Quote Originally Posted by Jamie001 View Post
There is a lot of wisdom in Veronica's post about being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
Thanks Jamie.

Quote Originally Posted by NicoleScott View Post
I've read many posts about a CDer coming out/going out with wonderful outcomes, and then make the leap that everybody should do the same, thinking everyone's outcome will be as good. We know that many coming out outcomes are disastrous. But those who encourage the coming out aren't there for the consequences.
There are consquences to everything...you could get run over by a car but that doesn't stop you from going outside you house en drab does it? One could also take steps to reduce the likelyhood of bad outcomes. Besides, the more acceptance trans people have in general, the less likely bad things are likely to happen, yes?

So you see a photo of a CDer in a motel room and make the assumption that it's because of shame.
What else would it be derived from? If it's because of DADT and you're keeping it invisible from the wife...at it's core...it's derived from shame, guilt and other negative things. If it's because the wife/partner doesn't know...then it most certainly is hame/guilt/deception. The only time it isn't negative emotion derived... is if one normally dresses at home, but does so while on a trip as well.

But who said I have to have a part?
Well, don't you feel an ethical obligation to help make things better? So that the next generation doesn't hav ethe issues we did?

I'm perfectly content to dress in private, sometimes in hotel rooms, and I have no need to further the cause of greater public acceptance of crossdressing.
Okay then, but what if you're "discovered", don't you want there to be no negative consequences? Don't you want to eventually have people see that being a CD is no big deal? Wouldn't that make your life better and the lives of other transfolk better?

There really is nothing in it for me, so any steps I take to come out benefit CDers who want to be out.
So it's "I'm not my brother's keeper, and if it doesn't benefit me I don't care?". That's a rather selfish attitude don't you think? Don't you have any sort of emotional or empathic feelings for other transpeople? Any steps you do take to come out...benefit you. I mean, wouldn't you like to have human rights protections for transfolk in Mississippi? Wouldn't you like to not have to worry if you let something slip, or are accidentally found out?
If I feel differently, I will reconsider what actions I might take.
WEll, at least that's something.

But I'm a crossdresser This IS the MtFCD forum, isn't it?
Yes, but crossdressers have been going out in public for decades.

A TS most certainly has a different approach to coming out, or so I'm told over and over again by TS folk posing as CD experts on the MtFCD forum, most of whom admit to misidentifying themselves as CDers until the enlightening-bolt hit them, after which they claim to know everything about crossdressers and crossdressing. Posts taken with a grain of salt.
I take it you don't like TS's, then? You don't think that some of the formerly CD identified TS's might have learned a few things and picked up some wisdom in their years of identifying as a CD? You're just not wanting to listen to the "out people" (who are both CD and TS) because they confront your preconceptions and call you out on some of your statements.

Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
It's a little different if you like to go all out and play in the world on occasion. In that case, being in the closet hurts your own spirit. If you're also closeted to the extent that you hate yourself, then that begins to hurt the rest of us because most people who hate themselves promote social policies to punish themselves.
Darn tootin.

...and this is at the root of the issue. People who actively CD but are deeply closeted become so adept at hiding that lying can become second nature to them.
Indeed. I got so good at it I kept up some of it...even after I told my immediate family.

People that are deeply closeted eventually become people that can't be trusted.
I wouldn't say that, but the deception can become habitual.

PS I love love love love you Lori!
I love her too!

I think the larger point to this is coming out to yourself. I know that sounds like psychobabble but when you accept yourself you WANT to be with like minded people. You WANT to support people like you.
Indeed, that's a good thing.

You don't need to come out to your grandma, but certainly your wife,or even your best friend.
My best friend knows...but my grandmothers passed away before I was an adult.

SO many CD's are so suffocated by self hate that their activity becomes dark, and sinister rather than fun and lighthearted. This is the problem with the closet, there's no light in there. It is damn near impossible to feel good about something that you are keeping so secret.
Yes, that is what led to the phrase in the GLBT community: "closets are for clothes...not people" Thy hurt your spirit more than anything else.

Acceptance is the hardest part.......I talk about self acceptance so much because I KNOW how difficult it is. I also know how powerful it is.
Yes, it is....it's a long term thing.

I disagree, it's an extremely worthwhile topic
Fair enough...I do think it's a good topic...I guess I've just seen it come up...and then pass on by so many times.

and I WAS avoiding this thread until your post which I found to be ...AWESOME! I loved every word. I re-read it even cuz I was afraid I missed something. It was beautiful and pointed, and deliciously bitchy. Perfect.
Thanks, I guess. I guess it was a little bitchy..but sometimes we need a bit of that now and then.

You may be perfectly happy in your life and your secret activity BUT there are CD's out there who are not happy keeping secrets and they should be encouraged at every opportunity to find a friend and take steps toward the light. To learn to love themselves and be okay with being a little freaky. To find the courage inside to claim their place in the world.
Indeed, which will lead to more acceptance and better outcomes in the future for everyone.

Veronica