Ask-a-gg

[Andrea Chenowith]

Have a look at the following article. Near the end, it mentions why women wear panties. If you don't have any of those issues, then go without. But I should think you'd want the underwear to hold things in?

I get the going completely commando part. In guy mode, I'm the same way. I'm just curious as to whether my wife's wearing both panties _AND_ pantyhose is the norm or part of her conservative upbringing. Do all moms tell their daughters that they should wear panties with pantyhose, or is that just the peculiarity of my MiL?

As to the effectiveness of just wearing pantyhose, I've found that I have better luck avoiding seam lines and unsightly bulges without panties. That may just be my anatomy and build talking, though...

[MatildaJ.]

It's not peculiar to wear panties with pantyhose. I think most mothers tell their daughters & sons to wear underwear every day, regardless of what outfit they have on.

In high school I wore panties against my skin, and pantyhose or tights over them. When I was a poor student, I learned that putting the underwear on over the pantyhose / tights could help prevent them from sagging down at the crotch. When I started dating guys with real jobs, I got my first garter belt, and learned to put on the garter belt first, then the panties, so I could go to the bathroom without undoing my garters. Lately I tend to buy thigh-highs, and then they don't affect my underwear decision.

[ReineD]

I'm just curious as to whether my wife's wearing both panties _AND_ pantyhose is the norm or part of her conservative upbringing.

My point was that many (most?) women do wear panties under their hose for the very reasons outlined in the latter part of that article. It has nothing to do with being conservative and everything to do with hygiene. Since you don't have those issues because you are a genetic male, you can get away with not wearing the panties if you can find another way to hold things in.

[Andrea Chenowith]

It has nothing to do with being conservative and everything to do with hygiene.

Gotcha... Thanks!

[Melissa_59]

What Reine said is valid for me too -- "she" isn't a teenage girl, but she's not a competent, confident woman either.

Jess, thank you and Reine both for your answer, I appreciate it. I don't think for one minute that I act like a teenage girl or anything like that but my SO will have to be the judge of that. She hasn't met Melissa yet, I'm both anticipating and a bit tentative for that first meeting.

~Mel

[Stephanie Miller]

I have a question that has been beat to death on other sections - but to me I would rather get advice from the Gg's only. Since it your prospective that I will be dealing with - not just experience other CD's have been through. As some of you well know, I am unfortunately put in the ranks of being single. Now I have no intention of striking out immediately into the dating world since I do not want to drag anyone down with me during the rebound stage. I am going to try and hold of a year to find myself first. BUT.... when I do start dating I want to be honest from the get-go. So it is the old favorite question again of "When" to tell about this part of my life. I can put adds in Match.com, eHarmoney & Craigslist etc. explaining all about my male self and end it with an oh by the way.. (Of course a picture of the TWO of us could be optional in order to peak curiosity)
just to see who bites. That way there are no surprises for anyone and they all know up front. I could date someone and let them get feeling for me where they will be will to "accept" this part. (Acceptance really never lasts in most cases). Or Invite someone on a date as a "typical" male then inform before saying good night. (Probably a better chance of winning the lottery than a second date. Right?) So tell me girls... how would you have liked to have been told - that gave the best chance of success - if the tables were turned and it was up to you to tell?

[Kate T]

Originally women wearing "pants", at least in recent history, began as essentially a political / social statement by the Suffragette movement notably. These women didn't necessarily want to express their masculinity, they wanted (quite rightly!) to have the same right to vote as men.
So when as a woman you wear trousers, or maybe a mens cut shirt or tie, do you have a particular reason for doing so? And how do you FEEL when you do so? Do you feel less vulnerable, more respected, or no different?
Genuinely just curious about GG answers.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Stephanie, they're just going to have to like it. It's really that simple. I see so many stories and read pages of advise here about how to help a woman accept crossdressing. Forget all of that and find someone who LIKES this about you. Yes, you're very limited and most women won't be interested. Thing is, when you find that 1% woman who loves you for you, you won't be here complaining of DADT. More importantly, you won't be falling in love with someone and then unintentionally hurting them by just being yourself. I don't think anyone here means to do this and I know your hearts break as much as ours. And ours do break. Sometimes very badly.

So please, be kind, be honest, and tell her on the very first day. x

[Di]

Stephanie , I usually say date a bit and see if there is a connection and then before it goes any further or starts to get serious spill the beans. To me that is what you do dating getting to know all about each other.Esp true dating in your local area unless you want to be out to everyone.
But I like your idea of putting it out there on dating sites.

