Busted, Rejected........Screwed

I went back and re-read the OP and some of you should, too. The wife's issue isn't that she was betrayed for so many years, but that her husband crossdresses.
She assumed he was gay, wanted to be woman, and is a sexual deviant, a sickness that needs curing. Sure, there were many years of living a secret life, but assuming that the lie is the main problem is reading into the OP something that wasn't there. I think the wife is one of those who cannot tolerate a crossdressing husband. Most of her assumptions about crossdressing are incorrect, but that's her reality, and Samantha's.
What good is it doing to remind Samantha that the wife should have been told long ago? Samantha is seeking advise on where to go from here. This forum is full of testimonies of cd's who thought that marriage would cure them. OK, we were all wrong. We don't get a do-over. Must go forward.
I prefer "counselor" to "therapist". Therapy suggests that there is something wrong with you and a therapist can fix it. Counseling suggests working on a relationship between people who don't see eye to eye and need help getting there. Just my perception.
Whatever you call it, why would a couple go to counseling or therapy? My guess is that she wants him cured, and he wants her acceptance. Without a common goal to work towards, how can it succeed? If you don't know where you're going, how are you going to get there?

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Originally Posted by KristyPa

I feel for you so much. I don't think she would be in anyway acceptable or understanding even if you told her upfront. I understand totally any partner not excepting a crossdresser, thats why we hide it from them and everyone else.

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This is so sad. No wonder you believe that the OP's wife will never accept (which, btw, you cannot say for sure since you don't know her or the OP). There are many wives who do accept. It's also very sad that you might allow your girlfriend to browbeat and blackmail you if she should find out about the CDing. :sad: Why would you allow yourself to be treated this way?

I strongly recommend you look inside yourself to see if it is not perhaps your own difficulties with self-acceptance that are getting in the way of being honest with your girlfriend. Still, even if you do tell her now it will be difficult after having hid the CDing for 20 years. But, wouldn't it be better to face the music now than continue to live the way you do? Just wondering.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

She assumed he was gay, wanted to be woman, and is a sexual deviant, a sickness that needs curing.

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Nicole, surely you must have read time and time again here, these are the questions that most GGs, parents, siblings, and friends ask when they first find out. Heck, these are the very same questions CDs ask of themselves when they first start their exploration. Am I gay? Do I want to be a woman? Am I sick?

The wife just found out! Have you read MiamiMarie's post #48?

Hello Samantha,

Do you really think your wife hasn't noticed something amiss in your relationship over the last 6-7-8-years? Give her a little more credit than that.
I'd like to ask you just EXACTLY how much have you exagerated her response?

Now is the time to stop lying. The truth is. IT IS NOT JUST CLOTHES AND YOU ARE NOT ABLE TO QUIT. Now, the sooner you tell your wife the truth, the sooner you can get on with the healing.

From your first post, you asked yourself the same questions she is now asking you. What's the differance.
Can you not see how much your wife is hurt, sometimes pain is expressed in anger. I suggest you find a way to reasure her she is the best thing that ever happened to you.. and if you don't feel that way, I feel very sorry for you both.

12 years is a terrible thing to waist.

Presh GG

This sounds so familiar.

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Originally Posted by ninapuella

1. If she really loves you she will get over it. If she not get over it she will just use it as an excuse for her own uncomfy lifesituation. I cant see how crossdressing would be the major factor of why a couple gets a divorce. I mean a divorce is a big thing and nothing you do just because of clothes. Women are very good to find these "problems" that give them the excuse to "run away" from a relation.

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This could be said 2 ways.. if he really loved her he would of told her years ago about his CDing..instead he was making excuses of why he couldnt tell her and lied to her for their whole relationship about who he is and what he likes instead of making a false image of himself and who he thinks she wants him to be. never allowing her to fall in love with the real him. divorce is a BIG thing and lying to your SO about something so major as who you are and who you portray yourself to be in a BIG thing..Its more then just the "clothes" if it was "just the clothes" then you all would be satisfied with wearing mens clothes that is made up of the same fabric to get that "feeling" sensation

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Originally Posted by Pythos

Okay. YOur wife is being a manipulative B**ch. The whole saying "I don't care..." and using that as a "trap" is absolute BS, and you should call her on that. YOu can now tell her because of that you will never trust her again. You can also (why do I find myself harping on this) tell her that her reaction is EXACTLY the reason you hid this aspect of yourself. Irrational behavior on HER part.

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Ok so I wanted to kinda reply to a similar comment you made before Pythos in my husbands post when he first posted that I found his "stash" and found out after 15yrs of marriage and a total of 19yrs together.. you called me a irrational B*itch then.. cause why I was scared and afraid of my future.. I was uncertain of the man that I married and the man I thought I knew.. I am sure you would act the same way if someone pulled the wool over your eyes too.. love .. love makes us do crazy things and say crazy things especially when we get scared and are unsure. in no way does that just make us b*itches.. seems like a common reply with you when you respond to posts which involve wives or SOs who just find out the secret their loved one has been keeping from them.. maybe you should grow a heart a bit and look deep inside that there is alot of hurt there and the couple now needs all the support they can get.. both the man and the WOMAN..Sure it may be "just clothes" but from those "just clothes" formed the lie which has infected their relationship.

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Originally Posted by MiamiMarie

I'll bet your wife thought she knew everything about you and your sexuality. I bet she thought she knew you better than you knew yourself. Now, she finds herself married to a fantastic liar who's sexuality she has no clue about (and she can't trust what you tell her yet). .

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I must completely agree with this.. and its something I myself have felt/feels too.

Samantha..

you did make the mistake of not being honest with your wife and hiding this part of you from her and lying to her about who you are.. that is something you will have to deal with and you will have to show her how much you love her.. you will have to rebuild that trust in her which as we all know wont happen over night. she deserves you now to be 100% honest with everything.. nows the time not to hide anything. She still needs you.. she fell in love with you you need to show her that the man she fall in love with and married and had a beautiful family with is not gone..you need to set your desires aside for a bit and focus on her.. focus on the both of you..

Coming from expirence and me finding my husbands stash only a few months ago.. it hurts.. i told him i would rather have learned that he had cheated on me cause thats easier for my brain to wrap around not that its better.. but i had no real knowledge of CDing..so a lot of things and words rush out of a wives mouth.. but the furthest thing from my mind was telling anyone.. i was ashamed and embarrassed and still am a bit inside I really dont want anyone to know..but back to the point..when a wives first finds out on her own there are a big rush of emotions that run through her head and it becomes over whelmed with hurt and anger.. which isnt a good combination.. which could possibly be why she said the threats.. shes scared.. we all usually say things we dont mean in the heat of the moment.. but i agree you both need to talk to someone and start the lines of communication..

if you wife is willing sometime I think that her joining the forums here would be good for her.. I joined and i love the GG's here they have helped me so very much and it gives me a great place to vent.

good luck to you!

"I fail to see the big issue"

"They are just clothes"

Samantha, if you would take some time to read the stickies concerning how to tell a partner, what the GGs would say and the top of Loved Ones you may, after some reflection, have some idea how women/wives feel about all the issues you have raised.
I dont' want to sound trite but everything you are going through is so commonplace-we've all been ther, as cders or spouses.
Why is it such a big deal? Your deception has ruined your wife's respect for you. It's not the clothes, it's the deception. How would you feel if she had been carrying on an online affair for 6years 'Oh, it's just words, honey...' I don't think so.
If you don't want to loose your family and particularly your wife, read those words in the stickies, apologise for what you have done, (we're suckers for an apology) and offer to see a counsellor if your wife will agree.
DO NOT UNDERESTMATE HOW MUICH YOU HAVE HURT HER. IT WILL TAKE YEARS TO PUT THIS RIGHT. SO HOW BIG A DEAL IS THAT?

