Cd admirers, why are there so many?

[NicoleScott]

When out hunting, a hunter will select the forest with the highest number of desired prey. Admirers are going to frequent chat rooms or bars with the highest number of t-girls. It is simply a matter of numbers and statistics.
Many only want discreet encounters and do not want to date in any form. Once they find out I don't dive right into getting physical (not that there is anything majorly wrong with that between consulting adults, it is just not the way I fly) and require getting to know each other by going out on a few public dates, 90%+ lose interest right away.

Interesting post, Melissa Rose. I suspect that everything you said was right on the mark. Not to overdo the hunting analogy, but what you said is true if you're after numbers. Trophy hunters hunt where there are fewer numbers, and they work harder and have more patience to get their trophy.

I used to visit cd chat rooms a lot, and had many nice conversations with other cd's and cd admirers. When a chat connection was made, my first question was "cd or admirer?". No judgement there, I just wanted to know who I was chatting with. After a while I learned how to quickly weed out the ones whose objectives were different than mine, such as Melissa Rose mentioned. I never had any intention, nor did I lead any admirer on in believing, that I wanted a meeting. I wanted chat, and so did some of them. And had some very good chats with some very nice admirers.

I don't have a problem with the term admirer. I just take it for what it is - someone who, for one reason or another, is attracted to (admires) cd's. I talked to alot of creepy ones, and when I don't like how the conversation is going, dismiss them politely or, if necessary, with an unpolite <click> . But that's no reason for me to heap baggage on the nice ones. Admirers admire, and if they do something else let's define them with the appropriate term.

[ReineD]

I would very strongly differentiate between individuals who are attracted to TG people in real life from those who may lurk around the aforementioned sites. In recent months, I have met a number of women - bright, intelligent and inquisitive women seemed very interested in getting to know me. I don't know that they were necessarily attracted to me because I was presenting as female, or not....but it wasn't a deterent. Are they admirers? I probably wouldn't characterize them that way.

I agree with Kim. There is a big difference between an attraction to someone who also happens to crossdress, and a fetish for a particular group of people just for sex. Moondog in post #74 points out several racial fetishes (not to be confused with a real attraction to someone of a different race), such as white women who are into black men, caucasian men who are into oriental women, etc.

I would not like to be an object of someone else's fetish unless of course I was looking strictly for sex and nothing else. I do recognize there are people who don't wish for more than purely sexual relationships and this is fine too, if they are realistic about the particular fetishes they are into. But I have little tolerance when someone is not up front with what they're doing. If two men, one of whom is dressed, are getting off on the fantasy they are a straight couple behind closed doors, that's fine, but please don't come here and say this is who you are. :p

Back to the term "admirer", Shannon, the term has been adopted by members of this community to denote men who have a fetish for other men dressed as women. This doesn't mean that the rest of us don't admire or love various individuals, but I wouldn't call myself an admirer for being into my SO. If I weren't in a relationship with my SO I wouldn't be hanging around in bars or on CraigsList looking for other CDers to have sex with. I wouldn't negate the possibility of being in a relationship with another CDer either, but the fact that he CDs would be just a small part of my overall attraction to him, should we hit it off.

[SIZE="2"]When my CD friends and I go out to our favorite LGBT club and elsewhere, we are usually the best dressed and best looking females in the place! Need to find places with a better quality of females.[/SIZE]

Tastes vary between cultures, age groups, and individuals. I'm sure you look very nice and all, but someone in their 20s who has an edgier style might not like the style of clothes you wear and to them, you wouldn't be the best dressed and best looking female there. This is not meant as an insult, just a reminder to recognize that other people's tastes may be different than your own. :p

[Lorileah]

To each their own Reine. Married CD's like myself do not want to be hit on. I'm not interested in sex, or other relationships.

Not unlike many married AND unmarried women who just want to be out, have fun and relax. Welcome to the real world where some people don't like to be polite or civilized (mostly because they have been taught that this is what men do and this is what women do). I have found that in the majority of cases a simple "No thank you" works well.