Wondering what you mean by acceptance does not last in most cases? I know some GGs say....well they said it was only wearing panties ect and now it is xyz. So being as honest as you can because you want a relationship where you both can be free to be yourself.Best Wishes



Adina.....I just recently bought a shirt from the mens dept because I needed a plain white shirt to go with the rest of the outfit and the womans were not as long as I wanted .Did not care what dept it came from....and feel nothing except feel like me wearing my shirt.Wearing pants, skirts or whatever just feel like me.

[MatildaJ.]

@Stephanie, how much of the time would you like to be en femme? Now that you're living on your own, how much of your at-home time do you spend en femme?

I would figure out that percentage -- and don't rush, take a few months to get past any pink fog, and see where you end up of your own free will. Then, if you like to be en femme 20% of the time, post a profile on OKCupid and other dating sites with 20% photos of you en femme. But if you like to be en femme 50% of the time, post photos where half of them are you en femme. Etc. You don't want to minimize the cross-dressing: you want to get the full story across as soon as possible, and attract people who want you as you are. To the right person, this is a feature, not a negative.

And if you eventually want to spend 50% of your time en femme, then go out en femme on half your dates with a new person.

@Adina, I feel like myself in pants. Tough and competent. In a skirt I feel like I'm wearing a costume.

[ReineD]

So it is the old favorite question again of "When" to tell about this part of my life.

Had my SO told me about the CDing shortly after we first met, I think I would have eliminated him from my subconscious list of potentially viable romantic connections. I would have thought him interesting, but as a friend only and I don't think it would have gone further. I assumed that CDers in general either wanted to be women, or wanted to be with men, or were into the fetish big time and this would have been too much baggage for me to pursue, I believe. But as it was, we knew one another for three years casually (we used to be regulars at a local coffee shop and over time my feelings for him developed). So by the time he told me, the first week we were dating, I had already fallen for him enough to be willing to learn more and to not entirely eliminate the possibility of a romantic relationship. And then things took off from there, the chemistry between us was strong.

This is why I recommend developing a relationship with a woman first, to see if there is any chemistry, before telling. If you notice there are sparks, then by all means tell her and don't wait too long. Hopefully you will be good at reading the cues ... on the other hand, if there are no sparks likely the relationship will not develop?

That said, if you join a dating site you will be showing your profile to women who are already there expressly looking for a romantic relationship. And not to get other GGs my age mad at me, but if you are middle aged there are few available men for women in that age group (compared to all the people in their 20s looking for each other ). So these women might be open-minded, more so than if you just met someone by chance outside of a dating site. But, I still think the CDing might be too off the wall for many women, depending I suppose on how much they want to be in a relationship.

Also ... depending on the dating site, I gather from others' experiences here that if you post pics of yourself en femme, you might get hit on by Admirers?

So when as a woman you wear trousers, or maybe a mens cut shirt or tie, do you have a particular reason for doing so? And how do you FEEL when you do so? Do you feel less vulnerable, more respected, or no different?

I don't wear men's cut shirts or pants. I wear tops and pants that flatter my figure and I don't wear ties although I do wear decorative scarves sometimes. I also don't wear sneakers outside of the gym. I don't dress up often because most of the places I go to are very casual and I do not enjoy overdressing for the venue. I don't like calling attention to myself. I wear mostly blue or black jeans in the winter, for ease and comfort. I do tend to wear casual skirts in the summer (knee length or maxi which are in style right now), or casual summer dresses, because I refuse to wear shorts outside of doing yard work (I'm past 50), and pants are too hot. I also dress down my skirts and summer dresses with flat or very low heel sandals, unless I'm going out to a fancier place in the evening.

When I need to dress up (dressier skirts/blouses or dresses and heels), I do not feel vulnerable nor do I feel more respected. I just feel as if I am properly dressed for the occasion. When I dress up I do feel treated differently than when I'm not, but this is likely due to the environment. Staff at fancy restaurants for example treat their customers differently than the guy at the taco place counter. If I'm going to a wedding, other than people generally being on their best behaviors and more sociable, guests are dressed like me and we all treat each other pretty much the same as if we were all going to the pizzeria together wearing jeans.

One thing to mention ... I frequently visit my home town (a large metropolitan city) during the summer. Maybe it's just me, but I do feel underdressed when I'm dressed too casually downtown.

So how do I feel? I feel the same, no matter how I'm dressed. I forget how I'm dressed once I'm out doing things (unless I'm not dressed for the venue and compared to others there) and I focus more on the people and what I'm doing. I honestly think that only crossdressers feel vulnerable when wearing dresses because men are not accustomed to the freeing sensation between the legs?