This is a really thought-provoking thread which touches some important aspects of communication and telling or not telling. I've read some responses that are quite wise. I especially appreciate the responses pointing out the issue of lost trust. I do agree with those who say that an SO is liable to react in any way imaginable, and understandably so. It is a big deal to tell someone this information!! Yes, we can say it is just about clothes, but at least for me, it is so much more than that. I don't want to speak for anyone else, because for some perhaps it is only about clothing. For me, clothing is simply an outer indicator of my true gender identity, and I know that isn't a small deal to drop on a spouse!

Last year before I actually came out to my wife, I knew I was risking our marriage, and there were times I said to myself it was just about clothes and why would she have a problem with that? But I knew that the discussion of clothing would quickly lead to other questions about sexuality and gender. My wife, who is the most amazing person I've ever met, accepted this information and understood that I needed to dress and also understood that I identify as a female in a male body. She loves me, and didn't see this as a threat to our relationship, because it isn't. I'm extremely lucky to be married to her, and to have a wife who not only accepts, but encourages my girly side.

Having said all that, I want to touch on the topic of deception or lying. I do think there are some people who keep a secret and sneak around with their dressing, trying to keep it hidden from their SO. That just isn't right. A person doing this needs to have a discussion ASAP to get it out in the open, because it's going to come out sooner or later. There are others, however, whose motivation isn't to deceive. In my case, I had never been in love before meeting my wife. Yes, I new that I crossdressed since an early age, but I illogically thought that being in love would make it go away. I have no idea why I thought that; it seems so silly. So we got married, and after two years of marriage with NO crossdressing on my part, I realized that the desire to crossdress wasn't going to go away because I was in love. So I initiated a discussion with my wife and disclosed to her this lifelong desire to crossdress. I think it's important that I wasn't dressing in secret. Yet I had some new information to share with her. I think there is a difference between participating in a secret activity and realizing that a desire isn't going to go away and talking about it openly.

Please everyone, if you're secretly dressing, have a talk with your SO. You know your SO is going to find out at some point and it isn't going to go well if she/he finds out by accident.

"Other than offending everyone’s delicate sensibilities..."

I'm so sorry for the hard time you're going through. I'm sure many of us have been there in some form. I believe you will not make it far in this ordeal unless you are willing to rethink this quote. This is not just about people (your wife) being picky. Others have pointed out the hard truth of the issue of deception by omision, but I also remind you that the idea of her man in nylons, heels, bras, panties, dresses, lingerie, etc. is not at all attractive. In fact it is revolting precisely the way you might find it revolting if she strapped on a dildo and chest hair, and confessed to having lived her whole life with a serious "manly" side. Not cool. It is also very much as if you have been getting your "woman" on the side, even though there is no other woman in actuality. You have been involved with getting close to a female persona that is not her and quite pleased with it. Most crossdressers never think about this side of the coin. It's just as confusing and different as our side of the coin, only more helpless for the others because they aren't the one's who decided to act the way you acted all these years. I plead with you to find it in your heart to fogive your wife for her misunderstandings and to compassionately go to her to be reconciled, even if it means giving this up. I ask the reverse question- does 12 years of being a faithful wife and mother to your kids mean so little that you will let it end so that you can go on wearing nylons? There may be the possibility of compromise, there may not. But I don't believe much can be well accomplished while people are locked into their defenses.

It seems that the main theme of this thread is tell all before. What if you don't want to tell her. I know that it will be not popular. But each person has their own reason for not telling. Mine was that I was not that a confident person when meeting women at first. This continued when I first met my wife I didn't want to do anyting that would drive her away and had many rejections before her. I know I should've told her, but I didn't and nearly paid the ultimate price.

Keeping this secret from your wife was your biggest mistake.

You went to great lengths to hide this from her so naturally she will feel very deceived.
So if there is any reason not to trust you again then you only have yourself to blame.

Honesty is the best policy and you should have come out about it rather than her finding out because you screwed up.
If you are honest you have the best hope of retaining your dignity, in this case you weren't so I am afraid to tell you
that your dignity has gone completely out the door. No use trying to close the gate now, the horse has already bolted.

You just have to find the best way to deal with it now.

Good luck :hugs:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Nicole, surely you must have read time and time again here, these are the questions that most GGs, parents, siblings, and friends ask when they first find out. Heck, these are the very same questions CDs ask of themselves when they first start their exploration. Am I gay? Do I want to be a woman? Am I sick?

The wife just found out! Have you read MiamiMarie's post #48?

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I've not just read it, I've lived it. As a youngster, I asked myself those questions. My wife asked me the same questions.
Before the information age, many of us dealt wth our crossdressing desires alone. As we know from many testimonies, many of us thought that marriage would cure our crossdressing, so no need to tell the fiance. When we realized we were wrong, we were already in deep. It wasn't intentional, but the deceit happened out of our own ignorance. Most of us who have been through this agree that it would have been better to tell, but we don't get another chance. We have no choice to take it from here.
I lost my first wife because she could not tolerate a crossdressing husband. Before anyone tells me they know more about my marriage than I did, and that the real issue was the deceit, yes, the deceit was an issue at first. She was reasonable in listening to me explain my history, my desires, and my fears requiring me to keep my secret, and she ended up understanding. She loved me still, and respected that I was a good husband and father. But, she just couldn't stomach a crossdressing husband.
When I told my second wife, she asked the same questions (are you gay, want to be a woman). She accepts my crossdressing.
It is my observation and opinion that crossdressers and their wives/SO's tend to downplay the issue of cd-ing being unacceptable to some women, and that all the problems are about the deceit. While the deceit is the major issue in many cases, it is simply an assumption in Samantha's case. The wife expressed serious concerns about the crossdressing (gay? want to be a woman? sexual pervert) but Samantha's post raised no issue the wife had with the deceit.
My history is similar to Samantha's. I won't presume to speak for Samantha, but if I had it to do all over again, I would have told I was a cd before marriage. But that was my ignorance. Speaking of ignorance, the wife's views on crossdressing stem from ignorance. We're not necessarily gay, don't want to be a woman, and aren't perverts. In an instant of revealing a very private and personal part of himself, a good responsible husband, father, and citizen suddenly became an ogre.
Let's stop beating Samantha up for selflishly not telling the wife sooner, and start trying to help get through this difficult ordeal.

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Originally Posted by Samantha X

Hey y’all.

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Hey yourself, glad you came to us. Sorry you were busted but some psychologists will tell you it wasn't an accident. You see when you hide something it gets easier to "forget" when you are putting things away. But that's all water under the dam.

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I’m not looking for sympathy

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Not sympathy but you will get a lot of empathy I am sure

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Well one day I forgot to delete after spending a few minutes with you all. When my wife found the site she freaked out to say the least.

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She read the title and quit. If she had taken the time to search the site she would have been surprised. Here is where you could have actually helped by saying "let me show you some of what we talk about here".

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I always wanted to tell her about it but was afraid of her reaction.

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Funny how that works. We are afraid of a reaction that most likely will happen anyway. Deceit grows with time and reactions get worse.

I am not going to quote the next few lines and paragraphs but I will say that it was TMI too fast. But I understand the flood of hopeful emotion

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Who was getting hurt?

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As it turned out you AND your wife because you were sneaking and hiding. That in and of itself screams "I think I am doing something wrong!!!"

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To me it seemed like a harmless hobby, like golf, an escape from a mundane life.