[Debglam]

Not unlike many married AND unmarried women who just want to be out, have fun and relax. Welcome to the real world where some people don't like to be polite or civilized (mostly because they have been taught that this is what men do and this is what women do). I have found that in the majority of cases a simple "No thank you" works well.

My experience is very limited but I think that this is what the difference between a "good" admirer and a creep are. I am comfortable enough in my own skin to not have a problem being hit on by a man, woman, whatever and whoever. BUT(!!!!) when a simple "no thank you" doesn't end the interaction, we are now in creep mode!

[Marleena]

I have found that in the majority of cases a simple "No thank you" works well.

In my manly voice should do the trick.

Maybe a wedding ring might help the cause?

[Barbara Dugan]

I like this thread, kind of interesting how we are trying to dissect the psyche of an admirer when only a hand full has been on the same room and bed with one and believe me even like that...trying to put a label on their sexuality is not easy . I understand how and why an straight cross dresser may get upset if one make an unsolicited advanced. I am on the other hand I am always on the look for a nice one, I get hit a lot by other crossdressers but I am not really into, I prefer the husky straight acting Bisexual guys I guess I am also some sort of admirer

[Marleena]

If we think logically on this we (TG girls) are GM's dressed as females. It is rational thinking for the unknowing to think we are wanting to be female, and thusly attracted to or wanting to attract males. Survey says most CDer's are straight however.

In my case if a male found me attractive enfemme it would feel good (affirmation). His motive might only be sexual though. Some of the TG girls fantasize about being with men when dressed for the affirmation of them being female.

I think the only true answers can come from the admirers themselves, or girls that have had experience with them. Interesting topic though.

[ReineD]

I guess I am also some sort of admirer

Hmm. Several people in this thread have now said they are admirers. This is a bit tricky, because once again, we only have one term to describe two or more different things: the group of men known throughout this community who are specifically into men who are dressed as women and are into them just for sex, and all other people who might be attracted to a person for a long term relationship, who also are either CD or TS. (Although based on the sheer volume of posts from gay and straight CDs who say they have a hard time finding long-term partners, I'd say this is rather rare).

What to do? We might agree as a forum on the same understanding of the popular definition for "Admirer", and stop calling ourselves admirers when we are in fact attracted to someone who falls outside of the gender binary. Maybe we can simply say that we have an attraction, with the understanding that the "chick with d*ck" ideal is not the only thing that forms the attraction, and we are attracted for more than sex?

If two CDers or two TSs, or one CDer with a TS, or a cisperson with either a CDer or a TS find happiness in one another as a couple, would we call them admirers? I wouldn't.

[Badtranny]

I like this thread, kind of interesting how we are trying to dissect the psyche of an admirer when only a hand full has been on the same room and bed with one

Bingo baby, it IS funny when people form all sorts of opinion about these "greasy" admirers yet have never even met one in person. I won't give creepy people of any stripe any reason to believe they can play with me. I like people in general and I am open to chat or dance with most anyone who asks, but some people are more interesting than others. I assume any guy who shows an interest in me knows what I am and frankly it doesn't matter to me if he digs T-girls exclusively or just wants to walk on the wild side for a bit. If I'm interested than I'll let him know. I've even made out with women on the dance floor, (cuz chicks love to kiss). Why even go to the club if you don't want to dance and have a good time? Life is too short to hope nobody notices you, and God bless the "admirer", because queer T-girls need love too.

Oh and Barbie, blue is your color honeybuns. ;-)

[whowhatwhen]

I can agree with that, I mean aside from 100% straight people who doesn't LTC but if you're a guy out trolling for some sausage don't hide behind "straight" and try to justify it by adding "because they're feminine looking" as an escape.
It just kinda irks me as it feels like because they're "straight" they're better and by god they're going to remind you about it.

------------------
I generalized a bit, but to be fair I have more issues than TV Guide.
I'm gonna lurk more for a while.

[Melissa Rose]

It just kinda irks me as it feels like because they're "straight" they're better and by god they're going to remind you about it.

I have never gotten the impression a male admirer was coming across as being better because he was claiming to be straight. Nor has any reminded me about it outside of the initial mention, if it even occurred at all. It is only a label as far as I'm concerned. He can call himself whatever he likes especially if he is paying for dinner. :-) It does not change a thing since his actions is the real measure.