[fem_gal]

so you dress according to the situation and what you feel is appropriate however do you have a better half and how would you go about dressing how you feel if you can barely get the significant other to get you panties let alone dresses.

[ReineD]

That's a loaded question, fem_gal and there is an entire forum here devoted to finding an answer. It's the age-old quandary: how to get the wife to accept so the CDer does not have to hide.

I'm afraid there is no simple answer since everyone and every relationship is different. You could start by having an honest talk with her about your needs, and let her know that if she doesn't want to be involved you will respect this, but you do need the time and space to dress. She'll have a lot of questions so it might be helpful for you to read many of the threads in this forum first, to help you with the answers.

And of course you could always tell her about this site. We do have a support section for the wives and girlfriends:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...f#faq_gg_forum

[MatildaJ.]

how would you go about dressing how you feel if you can barely get the significant other to get you panties let alone dresses.

why not just get your own clothes, and wear what you like? Why do you feel it's your significant other's role to get clothes for you?

[Di]

Not sure...just guessing from your post....it does not sound like you talk to each other about the cding. So if that is the case start there.Your needs/ her needs and get some understanding between you both.



And agree with Jess....why would it be on your wife to buy your things? From your post it sounds like it is your thing and not hers .

[Ciara09]

I have two questions for ggs about how you relate to crossdressers

First question is how would you feel about socializing with a cd platonically? Especially since you know most CDs have at least some sexual response to cding, does it make you uncomfortable to think that the cd you are with may have a hidden sexual agenda? I think some crossdressers do get turned on by the idea of being on a girls night out with ggs and I was wondering if this is something that would disgust you, make you uncomfortable or would you be ok with it? Also if the cd told you explicitly that it's not sexual, would believe them or still be skeptical?

The second question is about how you feel about our use of the word "feminine." I posted something that I realized was sexist where I characterized my own helplessness in certain situations as "feminine." It got me thinking about what that word means to me and how I use it, especially since I often describe myself as "feminine" in terms of my behavior and mindset. Also other CDs post about feeling feminine at certain times. I am wondering what does it mean for an actual woman to feel feminine? Do you feel good about being feminine, insecure about your femininity? Do you dislike the way you see crossdressers talk about femininity? Do you think we have a accurate concept of femininity?

Thanks ggs!

[MatildaJ.]

Yes, I dislike the way most crossdressers talk about "femininity."

I think other words serve the purpose better - expressing more clearly what it is you feel, without declaring that your feeling is natural for all women. So consider whether you mean "vulnerable," "sexy," "adorable," "graceful," or whatever, but try to avoid the lazy short-hand of "feminine"/"femininity."

Just my opinion!

[ReineD]

I agree with Jess, feelings are not gendered. Both men and women can feel vulnerable, both can be strong willed, both can feel shy, both can be angry, both can be competitive, and the list goes on. I do get upset when CDers think that being helpless or passive, or sexy even (men are sexy too), is being feminine. I certainly don't feel helpless or passive. It also bothers me when CDers refer to themselves as women when they are dressed. This just seems too out of touch with reality. But, I do understand it when CDers say that putting on women's clothes makes them feel more feminine than they feel in male mode.

You ask what it means to be feminine? I can only speak for myself, but I feel feminine no matter what I wear or what I'm doing, even if I'm mowing the lawn. This is because I am fully aware that there is a stark contrast between myself plus the other women I know, and men. It's like there is an "us" and "them" camp, and the fundamental differences between the two are the sexual/physical characteristics, including hormones, and how those hormones affect behavior. If there were no men on this planet for me to compare myself too, I don't think I'd have a clue what feminity means. Also, my femininity is enmeshed with my female gender identity. This in turn means that I very much identify with my female body, which does things that males can't do. It's not about "looking feminine" since anyone can put on wigs, makeup, etc, and as mentioned, a woman can be feminine in blue jeans and an old shirt when she's painting the bedroom.

Your first question: I would not feel comfortable going out with a CDer as a friend, if I thought that he was getting off sexually on the experience. This would make me feel used. But I know a lot of CDers that I enjoy spending time with and I know it is not sexual for them. If I was going out with a group of GGs and there was a CDer present with a sort of glazed look in his eye and acting all weird, no I would not believe it if he said it was not sexual for him. lol

[MatildaJ.]