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You don't sneak around to golf or fish I would guess

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Asked me if I was gay. No matter how I present the truth about me not being gay she still doesn’t believe me. Or the fact that I have zero interest in transitioning to female or try to pass in public. She either doesn’t believe it or can’t see past the stereotypes.

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all the questions that get asked right off. And again...see this site and there are many many posts about not being any of those things which you could at least educate her with.

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I was told that I need to see a therapist to cure me of this evil sexual addiction.

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Seeing a therapist to come to grips with who you are is a good idea. Curing you is impossible. Getting her to understand who you are...good. Hoping you will quit and go on living Ward Cleaver's life....not so much

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Well, she holds all the cards now.

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Then you either bluff or fold. But she doesn't hold all the cards, you just need to play what you have been dealt (after you threw away pocket aces of being truthful earlier). You can own who you are, be ready to explain in concise and logical arguments how cross dressing affects the people who do it, how it isn't every little stereotypic image they think it is. You may need to even "come out" to certain people before she outs you because you can say how you are still the same person and how you always do the best for your family and job. Whereas she is going to call you a pervert and mentally unstable. You with good arguments vs her with emotional. Pre-emptive strike

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Heaven knows who in her family knows my secret. I don’t think she’s told anyone in the community yet. In a extremely religious small community like ours rumors would have been like wildfire by now but that hasn’t happened yet. My neighbors would view crossdressing as one step above (or below) necrophilia. But unless I agree to get “cured” of this sexual deviance then she’s kicking me out. And threatening to use this secret to take my boys away from me. And ruin my career.

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And blackmail is a very respectable crime in your community? Emotional blackmail is worse than hiding dressing up. So two wrongs will make a very bad relationship. If she is threatening these things she was one step out the door to start with. This may have been a tipping point but you were on that edge to start. There is little love left in this relationship and you didn't see that coming. She is refusing to try and understand and come to a reasonable conclusion. Maybe when she gets past the hiding, sneaking and lying you have done for 12 years she can be more reasonable. After all you weren't a bad person before this right?

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I still fail to see a big issue here.

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lying, sneaking behind her back, breach of trust...fairly big issues I think.

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Other than offending everyone’s delicate sensibilities

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see your comment about religious small community above...yes it is ignorant of them but you fed it by believing (and I think you still believe) that it is wrong and that you are somehow wrong in your feelings. You aren't wrong.

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really pisses me off to hear women complain about having to wear dresses and bras and pantyhose and heels. I want to wear them and can’t.)

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Life sucks doesn't it? That is an issue you really need to come to grips with, you don't need that anger especially right now

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does the label “crossdresser" now erase every good thing I’ve done in my life and marriage?

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Nope

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Will my accomplishments be viewed through people’s extremely narrowminded lens from now on?

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Yep, but more from the trust stand point.

There are several paths you can take now. One you can purge and fight to never do this again. The trust issue will need to be mended. You won't be any more happy in your marriage than you were and will probably be less so, which leads to anger issues and fighting. Two, you can see a therapist (and she should also as was mentioned many times above) where you can work out ALL your issues and maybe make a compromise. If you still have love this can work out. Three you can ignore everything and hope it will go away until one day she plays the blackmail card (not a good option, you don't have enough outs for that to work). or four, take control of who you are, be who you are, work to mend the breaches, show how you really are not anyone different than you were, work toward a compromise yourselves.

Or you can move on with your life and she can move on with hers.

Sorry, no sympathy, just empathy and hope

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

I went back and re-read the OP and some of you should, too. The wife's issue isn't that she was betrayed for so many years, but that her husband crossdresses.
She assumed he was gay, wanted to be woman, and is a sexual deviant, a sickness that needs curing. Sure, there were many years of living a secret life, but assuming that the lie is the main problem is reading into the OP something that wasn't there. I think the wife is one of those who cannot tolerate a crossdressing husband. Most of her assumptions about crossdressing are incorrect, but that's her reality, and Samantha's.
What good is it doing to remind Samantha that the wife should have been told long ago? Samantha is seeking advise on where to go from here. This forum is full of testimonies of cd's who thought that marriage would cure them. OK, we were all wrong. We don't get a do-over. Must go forward.

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The OP appears to be upset that his wife won't believe him. The OP didn't have the perspective to understand a strong possibility as to why that is. Now, the OP does. Identifying a serious failing in the OP's perspective, that of thinking of this massive lie as 'no big deal', and the dichotomy that if it's no big deal, then telling should have been easy...but it wasn't, is a good thing.

That lesson provides a basis for moving forward, at least in part. The wife has every right to be angry, every right to not believe the OP now. The OP needs to step back and begin to realize the very serious role they had in creating this problem in the first place if they are to ever find their way forward.

Yes, I agree, the wife is likely one that will be very strongly unaccepting. But that doesn't mean that is the only reason for her being so upset.

Bridging a gap requires admittance of error on both parts, and a slow process of reconciliation based on honesty, openness, and commitment. The OP can't hope to accomplish that by feeling the error is all hers, the blow up is because she's narrow minded, and what he is doing is 'no big deal'.

There are some very wise replies in there, especially from the GGs, which make me proud to be a member of this forum.

And then there are some that make me downright embarrassed!

I'm siding with the wife here. I simply cannot imagine being in a relationship with someone and hiding something of this magnitude from her (or him). As others have said, ultimately it comes down to a selfish desire for self preservation, to have your cake and eat it too. No wonder there is a school of feminism that despises us. Also, I think explaining your dressing in origin as some type of sexual gratification did not help your case with your wife, who seems to be fairly conservative on that front. (though if it really was, its good that the truth about your sexuality is out there too)

Ahh from the responses I skimmed, seems a lot of them talk about how you betrayed your wife or whatever.

She will get over it. thing is, if your marriage was unstable enough that this disrupts things, maybe it is time to move on. My wife and I divorced partially cause of who I am and while it does suck sometimes not having a partner, at least I can move on in life as I see fit without someone nagging.

See here is the problem - You can't tell a potential girlfriend/wife cause she won't like you. But then when you wait, all the sudden you "betrayed" or some crap.
Well then, when the hell you suppose to explain this?

And in your case, so you like to dress in private and try to not involve others. How the hell they suppose to hold that against you? Is a person not suppose to have a private life at all?

When an unaccepting wife finds out, I find it interesting how they are not upset by the dressing, but by the "betrayal" Oh bull, they are upset by the dressing more than anything. If she had found out you had a gambling problem say, that would be a different story.

You dressed in private, you didn't try to force it on anyone, you didn't write off responsibility like work or family for this. You did nothing wrong.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

I went back and re-read the OP and some of you should, too. The wife's issue isn't that she was betrayed for so many years, but that her husband crossdresses.

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No the OP's perception is that the cross dressing was the issue. All the "are you gay, want to be a woman, want a man" questions are not about the clothing but about about what the wife thinks the clothing represents. The fact that it was a hiiden and subversive hobby seems to be tha issue with the OP. Harmless, in their view, undermining the relationship in mine (and I would say hers too). If it was just the clothes taht bothered her, then she would have saidn "Get rid of the clothes and everything will be OK".

[SIZE="3"]Sam, I am very sorry and saddened to hear of this trouble. My heart goes out to you. I am single, so can't really understand your situation that well. I am not going to "SHOULD ON YOU" about not telling her earlier. I would agree, that seeing a therapist/counsellor, that is neutral, may be best, if you can afford one, and that both of you go. I wish she would get some education on crossdressing, and also realize, that women were considered crossdressing, when they started wearing pants, and other mens clothes, decades ago.If counselling doesn't help, making some kind of compromise, may work, but, its true, that some of these things end in seperation. A neutral therapist with some knowledge of gender issues may be a good start, if she is willing. [/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Before the information age, many of us dealt wth our crossdressing desires alone. As we know from many testimonies, many of us thought that marriage would cure our crossdressing, so no need to tell the fiance.