As previously mentioned by others, there are creepy admirers and very nice admirers and a bunch somewhere in between. Unfortunately, the creepy ones give the rest a bad name. This is true in any group, including the various flavors of transgendered, where a few negatively taint the rest. Stay away from the creeps, and be polite, but firm when necessary, to the rest. If you can't do that, it may be best to stay away from the places where the admirers congregate. Actually, my worse experiences were with guys who apparently did not know I was transgendered and were being quite aggressive or jerks. T-girl admirers do not have a monopoly on creepy, scary, clueless and/or stupid. I give them all the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

[Shananigans]

If I weren't in a relationship with my SO I wouldn't be hanging around in bars or on CraigsList looking for other CDers to have sex with. I wouldn't negate the possibility of being in a relationship with another CDer either, but the fact that he CDs would be just a small part of my overall attraction to him, should we hit it off.

That's a good point, Reine. If my SO and I were to break it off for some reason, I would still be open to dating another CD. But, it wouldn't take a precedence in my life. I would be just as likely to date a CD as I would a TS and any GG or GM (without gender conflicts). I think the difference between what we think of as an "admirer" and someone like you or me is that we wouldn't be the type to troll hard on a CD chat or CL to find another CD. The people that are doing that I STILL think are mainly fetishists for mixed genitalia or fetishists for "chicks with d*cks" that watch too much porn. (I hate saying that, but it's applicable). I wouldn't say that ALL are, but I feel it's true for the majority. And, I just find it very...odd. But, I find the whole racial fetish thing disturbing too. My best friend from middle school is Asian (though I argue that she is the whitest person I know), and she won't really date any guy that has dated Asians back-to-back. She calls them "Asiaphiles." When she told me this, I laughed my a$$ off...but, then, I realized she was serious. And, I got the same icky vibes that she did about the situation. She even found one of her boyfriends (now ex) on like an Asian fetish site and he was talking to other white guys about how Asian chicks are the best and about their tiny boobs and petite bodies. She said it made her feel like a joke.

Hmm. Several people in this thread have now said they are admirers. This is a bit tricky, because once again, we only have one term to describe two or more different things: the group of men known throughout this community who are specifically into men who are dressed as women and are into them just for sex, and all other people who might be attracted to a person for a long term relationship, who also are either CD or TS. (Although based on the sheer volume of posts from gay and straight CDs who say they have a hard time finding long-term partners, I'd say this is rather rare).

What to do? We might agree as a forum on the same understanding of the popular definition for "Admirer", and stop calling ourselves admirers when we are in fact attracted to someone who falls outside of the gender binary. Maybe we can simply say that we have an attraction, with the understanding that the "chick with d*ck" ideal is not the only thing that forms the attraction, and we are attracted for more than sex?

If two CDers or two TSs, or one CDer with a TS, or a cisperson with either a CDer or a TS find happiness in one another as a couple, would we call them admirers? I wouldn't.

^^^ THIS!!!! It's perfect!

I assume any guy who shows an interest in me knows what I am and frankly it doesn't matter to me if he digs T-girls exclusively or just wants to walk on the wild side for a bit. [...] Life is too short to hope nobody notices you, and God bless the "admirer", because queer T-girls need love too.

I'm asking this in all honesty...do you ever feel like you deserve better/sell yourself short? You seem like a well-educated, attractive person...don't you kind of want something a little more substantial? Or, do you just kind of feel that the guy that is into you for having read "what you are" is all that you can hope for?

I do agree with Alice Novik that a lot of the guys that my SO and I have bumped into seem to be kind of failed in some way. The guys that have been sort of shunned. I often wonder if they find home and a place with TG people because of how low some TG people's self-esteems might be. (I am not trying to imply that your self-esteem is low, and please tell me if I am reading too deeply...I do this ALL of the time). A lot of my friends (me included) put on a sort of game face when we go out, and we will plan ways to get around crazy guys at the bar that we don't have time to be bothered with. I wonder how many other GGs are playing this sort of game. And, I wonder how many TG people are all too flattered that the attention was paid towards them and fall into it.