Maybe I'm somewhere on the gender spectrum, towards tomboy, but I've never felt feminine. So I don't know, Reine, if I'm an 'us' or a 'them' in your system. I feel human, but not especially white, or middle-aged, or female, or maternal, even though I fit in those categories.

[ReineD]

Jess, maybe you and I have different definitions of "feeling feminine". To me, it does not mean "feeling girly". It rather means being a woman, which I know I am down to the deepest fiber of my being ... no matter what I wear or how I look.

I know women who are much girlier-looking than me, and others who are less. But in my opinion, "girly" (which can mean sparkly heels, elaborate eye makeup, girly dresses, etc) is just one of many styles that women can adopt, for example biker chick (not girly at all), accountant style business woman (I'm not talking about the male version of a sexy secretary look lol), girl-next-door, sporty, hippie chick, streamlined style (a very basic aesthetic), steampunk, even tom-boy, and I'm sure tons more styles that escape me at the moment. So no, feeling feminine in my opinion has nothing to do with adopting any of those styles. It just means being a woman (as opposed to being a man) and knowing it.

[MatildaJ.]

But usually when people say "that's a very feminine dress," they don't just mean "that's a dress." And "he's a feminine man" isn't a just an oxymoron. In fact, it makes more sense to speak of a feminine man than to speak of a feminine butch woman. In my experience, "feminine" seems to mean a particular way of being a woman.

[Di]

My :2c:
Surface femininity would be all the shoes,dresses ect
I think it is just being me.... the energy I give out being real .....me being me makes me feminine.
No matter what I am wearing or what I am doing.

When cders say it.....I think they might be saying they feel sexy, helpless or passive But to me none of that defines being feminine


In yrs past used to show up at group outings to show support for the girls and never thought of anyone it just being a sexual thing going out that would have creeped me out.

[ReineD]

In my experience, "feminine" seems to mean a particular way of being a woman.

I think I understand what you're saying. There's a thread that touches on this in the TS section and I responded this morning that I have a friend who is not girly (or you might say, feminine) looking. Her face is angular, her body lacks curves, and she feels that because of this she looks ridiculous in makeup and the girlier looking clothes. And I agree with her, just as I would not think that a 6'2, broad shouldered woman would look good in a short pink tu-tu.

But, my friend identifies fully as a heterosexual woman, and in this respect she is as feminine to me as any other woman I know, just by virtue of being a woman. She is my best friend and we relate like sisters. She is loving, kind, nurturing, on top of having killer analytical skills.

So I think that you and I may have different definitions of what "feminine" means, and that's OK. I mean a fundamental femininity that has nothing to do with how we look, even if we are competitive and work in a predominately male field.

On the other hand, I would say that any birth-woman who identifies as a guy is not feminine.

[MatildaJ.]

You know women who aren't gentle & sensitive & curvy, and you still consider them feminine. But (per Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity>) our culture sees those women as less feminine, the more aggressive, angular, and non-heteronormative they are.

My issue with the word is that it tends to make it easy to forget the distinction we're talking about. When I say a woman is butch or aggressive or non-nurturing, people hear "less feminine." That should be "less stereotypically feminine," but I think it's inevitable that when people hear an unqualified "feminine" they understand it to mean "stereotypically feminine."

So all I'm saying is that rather than having to say every time: "by feminine, I mean like-a-woman, not stereotypically feminine," I encourage people to think about what they actually are trying to convey with the word feminine, and say that instead. Usually, they don't just mean "like-a-woman." Usually they have a particular, stereotypical trait in mind.

[ReineD]

So all I'm saying is that rather than having to say every time: "by feminine, I mean like-a-woman, not stereotypically feminine," I encourage people to think about what they actually are trying to convey with the word feminine, and say that instead. Usually, they don't just mean "like-a-woman." Usually they have a particular, stereotypical trait in mind.

I totally agree with this! I also believe, as you pointed out above, that it would be refreshing to hear CDers say, "I feel vulnerable, sexy, adorable, graceful, or whatever", instead of "I feel feminine".

And I agree with you that when people think "feminine", they have the girly stereotypes in mind. I don't know if you disagree with this in principle or not, but I do. I personally have a much broader definition of feminine. I don't adhere to the stereotypes. The fundamental difference between feminine and masculine to me boils down to differing sexual characteristics (primary and secondary) that include hormones and the effect this has on behaviors. This is what I meant earlier with "us" and "them". No matter how another woman may look, talk, dress, behave, etc (even if she is squarely built and works in a male dominated field for example), I know that she and I share something that I do not share with men, and so I feel that she and I are both feminine compared to the man. Generally speaking. If this makes sense. :p