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I know this. I really do understand how difficult it must have been for CDers to understand about themselves prior to the internet. But, the OP has been lying to his wife even after forums such as this one were online.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

Let's stop beating Samantha up for selflishly not telling the wife sooner, and start trying to help get through this difficult ordeal.

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The last thing I want to do is to beat Samantha up as I said in my first post in this thread. But, Samantha will not be able to move forward in her marriage if she persists in saying "it is no big deal", and if she doesn't look inside herself to determine what the CDing fundamentally means to her. If it wasn't such a big deal, if it was only about wearing silky things, it wouldn't be an issue since I'm sure Samantha could wear silky male clothes and she wouldn't feel the need to hide this from her wife. I am attempting to inject a dose or reality by encouraging Samantha to be real with helself and eventually with her wife, to hopefully help them overcome their current impasse.

Samantha can choose to look at it however she wants to. But, IMO she will not do herself or her marriage any favors if she disregards what most people in this thread are telling her. :sad: At this point it's not about looking back at the lies. It's about moving realistically forward, hopefully with a marital counselor to first tackle the trust issues.

The fundemental issue here is that Samantha and her wife are in trouble. Both of them may have made mistakes and may have unrealistic expectations of the other. But this conflict cannot and will not be resolved unless both parties are willing to take responsibility for their own actions. For the purposes of resolving this conflict, they need to be able to put aside what each may feel is justification of their position. If they can't do that, there's little hope for a reconcilliation.

Reine, I understand that you're not beating up on Samantha but rather trying to get her to take responsibility for her role in this mess. I believe that both of us and many others want to help any way we can by giving our views (but see post #60 for "it's all your fault" finger-pointing with nothing positive to contribute). Yes, we know we screwed up when we didn't tell when we should have.
I have read and re-read the OP. Samantha's "no big deal" comments refer to the dressing, not the wife's reaction to finding out. Obviously, Samantha knows that this is a big deal and is very distressed about it. But Samantha is right about "no big deal" dressing. It was done in private, at little expense, not very often, and did not detract from any responsibilities as a husband or father. Are we not entitled to a little privacy, private thoughts and activities that don't affect anybody else? Would the wife had gone ballistic if he had been, in his private time and place, reading Harlequin Romances or working crossword puzzles? No, it wasn't just the deceit, it was the crossdressing. And what is so horrible about crossdressing, Samantha asks. What's the big deal?
Let's not let the wife off the hook. She lied by saying she didn't care what he's into, she just wanted to know. So Samantha told all, the whole story, and got clobbered. When Samantha came clean, she gets screwed. When the wife deceived, she's the victim.
Lorileah, I believe that like others, you want the best outcome for Samantha, and want her to understand her blame in the deal. I must disagree with you on one point, though, the pre-emptive strike. It looks to me like the wife, among other things, is afraid of her own embarrassment of being married to a crossdresser. So despite the threats of telling others, I wouldn't bet that she will. Coming out as a pre-emptive strike could be exactly what the wife wouldn't want to see. Just my opinion.
Counseling could help, but going to counseling to get the other spouse to see things your way won't work. They have to be working for the same thing. Where counseling could do the best is to open up the dialogue between Sam and wife. They really need to talk, but if it's going to work, the wife is going to have to start believing the truth instead of her own foregone conclusions about crossdressers. Samantha has opened up and needs to see the damage done by the years of hiding, but the wife must start thinking, talking, and acting rationally. And honestly.
Samantha, don't give in to extortion, or it will never end. I wish you the best, and I hope you'll keep us informed.

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

When an unaccepting wife finds out, I find it interesting how they are not upset by the dressing, but by the "betrayal" Oh bull, they are upset by the dressing more than anything. If she had found out you had a gambling problem say, that would be a different story.

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BS I think a lot of the GGs on here would beg to differ with you

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

When an unaccepting wife finds out, I find it interesting how they are not upset by the dressing, but by the "betrayal" Oh bull, they are upset by the dressing more than anything.

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If that were the case, wouldn't someone be equally upset about seeing a random crossdresser on television or the street?

Someone might have an opinion about it, but it is the attachment to the person and the subsequent revealing of that person's true and previously concealed nature that causes the hurt feelings.

The key is that beyond the dressing there is the deep feeling of 'you are not who you led me to believe you were'. And this particular person seems to be relatively conservative in terms of values, which, coupled with what seems like a general ignorance about what crossdressing is, can lead to a lot of pain and confusion.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

But Samantha is right about "no big deal" dressing. It was done in private, at little expense, not very often, and did not detract from any responsibilities as a husband or father. Are we not entitled to a little privacy, private thoughts and activities that don't affect anybody else?

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There is a huge difference between a harmless hobby such as reading Harlequin romances or doing crosswords (using your examples), and hiding a fundamental part of one's gender ID and sexuality,

I'm assuming when you say it is harmless, you see Samantha's CDing as being similar to your own, which you occasionally explain here as being a fetish. (Just to be clear, I do not put down fetish dressers). But, I would be heartbroken if I found out that my husband got off on things that he hid from me for years and that did not involve me. I would liken this to wanting to be with another woman and checking his email every so often to see if she had written (as compared to logging in here), and it would be a "big deal" to me. Even if my husband was in the room with me in body most of the time, he would not be 100% present since I'm sure there is an element of looking forward to "private time" and internet time that men who do not CD in hiding do not experience. Why is this so difficult to understand?

If on the other hand the CDing is not fetish or sexual for Samantha, then it must surely have a gender ID component, and this is also a "big deal". Does this make sense?

I don't blame Samantha's wife for insisting on knowing the truth. She wants an emotionally intimate and honest relationship with her husband. It's a pity he doesn't want the same, or that he may believe it is "no big deal" to bring an activity into his marriage that is a barrier to an emotionally honest and intimate relationship as long as it is hidden.

As previously said, the hiding is a moot point now. But to believe it is harmless to keep this from a wife is not OK, whether it is fetish or not.

At this point I've contributed all I can on this topic and I will not post more in this thread.

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Originally Posted by alana_v

The key is that beyond the dressing there is the deep feeling of 'you are not who you led me to believe you were'. And this particular person seems to be relatively conservative in terms of values, which, coupled with what seems like a general ignorance about what crossdressing is, can lead to a lot of pain and confusion.

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I think you hit it spot on.. atleast for me this was one of the major issues that I felt when I first discovered on my own.

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

When an unaccepting wife finds out, I find it interesting how they are not upset by the dressing, but by the "betrayal" Oh bull, they are upset by the dressing more than anything. If she had found out you had a gambling problem say, that would be a different story.

You dressed in private, you didn't try to force it on anyone, you didn't write off responsibility like work or family for this. You did nothing wrong.

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I totally disagree, the OP did everything wrong by being so deceitful & dishonest!

Lorileah is right onto it here....

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

No the OP's perception is that the cross dressing was the issue. All the "are you gay, want to be a woman, want a man" questions are not about the clothing but about about what the wife thinks the clothing represents. The fact that it was a hidden and subversive hobby seems to be the issue with the OP. Harmless, in their view, undermining the relationship in mine (and I would say hers too). If it was just the clothes that bothered her, then she would have said, "Get rid of the clothes and everything will be OK".

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I totally agree.... Its one thing to expect a wife to understand about the cross-dressing aspect of things here, but its a completely separate & more serious situation when it come to expecting the wife to get over the betrayal aspect of this situation while her cross-dressing husband is not willing to even address the problem & remedy the situation.

