cut and dried, black and white. To the participant....it's probably much more complex than simple expression of self.

[Ema1234 GG]

Ok I'm pretty annoyed right now but you know what I don't care. Why some people on this site feel they have a right to dictate to other people what they should and shouldn't do in their relationship is beyond me.

I'm gonna stick my neck out right now and I really couldn't care less. You talk about shaving legs, well yes my partner would probably like to do that but I wouldn't want him to do it, infact I'd probably be extremely pissed off about it.

"Oh but that's terrible, you're denaying him his self expression, how dare you stop him doing such a thing."

Well what about my feelings on the matter? Do they not matter? FFS I like hairy legs on men, I like body hair, I'm physically attracted to manly men. But does that not matter? Oh no, your feelings on that matter don't count, how dare I stop him being able to express this.

But do you know what we do, we compromise. He thins out his leg hair, I'm ok because he still has it (or atleast some of it) and he's ok because it's nowhere near as hairy as it would be naturally.

And you know what? I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about the fact that I'm stopping my partner having this part of his self expression. It's our relationship and it's us who has to deal with it, not anyone else on here.

Please, don't try and dictate to other people what they should and shouldn't do in their own relationships. It's up to them to sort it out, if they really aren't happy they can walk away.

[Jamie001]

Di,

Thankyou for your response. I agree that it is wrong to lie to your SO and to keep this part of me hidden from her. However, from my perspective I was not lying. I honestly thought that I could put the Pink Monster back in her cage and forever refrain from crossdressing. I thought that the relationship with my then girlfriend and now wife would have "fixed-me" and therefore I would not have the need to CD anymore. By the way, this is my first marriage and I have not been through these issues before. As we have all found, it is not possible to keep the Pink Monster locked in the cage and maintain mental and physical health and therefore it had to come out. When it did come out, I was very ashamed about having kept this secret from my wife and for the pain that it could cause her. I wish there was some way to make GGs understand that some CDs are so delusional that they actually believe that they can put the Pink Monster in a cage and never crossdress again. In fact, the first time that the Pink Monster emerges and a little boy is caught by his mom or dad, he is taught very quickly that the Pink Monster belongs in a cage and the key is to be thrown away! Boys and men are programmed with this at an early age and then they are shamed if they can't keep it under control.

Respectfully,



Jamie

Thanks .....I do understand what you said about being afraid to tell the truth and keepng it hidden..........I have a thing about lying.....to your partner :Angry3:You say it is selfish and wrong for the partner not to compromise.....I'm trying to say it is selfish and wrong for the partner not to know....there would be no issue if it is out in the open . Glad you talked to your wife and worked out something that works for the both of you
My reply goes to the ones that lie to the s.o...but later can't understand why....the s.o. isn't jumping on the wagon. I am totally accepting . and we are out in the world......... I was coming from the pov of s.o.'s that find out yrs later....feeling betrayed, Is more or less what you orig described.

[Jamie001]

Tamara,

I want to publically apologize to you for my improper statement to you regarding having "unresolved issues" and I hope that you will please accept my apology.

I understand you point of view and that it is wrong to lie and deceive your SO, however, I do believe that compromise is what is needed to make a relationship work. That is what my wife and I do. I have limits that we have mutually agreed upon and I respect those limits. For example, we agreed that I will use my real name and not have a fem name and that I will not go "all the way" with the dressing. She is ok with a fem-guy, but not ok if I adopt a completely fem persona. On the other hand, if I were not allowed any form of feminine expression, I would have to leave the marriage for my own sanity.

Jamie

I don't dictate ANYTHING to my partner EVER... and if I had unresolved issues, do you think I'd be an administrator of a CD forum, do you think Tam would be out? Do you think we'd go to events... and NO ONE would ever dictate anything to me either, I am my own person.... if people dictate to one another what they can and can't wear, then that's their problem.. not mine... my issue with you was what you said about people being selfish... now I'm going to go eat my dinner and go offline, before I say something I might just regret....

[MJ]

i should not say this... but Honesty upfront is the key , if you did not tell your partner up front then if she is still with you... you should be thankful and in most cases grateful , and yes what she says goes .... be thankful for what you have and can do ... i never told the one i love and i lost everything ,
and some complain because of restrictions ... be thankful for what you have

[RobertaFermina]

We are as sick as our secrets.

If I fear the reaction of society to the truth of my life, and I hide the "inconvenient truths", then I am accepting a life with secrets and participate with society in censoring the truth.


I choose a world of lies, populated with less than whole human beings.

Any wonder there is confusion, mistrust and war?:nono:

ENOUGH OF THAT!