[ReineD]

As previously mentioned by others, there are creepy admirers and very nice admirers and a bunch somewhere in between. Unfortunately, the creepy ones give the rest a bad name.

I'm glad you've posted this, since you're someone who can answer some questions.

I gather you've met men that might be defined as "admirer", meaning they specifically are attracted to CDers, or pre-op TSs, and they weren't the creepy variety (the guys who send pics of their genitals to unsuspecting facebook members.

Where do you meet these men specifically, and what are they after (companionship, sex, or both)? Are they looking to be in a relationship with a TG (CD or TS) where the intimacy and good times move beyond the bedroom? Is there an emotional bond with the TG (even if the relationship does not go beyond several months)? Do they exhibit the same dating habits as men who date GGs (dinners in restaurants, evenings that don't necessarily involve sex, introducing her to coworkers and friends, you know ... just being with her because he really enjoys her company and including her in all the other aspects of his life.

Do these admirers also date GGs, in other words, is it a feminine person they fall in love with regardless of anatomy?

Do you know of any admirers who've been with a pre-op TS who eventually had SRS, and did the relationship last after the surgery?

And last, how many of these admirers are married to women who do not know what they are up to, and would this explain their inability to have anything other than a sexual relationship with a TG? :p

[Barbara Dugan]

Do these admirers also date GGs, in other words, is it a feminine person they fall in love with regardless of anatomy?

Do you know of any admirers who've been with a pre-op TS who eventually had SRS, and did the relationship last after the surgery?


And last, how many of these admirers are married to women who do not know what they are up to, and would this explain their inability to have anything other than a sexual relationship with a TG?

Yes they do, the vast majority do. It is rare the one that only date T-girls, those are very nice ones

Yes I' ve been approached by a few of those and most of them feel betrayed and bitter about it most of them felt they were used....I try to avoid that kind it's not fun being a replacement or crying pillow

In the past I used date only married ones because it what I was looking at, just a sexual relationship and that made feel more secure but I got an email from a wife and that incident changed my perspective..now there is no more married ones even if they look like Brad Pitt :p

[ReineD]

but I got an email from a wife and that incident changed my perspective..now there is no more married ones even if they look like Brad Pitt :p

I'm so glad she emailed you. Good for her!!

I don't admire men who cheat behind their wives' backs. So, I guess now I can officially call myself a "non-admirer"? .... wait, no I can't, because I do admire my SO. Maybe I'm a non-admirer sometimes, and an admirer the rest of the time?

Now I'm all confused. :D

[Badtranny]

I'm asking this in all honesty...do you ever feel like you deserve better/sell yourself short? You seem like a well-educated, attractive person...don't you kind of want something a little more substantial? Or, do you just kind of feel that the guy that is into you for having read "what you are" is all that you can hope for?

Well this can get kind of deep but I'll try and skim across the surface. The truth is that I am an incurable flirt, but alas if I don't feel the tingle, I won't be in the mood to mingle. I don't want to say I'm all talk cuz I have indeed seen a cockatoo, but I am much pickier than I probably let on. I haven't had sex in quite awhile and last time I did, it was with the only guy I was seeing all last year. Keep in mind that I came out as gay back in 06 and considered myself bi for years before that, so attention from men is nothing new to me. Being with a guy doesn't make me feel anything but sexy. I don't need them to validate my femininity or whatever and I certainly don't need to be cross dressed before I can be with one. Having said that, I still flirt and dance with men and women, because that's just plain fun.

Do I want more? Why yes absolutely, but as long as my face looks the way it does my relationship options are limited. I'm transitioning because I don't identify as a gay man. I am attracted to big alpha straight dudes. I yearn for the day when I can meet and have a conversation with a guy who might like me without having any idea that I used to look like a dude. I literally hate looking like a cross dresser which is exactly what I look like right now, which is why I rarely do it anymore. I went out with a really sweet guy last night and though he identifies as gay, he seemed to be really into me. So you never know, but yes I think you may be reading a little too deeply. I'm mostly playing counterpoint to the prevailing puritanism on the board.