Here is a true story & it's nothing about cross-dressing, but its all about faith & trust. I kicked my son out of home after I found out he was stealing from me and lied about it. Sure I wouldn't have been happy to find out he stole from me, but he had a better chance of maintaining his dignity if he was honest about it, then tried to rectify & remedy the problem. I kicked my son out because he was in total denial of the problem when I knew differently. His own girlfriend called me up & told me that he stole from me & what he did with the goods that he took from me. If my son wasn't willing to acknowledge the mistake he made & remedy the situation, how could I trust him enough to ever want to give him another chance? The bottom-line is that my son completely destroyed all the faith & trust I ever had in him - now he is on his own until he learns to be accountable & take responsibility for his own actions.

I see you are six foot six, 240. Almost exactly my size, so I can empathize with you not feeling passable in public. It is extra humiliating for you being so tall. It would be for me, but i have gone out several times a year. again, I hope the conflict can be resolved one way or another, in peace.

Reine, it's not difficult to understand why you don't think fetish dressing is harmless when you equate it with cheating on a spouse. I don't think it is, and neither does my wife, who knows about my dressing activities but chooses not to participate but allows me my privacy. That may not work for you, but it works for us.

Sure, Samantha's wife wanted to know the truth but lied to get it. Sam chose to come clean instead of lie. That was met with hostility and threats instead of any desire to repair a badly damaged marriage due to his deceit. Samantha is not blowing off as no big deal her reaction, but only the act of wearing silky things because she likes it. In the OP, Samantha never mentions that the wife went ballistic because of the lie, but only because of the crossdressing. Yet many of you insist that the deceit is the major issue, without any evidence.

Samantha continues to get thrown under the bus.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Even if my husband was in the room with me in body most of the time, he would not be 100% present since I'm sure there is an element of looking forward to "private time" and internet time that men who do not CD in hiding do not experience. Why is this so difficult to understand?

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I think that's drawing a distinction that's a little too unrealistic. Almost all men have "private time" and Internet time, even happily married men. That's just the way of the world. The difference is that ostensibly the porn men watch is on some level similar to the relations they are having with their wives--sure the wives probably don't have the bodies of the women in porn and things are racier, but on a general level it's the same sort of thing. An SO hearing about it for the first time is going to assume it's a fetish. So rather than comparing it to gambling, compare it to a fetish like spanking or something like that. A wife is going to feel like it is retroactively making the history of vanilla marital relations a lie.

Of course in addition there are plenty of women who think crossdressing is a sin or a mental illness or whatever, and that's at the very least misinformed. But even someone as accepting as I am would feel it a blow below the belt to find out after years of marriage.

There is another lesson to be learned from this story, and that is how to use the "incognito window" function of Google Chrome. Press Ctrl-Shift-N to get a new window that won't save any of your search terms or browsing history onto your computer. In Internet Explorer, it's Ctrl-Shift-P. Just make sure to close these windows when you get up from the computer!

Honesty is certainly preferable when it comes to wives and girlfriends, but I'm sure most if not all of us share computers with relatives or friends or co-workers that we'd rather not expose this stuff to. Actually, scratch co-workers. They usually manage your browsing history at work through their servers anyway, so these tools won't help you much there. It's kind of sad, but I've become very good at being dishonest and hiding things from people I'm close to, thanks to crossdressing in some form or another since early grade school and having a super-religious mom. I was never caught though, so all that practice paid off. :straightface:

OP, I was going to reply personally, but for some reason cannot send you any message. So.....
What upsets the vast majority of women most, is the destruction of the image she had of you as her 'masculine' husband. We fall in love with the image we create of our mate, based on what we know of them. That image has now been destroyed, and replaced by a feminine guy. Most women have absolutely no sexual attraction to that, in fact most are a bit repulsed at the idea of a guy acting like a female in any way. She has also lost any image of you as her reliable, stable mate, or even the strong guy she could count on no matter what, because to her, you've been deceiving her for a long time so everything you now say will be suspect as a possible lie. Feminine men are also considered potential liabilities should she need protection in any way, and you're also saddled with that problem because even if you're a professional wrestler, she's gonna think that there's now always the possibility you could 'wimp out' and be more sissy than guy when the chips are down.
I went through all that, did everything I could to convince my ex that I was still the same guy she married. Nothing worked. I don't know how to fix it. All I can say, is, Good luck.

So I know I will probably catch the wrath of the forum for my comments I am about to make. They are not intended as antagonistic but more so just a different view and discussion points.

Samantha, question for you. If you had told your wife about your hobby on your wedding night, do you think she would have bolted out the door or stayed with you?

Has she stated what the "wrong" thing is with what you have done (and might I add to this point in total privacy)?

If she had never found out about your hobby, do you think your marriage would happily last for decades to come?

It appears to me, that your initial instincts to make CDing a private thing was the right thing. Maybe not right for everyone, but for you and a lot of others.

I have stated before on this forum and I will say it again, even though the masses disagree - I believe a relationship is more healthy if both parties maintain a private life, as well as a shared one. Why not keep things that are not outside of your marital commitments but just the same, something you would prefer to kept to yourself.

Samantha, final questions - If you had it all to do over again, knowing what you know now - would you still have CD'd over the years? Would you have ever told your wife of your hobby had she not found your computer on?

I hope you both find happiness and peace, I am not judgemental of you or your wife but I am rooting from the sidelines that you find happiness and peace together.
Ellie

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Originally Posted by cordgrass

I think that's drawing a distinction that's a little too unrealistic. Almost all men have "private time" and Internet time, even happily married men. That's just the way of the world.

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I can't stay out of this thread. lol

I agree with what you're saying, and if CDers could turn it on and off at will, like a guy who's not addicted to porn but who enjoys the occasional foray, there wouldn't be a problem. But judging from the posts I read here, endulging in a feminine expression is akin to having an obsession for many CDers, even more so when it is hidden. There's no telling whether Samantha has minimized her desires described in her OP though. But I did say what I said based on reading descriptions of the oft discussed "pink fog", the sheer high that CDers experience when they can express themselves where everything else in their lives pales by comparison.

Maybe members here exaggerate how they feel when dressed and how much they look forward to private time, I don't know.

I have personal experience with keeping secrets and with wanting to be elsewhere than the now. It does prevent partners from being fully present in relationships. And it does erode trust, especially if the other partner has no understanding of what is going on.

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Originally Posted by EllieOPKS

Samantha, question for you. If you had told your wife about your hobby on your wedding night, do you think she would have bolted out the door or stayed with you?

If she had never found out about your hobby, do you think your marriage would happily last for decades to come?

It appears to me, that your initial instincts to make CDing a private thing was the right thing.

Why not keep things that are not outside of your marital commitments but just the same, something you would prefer to kept to yourself.

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I was so ready to answer this but now I am dumbfounded. The wedding night is really well beyond the telling your spouse stage. This is something that no matter what you think is important for your future partner to know. It isn't something where you roll over, smile and say "gee that was fun and now that we are committed forever, let me tell you a few secrets." Is this so hard to grasp for some here? This is a commitment you all say that, it isn't just a let's see how it goes for a few weeks and then make a decision. Let's try something here. You get married you have visions of 2.3 kids, white picket fence, vacations in Disneyworld and on your wedding night your wife says she cannot have children and does not even like children, hates New England cottages or anything that has to do with picket fences and is afraid of Goofy. Yes I know that is over simplistic. What if she fails to disclose a marriage she is in? Her religious tenets that preclude you from doing certain things together. There are a myriad of possibilities. Yes you can say we will get counseling but that may never change her mind on any of it (just like you can never "cure" being transgendered). You make it worse by hiding all this for years. Years you cannot get back. Years that you could have had those children or house or visited the Magic Castle. Your whole concept seems to be reinforcing self centeredness in marriage. It is, last time I checked except in some rigid religions, an equal partnership, even Steven, good for goose and gander.