I choose the confusion that comes from being honest and frustrating conventional gender stereotypes over the confusion that comes from living with secerts. With secrets, life does not add up, it has fault zones and swamps of facetiousness and inauthenticity....lies.



If your SO wants you to live less than whole life, decide what hurts more...sharing your whole life with nobody, or sharing part of your life with somebody

Sadly, especially if you have children, the remedies are worse than the problem.

Better to come out to the SO on day 1....save the heartache and bitterness that is bound to follow.

Roberta

[Zee]

Honesty is core in any relationship. However, there are "inflexible" view points.

Some will say that you have to wear what others tell you, while others say that that view is inflexible. In either case, each are being inflexible.

When it really comes down to it, idealy, it would be nice for everyone to be able to wear anything they want to. Unfortunately, due to social issues, this is not the case.

Does it really matter that a woman can wear mens clothing at any time? Does it really matter that a man wants to wear womens clothing from time to time? In my honest and humble opinion, this is a relatively small issue compared to the rest of reality.

Many women think that if a man wants to wear womens clothing, then he isn't a man. This is by far the most ignorant view about crossdressing that I can think of. Of course the man is still a man. So what if he likes silky, smooth clothing. He is still the same person in or out clothing just the same way a woman is. Unless that man is seriously considering SRS, the view that he isn't the same man is the most dispicible double standard I have encountered.

Why is it that you never see men only gyms? You see women only gyms. Why is it that you hardly ever see nice mens clothing in wal mart? Women get over three quarters of that retail space. Why is it that magazines have 80% womens clothing and 5% for men? Why is it that in a business environment, a man can't wear shorts, but a woman can. I can go on and on, but you get the general drift.

Any relationship requires compromise on every issue. It is a fact of life. It is unfair to pose absolutes on anyone in any relationship. If either the man or the woman are unable to reach compromises, counselling is definately in order. An objective third opinion is what would be needed.

Be that as it may, it should not matter what other people think. Each person in every relationship should only care about what their SO thinks and feels. This goes for BOTH parties. And you know what... its really a small issue. Honesty and compromise is the best thing a relationship could have. Just don't sweat the small stuff...

[angelfire]

This thread is the exact reason I intend to tell my girlfriend I CD before we even consider marriage. I want to learn from others' experiences on here and not have to go through it myself. From what I've seen, little to no good has come in the long term from not sharing this info early on in the relationship (early on = pre-engagement in my view). If it isn't the CDing that gets them, it is that fact that you hid a part of yourself and lived a lie for the past X number of years. Even when I came out to my parents, my mom was upset because she always said I could share anything, and I hadn't told them up until then, so she doesn't believe in keeping secrets from family. I believe SOs are the same way. If they don't know until well into the marriage, then they will either try to make it work through compromise, or just flat out end it in most cases. This can all be avoided by sharing the info before you are 'bound' to each other.

[battybattybats]

I think if you would start out the relationship being 100 percent truthful.....then you would not end up with a partner that would want you to be 100 percent masculine ......:Angry3:

Hmm it'd be nice wouldn't it.
And yet when a man with upper back length long hair, long painted findernails and wears several womens tops as male tops and who, just a week after the first date, mentions they have occassionally crossdressed in the past, doesn't feel the need to right now but that the desire to might return in the future then that's exactly what would happen wouldn't you?

But instead there are constant whines about hair, fingernails, various things that 'look gay' or 'only gay guys do' and a constant push to masculanise let alone the suicide threats and constant arguments when crossdressing comes up.

read my answer above....AND YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME.......this coming from someone who wants to wear whatever they want....and you would put restrictions on your partner:rolleyes:

What is wrong with that? Equal freedom or equal restriction? A preferance for the first but failing that insistance on the latter. That I think perfectly matches the notion of fairness. How could it not be?

As for embarassment in public... that is an interesting point and one that I have pondered at legth without coming to a firm conclusion. That said I think it is more than fair for an SO to ask their partner not to change their public appearance radically in a setting that may adversely affect them socially. However if the partner is just maintaining their appearance (like my long hair and long black painted nails.. we are both goths) then it should only be particularly important occassions when this is done so (For example I cut my nails and removed the polish for her best friends wedding which I thought was fair enough, of course I was asked to do this and so was willing to go to very great lengths because it was a request. If I was told to I would not have done so.).

There seems a lot of hostility being flung around about acceptance and selfishness. Well selfishness is puting ones own desires above the needs of others.. and when ones needs or desires are considered more important than anothers needs or desires for no other reason than they are your own. At what point does the feelings of others dictate restrict or influence the choices of someone over their own body? Legally, morally and ethically (outside of communist/socialist philosophies where the states/groups rights are more important than individual civil/human rights) the answer is almost none. However it would be a callous CD who ignores a fair request based on their partners feelings and it would be a callous GG who does likewise.