[busker]

My feeling is there is sexual identity, and sexual preference, always two separate things, once you walk out the door and express yourself a certain way , no matter how you represent yourself, you may attract someone, once you do you have to ask yourself are they attracted to me just because I am a cd/tg person or do they truly enjoy me as the person I am and want some kind of relationship that is friendly and respectful

pointing out the obvious, that is a question that has created the pre-nuptual agreement, why celebrities avoid "fans", why rich people shy away from poor, hangers-on, etc. I have read a number of times, that beautiful women have a hard time getting a date because for one, guys may be too shy to ask, but also if they want to date a beautiful person simply the woman happens to be beautiful. It is a basic insecurity that in some way effects us all. Do people really want us for who we are?

[Shananigans]

Melissa,

Haha I know you like to lighten us all up a bit. My friends just took me out for margaritas because I needed to take my "serial face" off. (South Path Al Gore episode reference, btw).

Also, I don't really see what you are talking about with your face. You look like any natal woman that I would know. I hope that things work out with this new guy! I don't know how I would feel about the identification of "gay" from him...but, we can all go through growth in our sexuality at times. He's probably more bi than he knows.

[ReineD]

I'm mostly playing counterpoint to the prevailing puritanism on the board.

There's a lot of that certainly, but I also see attempts to try to cut through all the fantasy. And you're a huge ally in this regard. I admire that you tell it like it is.

That said, many members are here specifically for the fantasy. Yet they know who they are. They log off this forum and go mow the lawns or put oil in their wives' cars. And I dare say they wouldn't change any of this. But while logged on, for a brief shining moment they are the girl of their dreams, this beautiful creature that holds men's hearts in her hand. These men are not interested in cutting through the fantasy. This forum is a respite for them.

The trouble is, their friends' wives become members and read their posts, and it creates all sorts of havoc in their lives because they don't know if their husbands share the same fantasies.

It's kinda like living in a large country with people who have origins from all over the world, and are all over the map in terms of education and socio-economic backgrounds. There is a huge melting pot and it's hard to strike a balance where everyone will be happy.

[Badtranny]

I don't know how I would feel about the identification of "gay" from him...but, we can all go through growth in our sexuality at times. He's probably more bi than he knows.

Yes probably, but it's refreshing to have a dude just come out and say it. When I first started experimenting with cross dressing back in 08 or 09 I "dated" a lot more and pretty much every guy insisted he was straight. I don't know who they were trying to fool, (perhaps themselves) but this was pre HRT and they didn't seem very straight to me. ;-) Whatever gets you through the night right?

New guy was a perfect gentleman, but as much as I would want a relationship, I don't think I have much to offer a sweet guy looking for something real. I'm a little bit focused on my transition right now and it's an entirely selfish pursuit.

[Badtranny]

These men are not interested in cutting through the fantasy. This forum is a respite for them.

I'm ashamed to say that I had not considered that. I have no idea why because it seems perfectly obvious after reading it, but until right now, I had a fairly dim view of the fantasy crowd. Good Lord RD, you could bring peace to the Middle East. ;-)

Perspective. Gotta love it.

[ReineD]

New guy was a perfect gentleman, but as much as I would want a relationship, I don't think I have much to offer a sweet guy looking for something real. I'm a little bit focused on my transition right now and it's an entirely selfish pursuit.

Taking care of yourself while you're undergoing an immense change is not selfish. You've structured your life in order to do so unfettered, and this also is not selfish. But don't sell yourself short. You have a great deal to offer in any relationship and I should think the person you end up with will be very fortunate indeed! You can't decide for someone else what they need. They are well able to decide for themselves.

[Lorileah]

Maybe a wedding ring might help the cause?

Probably not. As they say that ring don't plug no holes

[Marleena]

Probably not. As they say that ring don't plug no holes

A chastity belt then? lol. j/k

[Shananigans]

Marleena, I had thought an engagement ring and band might detract people from my SO too. I don't know if it's necessarily true, but they'd still look pretty! Lol

So, I vote yes!