While I agree that there should be some interests that are not shared, say fly fishing or movies or using a metal detector on the beach, if it will in any way affect your relationship it should be revealed. And being a CD will affect your relationship. And you KNOW this before you get married, you know what she thinks of most things in life, yet you remain silent...fear of never finding someone?? Fear that no one will ever love you for who you are??? Willing to hide for your sake, not theirs. I hear so often here that people hide this to protect the marriage, the children, the job. No you are protecting what YOU want to protect. You are not considering your spouse. If she does not like cross dressers and you know it you hurt her chance at happiness because she will find out. And it is easier to get on with life if you don't have all the "things" you gather as you live together.

Ok I know I am yelling into the wind here. I know that 90% of the members here are just like Clark Kent. You don't have to announce it from the mountain top but you have to tell the ones who rely on the image you are projecting. The have a vested interest in this life.

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Samantha, final questions - If you had it all to do over again, knowing what you know now - would you still have CD'd over the years? Would you have ever told your wife of your hobby had she not found your computer on?

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Well duh, you know the answer. If you knew the stove was on would you have touched the burner? Samantha had a real good idea that stove was hot but kept almost touching the burner, how close can I get before I get burned. That may have been part of the thrill, how bad can I be and still get away with it? Maybe even thinking it is easier to apologize than to ask permission. If Samantha could turn back the clock, I am sure she would have.

I still think there is a deeper problem here and cross dressing is just a convienent excuse and as long as Samatha remains afraid od being exposed it will be a fulcrum in the separation, one that even though not a legal issue will be an issue in who gets what and when. I think honestly that snooping in someone's history in the browser is very low and really an indication of the morality of the snooper as much as the snoopie. There was a trust problem long before the computer was left on

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Originally Posted by Katesback

I suggest you be STRONG and say flat out this is who I am to her. I suggest you NEVER show shame and NOT hide nor justify who you are.

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I agree.

You aren't screwed, in a blackmail way, if you don't let her have any leverage. If she threatens to tell, say, "go ahead. I'm not ashamed of being who I am. I didn't ask for this to happen to me, but since it did, I accept who I am. In time, I hope you can to."

Maybe the marriage will last, maybe it won't, but don't live in fear.

Do not let her kick you out of the house. Refuse to leave. If you move out the courts will consider it abandonment and it will make it easier for your wife to take your kids away.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

I know this. I really do understand how difficult it must have been for CDers to understand about themselves prior to the internet. But, the OP has been lying to his wife even after forums such as this one were online.

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No. Quite frankly you don't have any idea what it is like. You don't have any idea what it is like to be a guy and have to pretend to be super macho, and defend your masculinity even while being taunted for doing it by the people you would love nothing more than to be with. You have no idea what it is like to live in a society that is so afraid of what you are that it openly mocks, ridicules, and murders others like you who are found out. And suggesting that you do know what it like is arrogant and offensive beyond measure. Like all privileged people you are completely ignorant of your own privilege, and you honestly believe that you know what those who are not fortunate enough to be like you feel. You really have no idea.

But perhaps if you did you would stop trying so hard to justify a wife's anger around this issue.

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Originally Posted by Tina2

Do not let her kick you out of the house. Refuse to leave. If you move out the courts will consider it abandonment and it will make it easier for your wife to take your kids away.

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This

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Originally Posted by DonnaT

You aren't screwed, in a blackmail way, if you don't let her have any leverage. If she threatens to tell, say, "go ahead. I'm not ashamed of being who I am. I didn't ask for this to happen to me, but since it did, I accept who I am. In time, I hope you can to."

Maybe the marriage will last, maybe it won't, but don't live in fear.

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And a double dose of this.

Samantha, I am sorry for your troubles. So much has been said here, but I didn't see anything direct about education. When I was first learning about my SOs femme side, I knew almost NOTHING of the trans world. I had a couple of gender queer acquaintances, but I knew nothing of their personal experiences and journeys. So even though you have a deeper understanding of what it means and four years of experience on this (awesome) forum, remember that she knows almost nothing about what CDing is. So of course she is going to have a skewed horrible perception of it (most people do bc it's so often hidden, in the closet and seen as not normal - not my feeling, but most of society's). Of course she's freaked about the CDing itself, how could she not be? It's completely foreign to her. She is going to be the Spanish Inquisition of Gender until she learns and understands what it means to be you. So, yes, go to therapy. Answer her questions. Try to get her to come here - the FAB forum is a great, safe space for her. It's going to take months, years, even. GO SLOWLY. Someone else said it was TMI all at once. Open your heart. Tell her about your personal journey. You won't win her over by saying, "I don't see that harm in what I'm doing." (even though you might feel that way.) That will piss her off because you are not affirming her feelings. She feels harmed by this because she was lied to and has missed out on a huge part of your life.

Just keep talking. It works. I have said (and thought) some crazy stuff to my SO. I'm glad he was able to see that it was coming from a scared place and could hear the feeling behind it more than the actually meaning of the words. Your wife is scared. She's throwing everything she can at you, she is trying to take control of the situation. She feels out of control. The only thing she can actually control is herself. Not you.

Good luck.

Wow... I couldn't let this one go...

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Originally Posted by Hope

No. Quite frankly you don't have any idea what it is like.

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How do you know Reine doesn't know what it's like, do you actually live in her home, do you actually know anything about Reines life? no? oh right... silly me, thought you did :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hope

You don't have any idea what it is like to be a guy and have to pretend to be super macho, and defend your masculinity even while being taunted for doing it by the people you would love nothing more than to be with.

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Wow and I guess you have every idea of what it's like to be a woman living in a MANS world do you? Defending our rights to wear trousers many years ago, defending the right to equal pay etc etc...

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Originally Posted by Hope

You have no idea what it is like to live in a society that is so afraid of what you are that it openly mocks, ridicules, and murders others like you who are found out. And suggesting that you do know what it like is arrogant and offensive beyond measure.

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Wow, this had me gobsmacked, now you're just being plain rude and ignorant yourself. What gave you the right to speak to Reine like that? I know Reine will defend herself regarding this, but this statement is just pure :BS: and you know it!! Do you think people just openly mock, ridicule and murder the TS community? You really must live a sheltered life if you think that :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Hope

Like all privileged people you are completely ignorant of your own privilege, and you honestly believe that you know what those who are not fortunate enough to be like you feel. You really have no idea.

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And you're just simply an ignorant fool who needs to get a clue :Angry3:

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Originally Posted by Hope

But perhaps if you did you would stop trying so hard to justify a wife's anger around this issue.