Do CDs deserve acceptance? Why wouldn't they? Why would they deserve less acceptance than anyone else? Aren't accepting and tolerating diversity and differance important life skills and the duty of everyone? Don't you have to respect the differences of others if you want them to respect your differances? If a cd was not out to their partner before marriage that is a seperate issue isn't it?

Dee Talbot: Example, my family. We have 5 children who don't know about Barbara. This is something she and I have discussed, and we BOTH prefer to wait to tell the children. Therefore, dressing in public is an issue for us. Barbara has, for the most part, had to stay within the confines of our bedroom.

If we told the children tomorrow, then there are other concerns. I WILL NOT subject my children to teasing. It's hard enough being a child, they don't need to deal with teasing. If Barbara dressed in public, other children WOULD tease our children. I work with children, so I say with 100% confidence that this would absolutely happen. Barbara herself waited until after a day camp she was attending with our youngest son before waxing her legs for the very same reason. (edited to add....I know there are those who do live openly, and their children are aware. I appreciate and respect their bravery and honesty. I'm simply too much of a coward to do it)

Am I completely inflexible when it comes to putting our children in the way of possible teasing, misunderstanding, violence (yep, when kids are picked on because they (or their parents) are different it can and does lead to violence)? You'd better believe it. Barbara's need to express her femininity takes a HUGE backseat the the well-being of OUR children

The notion of protecting children from teasing.. teasing because of being different is something I have a lot of personal experience with. Because of my cheekbones and eye shape in one tiny rural town I lived in the other kids thought I was chinese so I copped a lot of racism. The next, slightly bigger town was very anti-intellectual so my habit of reading in public made me a target. It was also homophobic so my not liking footbal and motor vehicles had many assume I was gay and so I suffered from that too. Later in high school i refused to conform even further and the more I was spat on, the more my posssessions were destroyed, the more I was assaulted, the more I was almost stabbed or almost run over on my way home from school the more I realised how important it was to be myself and not give in to schoolyard terrorism. I respect anyones desire to protect their children from such violence, physical and psychological but with the huge rates of bullying in schools reducing their difference may not be enough. Also by reducing difference what lessons are being taught? That it's ok to be different? That its important to stand up for others? There are many anti-bullying programs some of which are quite successful. I don't know if protecting children from being a target because of differance is good for either the children or the rest of the community but I respect your intentions and that the decision on how best to try and go about it is yours.

Take a deep breath everyone please.

[Dee Talbot]

I don't know if protecting children from being a target because of differance is good for either the children or the rest of the community

I don't disagree with you. I think children today are very overprotected. And, when we feel that our children...and we...are ready to have this discussion, we will. But, until we do....Barbara and I just go on picture dates further from the house. Or while the kids are at school. And this was not an issue that either of us had to compromise on. We are 100% in agreement. No stifling Barbara's expression at all. We just find ways to make it work.

I think diversity can be taught a variety of ways. We live in a neighborhood that looks like a 1950's TV show. There ain't a whole lot of diversity here So we have had to be creative with teaching important lessons to our children. I am pretty proud of the job we have done so far. I NEVER worry that my children are going to spew hate speech or behavior, because they have been taught to treat EVERYONE with kindness. Different doesn't mean wrong....it just means...different. And that's OK. I have never seen my children turn from someone different, because they were different. I am proud to say that my children are the type to reach out the hand of friendship to everyone.

I dealt with teasing while growing up too. So much so, that I spent years on the couch coming to grips with the damage done. It's a personal thing, but seeing or hearing of my kids being teased brings out the Mama Bear in me. I just can't take it. I am aware that it is my baggage, but there it is.

Interestingly, it's our 1 year old....with no concerns about teasing, who is included in Dad's dressing adventures. We are convinced that she is going to have some oddly conflicted memories about Mom and Dad and that red-haired broad who sometimes visited.....but never when Dad was around. Kinda like Superman and Clark Kent. :D

Dee

[Tamara Croft]

Tamara,

I want to publically apologize to you for my improper statement to you regarding having "unresolved issues" and I hope that you will please accept my apology.

Thank you, and apology accepted I do understand the need for compromise and I also understand the need to keep things a secret from family etc. I understand, because a while back, Tam was on the radio discussing his secret on air and the things she said were really heartbreaking, it made me realise how hard it is for a CD to come out to partners/wives/husbands etc...