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Oh puh-lease, you have NO idea what it's like to be the woman who's partner has lied for a number of years about dressing in womens clothes, no idea how a woman feels inside about being betrayed and not being able to talk to anyone because their man is so ashamed, they don't want to be outed by the woman... if you had any idea how that feels, then you'd have a clue, but you don't... :thumbsdn:

Well being from the pre-computer generation myself, I too went through a similar situation. I thought this would all go away when I got married, and like Samantha, it DID go away for several years. I had thought about telling my then fiance, and almost did, but changed my mind at the last minute. In hind sight for ME it was the right thing to do. I wasnt trying to lie to my wife, I was just an uneducated CD at the time trying to figure out what was going on, and trying to deal with this coming back after I thought otherwise. I have been married for 18 years and my wife has now known for 4 of those years. She told me if I HAD told her before we were married she would have went the other direction. When she found out she had all the usual questions asked in the OP, I told the truth and it took quite awhile, a several months in fact before she understood my situation. She still has hopes of this going away, but it isnt a deal breaker. Samantha is in a little different situation that I was in, in the fact the her wife is dead set against it. My best advice is to give her what she wants, go to therapy and by all means BOTH of you need to agree on a therapist. Have her pick a handful of possibilities and then you set down and agree upon one. This will probably mean she may have to "shelf" Samantha for an indefinate amount of time, and maybe forever. Will this stop Samantha from being a real part of HIS life? No! But one thing is for sure Samanthas wife needs to take the wheel and drive on this one until things get figured out. Taking the stance of "Prove It" is not the right thing to do, it will just piss her off and divorce is a good possible ending if you go this direction.

Samantha, Tread lightly, dont plead your case of being right. You are at your wifes mercy right now, the threats of blackmail could be real threats and you need to treat them as such. Let her ask the questions and just go with flow. Dont just try to give more info that is needed right now, it can come accross as pleading your case, let her ask the questions and answer them directly and honsetly!!

PM me if you need to talk or need advice from another CD.

Your wife can threaten or whatever but if she does, THEN what is she gonna try to hold over your head?

But yeah do not act shameful. some people love nothing more than to threaten or have some sort of sick control.

You don't get popular by being proud and shameless but it is easier than hiding.

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Originally Posted by Hope

And suggesting that you do know what it like is arrogant and offensive beyond measure. Like all privileged people you are completely ignorant of your own privilege, and you honestly believe that you know what those who are not fortunate enough to be like you feel.

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That was totally uncalled for. You have no idea who I am or what my life is like.

If I were you, I'd save the vitriol for the people who, in your words, openly mock, ridicule, and murder CDers and TSs. Not the people who empathize and who are supportive.

This is my first post here. I've cruised the forums for awhile, but this particular story made me want to join in.

I had a similar situation. I was crossdressing a lot when my now ex-wife and I first met. Suddenly, the desire went away. I was enthralled with her and lost the desire to altogether. When we decided to move in together, I purged all of my wigs, clothes, boots, shoes, etc... Several thousands of dollars of clothes just tossed out. I obviously regret it now. I'd love to have some of those outfits/shoes/boots back. I never told her about my CDing because I (just like many others have) felt like it was something I had outgrown and that my new found relationship was the answer to filling the void I had felt before. Crossdressing was just something I did to try to fill that void. Although, I would help her go shop and I spent a massive amount of money on lingerie , clothes, panties, bras, outfits, shoes, boots, etc. for her as I just loved the way they looked and loved the way they looked and felt on her body. Still, I wasn't dressing.

Her friends when we first met were all into the Rave/club scene and were big on "E" and the entire dance scene as was she. I myself, was take it or leave it with the entire idea, but I was friendly and fun and it was never a problem. Many of her friends had various "social stigmas" (for lack of a better word) attached to them... Gay, Bi, Swingers, Adulterers, Strippers, etc.. DISCLAIMER - I'M NOT SAYING THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THOSE THINGS. I'm merely making a point that a lot of society has not embraced most of those lifestyles and many think that some are taboo or reckless. Case-and-point... This is a forum for advice on Crossdressing. Argument made-point proven. Now, back to the story.

Although she wasn't really into any of those things/lifestyles, she never held any of it against those she was friends with and appreciated them for the person that they were and the way they treated her. Which is the way I've always been. She accepted them entirely and had a very laissez faire attitude in regards to everyone. We stopped doing those things for the most part after tying the knot. We had been married for about 2 years when we got invited out with her old crew. We went out to a party and rolled. We were back home, getting along, and laying in bed- all was good with the world and just like many times when on "E", you begin to talk and have extremely in-depth conversations about life. So, as our talks got more and more intimate, and I began to think about how accepting she was of everyone else and their lifestyles, I thought mentioning that I had crossdressed before would take us to a new level of honesty and trust and that I had completely overlooked all-along the fact that she was so accepting of everyone else that this wouldn't be a problem. Well, I couldn't have been more wrong. I let it the cat out of the bag about my prior crossdressing. I hadn't even gone in depth regarding makeup, shaving legs, wigs, breast forms, how much money I had spent on my femme clothes, practicing femme walk, and the late night walks/drives for thrill. Immediately she had a repulsed look on her face and the entire mood of the room changed. a countless number of questions followed... How long? Are you still doing it? What types of clothes? Did you talk like a girl? Who else knows? and of course, ... Are you gay? Which was followed by Have you ever been with a man? Are you lying to me? Have you ever kissed another man? etc...

Immediately, my manhood and character where tried and convicted without any chance to give an explanation. The woman who accepted ALL of her friends and their lifestyles, was suddenly the most obtuse and critical person I had ever encountered. It was awkward for a few days and we just sort of never talked about it or brought it up, but her view of me had changed. Our sex life started to suffer. It was then that I started dressing again using her clothes. I would steal a panty here, a panty there, etc.. and my stress and anxiety started to diminish. Eventually, I sat down and tried to explain why I dressed and how much I loved the feel of satin, vinyl, leather, etc.. Hence my name Shiny-J. So, she begrudgingly accepted it and as I spent hours reiterating my love for her, she came around.. kind of.... She said that I could wear panties and said she would take me shopping to find them. Well, I picked out the ones with bows and bikini/thong style, etc.. She said they were too femme and she chose some that were just a blah brief but at least they still the satin/nylon/lycra feel.

I would still take her shopping for lingerie and she would see some that were really ****ty and shiny and say "I'll bet you love these right?" and she would roll her eyes and smile with an annoyed, but endearing expression and toss them in the basket. When she wasn't looking, I would throw some in there too that I wanted and then carry the basket around the store. When it was time to pay, I would tell her I was thirsty and ask her to run to the mall food court and grab me a soda. Then, I could get my things along with hers without her knowing. I stashed them and kept it well-hidden from her. Although things were going better, they still weren't quite right. And I always felt like something was a little off. As time went on, it did gradually get better but whenever we had a normal married couple argument, the CDing always came up if it got too heated.

Also, when we did make love, I always wanted to wear the panties which bothered her immensely. I just loved the feel of them against my skin. The sex was the same as always, it was just panties I wanted to throw in. I tried to back of off it, but I noticed that sexually, she became more and more distant and reserved and just not that into it. Fights were getting more and more frequent and the fire started to fade. When we did have sex, it was usually drunken makeup sex after a fight. In fact, the only time I've ever CD in front of anyone was during one of those drunken sexcapades. I stumbled into the other room where she kept her clothes and put on a vinyl teddy, thigh highs, opera gloves, a red vinyl thong, and red thigh high boots and walked into the room and we had some of the wildest, longest sex ever. She was ecstatic and so was I. When we were done, she told me she loved it and rubbed her hands all over the me in the clothes and we drifted off to sleep very much in love. Well, passed out is more like it. When she woke up the next morning and saw me laying next to her in the outfit, she flipped out. So, there's my lone experience of being dressed around someone. Sorry to ramble, but I needed to get it off my chest... I apologize.

Now, to the point. We separated and eventually got the divorce. Within a few months of living on my own, I was in need of a new closet for my femme wardrobe. Now, I CD and it feels good, but it's just to fill up that void again. We get along and try to stay friends, but anytime there is an argument, she threatens to tell about my CDing. Luckily, we didn't have children, but in the beginning I did get the threats of her telling friends and family and telling coworkers. It was blackmail. Same as you. She actually tried to say it to some friends early on in the split, but I blew it off and just said she was nuts. If nobody has any proof, then it just looks like she's crazy making accusations against you to try to gain leverage in a battle for mutual friends. She comes off looking like the one with a "problem".

Personally, she's in the wrong. Since I was a small child, I was taught to appreciate people for what they were on the inside and not the outside. I was taught as a small child to not make fun of others because their clothes were different or not made by an expensive designer. As a ****ing child I was taught this! What's more superficial than clothes? I can't count how many times I heard women in person, on TV, in books, movies, magazine articles, etc. complain that "their man doesn't look at them the same way because they got older, gained some weight, got a few gray hairs, etc. and "Why can't he love me for who I am on the inside?" After my situation and hearing yours and many others like it, I would love to see the reactions of every woman that has ever asked those questions if they saw their hubby/boyfriend walk out in full drag and say that they were a crossdresser. My guess is that at LEAST 90% would get the same reaction the OP and myself had.

I hope you find peace and that both of you find your way back to each other. I hope that if it doesn't work out, that you view it as her that caused it all to end. That may sound like some odd advice, but I just look at it in terms of my own situation. My marriage was happy and good and I tried to open up and just tell her about something I had DONE. I wasn't dressing at the time... I just told her I had done it before and it was essentially a dealbreaker for her. It just took a few years for it to break all the way. If she would've been more understanding, she could've had her dream marriage.

Crossdressing is completely superficial and innocuous. at least in my case. I never did anything that deserved her level of disgust and I don't think that you did either.

Whew! Everyone seems to have weighed in on this, but one thing seems to have gone unsaid so far.

Samantha, you need to know that a whole lot of us, CD's, GG's, and whatever, feel for you and care about you at this difficult time.

Please consider this to be a virtual hug, delivered over the miles that may lie between us.

You and your wife and your family will be in our thoughts and in our prayers.

Persephone.

SHINY-J I don't agree with some of what you posted, and I do agree with some of what you posted. Regardless, I just wanted to say THANK YOU for such a long, well thought out post. Welcome to the forum!

wow Samantha

i really hope everything will turn out good eventually.
your wife might just need sometime to think and help just give her that time.
therapy for her might help but yea it all wil take time.

i havent been in these kind of situations because iam only 19
but yea i did read many of these kind of problems and most of them they all just needed some time to accept it.
but i do see her side that she feel betrayed she trusted you for 12 years of marrige and yet you just now she needs to come with it.
but yea i know its very hard i still didnt find a way to tell my parent but thats my problem not your.

i hope everything will be ok

robin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JulieC

SHINY-J I don't agree with some of what you posted, and I do agree with some of what you posted.

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I'd like to say the same thing.

Welcome to the forum, Shiny. :) What I'm about to say may seem harsh, but as an outsider, it is objective. I do want to tell you that I have been fully supportive of my SO in and out of the bedroom since the beginning and we go out everywhere together when she's herself. But, she was honest with me from the very start, so I went into the relationship with my eyes wide open.

From your story, I gather that your ex was OK with the concept of alternative lifestyles and also CDing as long as it wasn't in her backyard, but she didn't take it well when you told her about yourself some years into the marriage. I want to point out this is natural for most people, no matter the issue. It's easier to adopt a laissez-faire attitude when issues don't impact us directly. It's also difficult to deal with broken trust when the truth comes out after some years.

You chose to use the time immediately after she found out, when she was coming to terms with being married to a CDer, to sneak behind her back and wear her clothes. She eventually came around and tried to be supportive, yet you insisted on resorting to subterfuge and sneaking panties into your shopping cart for example. I'm not putting you down for wanting the panties, but this is a passive way of dealing with it and it would have been best for the two of you to deal with it differently. Your actions eroded her trust further. And last, you say she threatened and blackmailed you during arguments. Did she ever follow through, since you are prepared to deny who you are to anyone she *may* tell and try to make her out to be crazy? And did you ever say things in anger to her as well? Just wondering.

I don't want to take away from your pain and your frustration. The situation wasn't easy for you either. But, there are always two sides to every story.

Shiny,
Here we have a case of meeting someone, someone to the eye because of acceptance to alternative lifestyles you would think could be more understanding to yours.. Then the hammer goes down to find it is not the case, being single myself that type of person in my search raises a flag to rather I choose to see her or move to the next .. Was I ever mistaken!!

Just because someone shows a tolerance to an alternative lifestyle does not mean she will choose one a partner. Many GG's here will be upset to hear that for most the only choice is to hide the dressing urges and allow the partner to fall in love with you ..
I agree it is a terrible way to find a partner ,one I will not do but many others do.. The best way to getting a accepting partner would be slowly intrudcing your desires and being honest from the start.. I am preaching to the choir I know and this isn't meant to beat up on you either . I will not settle for any GG who will not accept me wholely believe me there are some out there who do find an attraction to us but very few and in between are willing to ..

Why? Because GG's have other concerns ,Family and friends and what they may think, Thier children it may seem they would rather put a alcoholic above you because of perception .Isn't that sad? Whats really sad is most of us are decent hard working level headed ,family oriented, understanding,careing indulviduales who do not wish to be exposed to no other than our partner.

I was not "discovered"; I told my wife after 15 1/2 years of marriage. It too did not go well. My story is, like so many others on this site, similar to yours. I only told her about my c/ding because I realized it was only a matter of time before she discovered my hidden wardrobe. We've been in therapy for two years - w/o therapy I'm fairly certain we would have been divorced by now. After talking about this endlessly together and with the therapist, it boils down to her feeling betrayed. If I had told her up front, it would have been a deal breaker for her and we both would have moved on. However, by creating the situation I did, she feels trapped. Divorce would be at great sacrifice. She feels that in addition to the feeling of betrayal she has lost the physical attraction which was so important to her. She has seen me dressed and pictures of my enfemme. Also, she has visited c/ding websites and has seen postings by crossdressers that profess to occasionally fanticizing they're female during sex. That raises questions about "lesbianism" in her mind. Actually, I get it. I went to great length to look, dress, act, walk, talk and feel female. I cannot convince her that I don't do that during sex.....especially when some other crossdressers have posted that they sometimes wear articles of womens' clothing during sex with their SOs. She acknowledges that it may be okay for some women but, like religion and politics, everyone has their own feelings about these things. It's okay for them but don't tell her how to believe in God, who to vote for and what to accept regarding sex and crossdressing. I guess I get that too.

Over 2 years ago, I voluntarily told my wife after 16 years of marriage. I most definitely should have told her sooner, but I think I was still unsure if it was just a phase or if I wanted to fully dress or just wear hose and heels occasionally or what. Alot of binging and purging during that time for sure.

I know the frustration you are going through first hand. The best advice I have ever been given is take it very slow. If you have to, let her set the pace of acceptance. Baby steps. Because, as I like to say, my wife always dreamed of marrying her knight in shining armor, but now she finds out her knight likes to be a princess in 3-inch heels from time-to-time. Understandably quite a shock to her.

You know ... this has been mentioned in many other threads, but not in this one yet (I think :p).

We do have GGs who, when finding out after years of marriage (for some, decades), who don't automatically scream *divorce* due to the broken trust. A lot of it has to do with the state of the marriage to begin with. With a 50% divorce rate in this country, it is not surprising there are many other marital issues that come into play when a wife discovers after some years that her husband CDs. But for some reason, these other issues are seldom discussed when a CDer comes in here and speaks of his wife's non-support.

Just saying. It might not be a bad strategy to work on all the other marital issues first and get the marriage in good shape before tackling the additional issues surrounding the CDing.