But I also know how hard it is for a partner/wife/husband etc to find out early on in the relationship, it isn't easy, especially when you have had no knowledge previously that this even existed. I can tell you, I was completely floored when I found out and it took 5 years to even start understanding the actual meaning of being transgendered. I can really understand those that won't accept it, can't get their heads around it and despise it, because I've been there, prayed it would just go away, but it doesn't. I think the majority of people who don't accept it have no information to help them, their partners just drop the bombshell and that's it. They have no one to talk to, they keep it to themselves because they feel ashamed and society doesn't help by making the transgendered look bad all the time.

When we find out, it's like we're shoved in the closet with them, it's hard not having anyone to talk to about it, so when Tam showed me this forum 3 years ago, it was like a God send to me, I was finally able to figure out what it all meant. I just wish other people would give their partners/wives/husbands etc more information, so they can at least start understanding and know they aren't alone, that's how it feels for a lot of people. Does that make sense?

[Kerry Owens]

The only thing I will say, and it's simple children have enough grief now-a-days in growing up. To add the vicious teasing that will happen when a parent is identified as "different" is to ignore reality. That child will be ripped apart by the other kids socially, and emotionally. Those kids have no hesitation in attacks.
I know, I survived a similar childhood with meaness around me like a shark tank. Why? because my mom had a "problem". Duh, protecting the kids from the teasing and attacks is not wrong!

[Sheila]

[SIZE="4"]If a cd was not out to their partner before marriage that is a seperate issue isn't it? [/SIZE]

and that is why so many SO's have problems in coming to terms with CDing, so many of us just didn't know prior to marriage or entering into a living partnership.

And even if you knew prior to entering into marriage/fulltime relationship .............. it does not automatically gaurantee it will work out just because you know .............. knowing about something and living with it 24/7 can be a very different thing all we can do is try and if it dosen't work out then you can at least say we tried but !!!!!!!!

[Karren H]

It still amazes me that crossdressers continue to whine that their SO's are so mean for not accepting them.. Her values are her values and that's not going to change just because yours have.. Or you poped out of the closet (Surprise!!!!). She didn't sign up for this... So why should she have to accept the new you? If my wife started wearing male clothing (and not womans jeans....), not shaving, penciling in a mustache, and shoving a sock down her pants I'd sure as hell be horrified!! Not what I signed up for!! So what's the difference!!!

The SO's here are already on the bandwagon to varying degrees so were not hearing from the ones you speak of!! But its not their fault!! I don't blame my wife for how she feels!! So get over it..

Karren

[Bridget Fitzgerald]

Is it complete selfishness and inflexibility when a gg will not allow her SO to wear any article of feminine attire in public even if it is just one thing?

For example,

It has come to my attention that some GGs will leave their SOs is they want to wear shaved legs or earrings in public. They insist on a complete and 100 percent masculine appearance. I find this very interesting and would like to hear thoughts on this subject.

:2c: Jamie

I think a lot of times it boils down to trans issues in general being a 'pretty girls' and 'manly men' club.

For instance, if one actually 'looks' like a woman and only gets a glance here and there. It seems more often OK. Look like Shrek in a dress and cause people slamming on their brakes and kids crying, theres a problem.

I've seen the same in public with women presenting as masculine. The more they fit 'the norm', fairly masculine face, minimally female frame, etc,. people seem to merely glance. Take another woman with a guy haircut, guy clothes and she has a fairly voluptuous build and unmistakable female facial features, she gets the dirty looks.

Look around online and more often then not, partners who are very accepting of 'going out' do not have trans-partners who fit the Shrek model.

So our ability to 'fit' the appearance of a target gender without drawing negative attention may very well factor into partner acceptance. And the answer to that isn't just as simple as stating our opinion. It's very difficult to be objective and remove your passion, bias, etc. from questions like that. If not, shrinks wouldn't have a job.

So this might imply correlation between the non-trans partners perception of a negative public reaction, and their own acceptance level.

As for kids factoring in and one has unresolved issues, nature provided this thing called an orgasm to call attention to the fact that we're probably fertilizing an egg. Fertilize an egg and you now have a group of three or more voters. Thus, its quite logical to assume you will be out voted.

[Di]

At first your thread angered me ( the orig post)and I was trying to give an s.o.'s P O V.......and after reading your heart breaking post about how it feels to have to hid part of your self for survival and talking it over with my partner. I think I have come to an even more understanding and appreciation.......hope others have too .....looking at both partners opinions on this.

I am very lucky...never had to endure anything like this( having to hide part of your life or feeling betrayed)....and at first this post tripped my trigger in a bad way...........it now is letting everyone talk and learn.