Trying to understand behavior

Kelly,

Two things come to mind while reading this whole (very interesting) post.

One, when your boyfriend strikes back defensively (and it sounds like he will due to his level of self-acceptance) with "You think there's something wrong with me." Reply along the lines of, "No. I am simply looking for support to wrap my head around this concept - one that you have had a lifetime to work on."

The second thing is your strength as a woman. I think may on this board will agree that women - through the benefit of their communication skills, their genetics, their upbringing, and their natural flexibility - are the "stronger" sex. You talk of walking on eggshells so as not to crush him. Are you talking of his feminine side or of his male?

Finally, I'm glad you said the word "pretty" when referencing your boyfriend. That implies a level of acceptance that may surprise even you. Many women would find it distasteful to admit that their man makes a pretty woman.

Kathi

KellyV,
I don't know how old you are or what kind of life experience you bring to this, but (speaking as one whose "been through it") you display an incredible level of matter-of-fact acceptance, maturity, and love that really is a quantum leap above what most ever achieve. As almost an aside, I can't imagine why he'd ever argue with you about ANYTHING! That'd solve the problem! If you guys don't make it, it's not on you! If he loses you, he'll regret it for the rest
of his life.

I'm not one who blames SO's for not accepting, even though that lack of acceptance cost me a 30 year marriage, and the love of my life. We ask for, and maybe even expect, to not be judged too harshly for being wired a little differently. The flip side of that is that we shouldn't be too quick to blame our SO's if they're not wired to accept it.

You are truly a gem. I suspect that this matter-of-fact attitude carries over into all other aspects of your life. It's really wonderful! Give yourself a pat on the back. Maybe you've picked up some valuable insight from this thread, but don't let it complicate your simple outlook. I love it!

The only thing I can say is that for me there are days that I get home from work put on some heavy metal music, take my shirt off, leave my pants and socks on and go to bed.

I say this because there are just moments that we go through that nothing seams right and we go to what we "know". For me that is sleeping in my male pants, socks on and no shirt. That is how I slept when I was a firefighter many years ago (makes you able to get dressed and out the door faster) and that is my ultimate happy place, and at the same time sad, in my life. I do this on my really rough personal days when "Jennifer" and "Brian" are hashing things out and I don't quit feel comfortable wherever I am.

[QUOTE=KellyV GG;1858088]



Now I feel like I have to walk on eggshells to protect his fragile side. Which doesn't seem fair, but at the same time I wish I could take all of that away and certainly don't want to make it worse. But if something non CD related is bothering me is it better to wait until he's in boy mode and therefore more comfortable with himself before we deal with it? I know that if I have to tiptoe around for months or years until he feels comfortable with himself I will more than likely really resent it.


No in my opinion you do not and should not walk on egg shells, you just act normal in that way he will get use to your normality and will get over his difficulties a lot quicker , it mite sound odd but that is the way it works as the more you shelter him the longer it will take him to realise that you look upon it as something quite normal and acceptable for him to be doing (that is the Cding ) not the tantrums .

Kelly, :hugs:

You've said many things I'd like to address. I hope you don't mind the long post. If my advice seems harsh, it is not intended to make you feel uncomfortable, but to try to point you to a different way of thinking. When I first began seeing my BF, not knowing how to be in a relationship with a CD seemed like such a huge issue, since I had never been in a situation like this. It was difficult for me to separate the CDing from the non-CDing issues, and this was the primary reason I joined this forum.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Is it possible to ever be comfortable with anyone if you are dealing with constant guilt and shame?

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It takes time. Lots of non-CDs deal with guilt or shame over past events, or other issues .. like jealousy, or depression. Life is cyclical and it does require an SO to be patient, as long as the one who experiences the issue recognizes he or she needs to work on it. You never know if one day you might be the one with a difficult issue to deal with and you will want him to be there to support you.

You can let him know that you understand how difficult it is for him to talk about this, since you know he's had to keep it to himself all his life, but it is hard for you when he doesn't let you in. Gently ask him to work on this, and tell him you will do your best to continue to be supportive in any way he wants you to be.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

I asked him what makes him want to dress, which I did last night. His answer: a very uncomfortable "dunno, it's just clothes". And when I tried to push it farther he completely shut down. Don't know where to go from here.

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Go back and read the last paragraph of post #36 for suggestions! :)

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Now I feel like I have to walk on eggshells to protect his fragile side. Which doesn't seem fair, but at the same time I wish I could take all of that away and certainly don't want to make it worse.

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You do not need to walk on eggshells. Just accept where he is with the CDing at the moment, and don't try to rush a resolution. The best you can do is to be there when he wants to talk about it, but otherwise, step back and just enjoy her company.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

But if something non CD realted is bothering me is it better to wait until he's in boy mode and therefore more comfortable with himself before we deal with it? I know that if I have to tiptoe around for months or years until he feels comfortable with himself I will more than likely really resent it.

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Unless he dresses far more often than he is in guy mode, then yes I would wait until he is no longer dressed if something unpleasant comes up that needs to be discussed. Certainly anything to do with the CDing. Think of it this way: if you and he (in guy mode) had looked forward for weeks to celebrate an anniversary at an exclusive restaurant, and something came up during dinner, wouldn't you let it slide and reserve the discussion until later?

Having said that, once my BF and I were at a GLBT club while dressed, and something happened to upset me. I excused myself and took a walk outside to center myself again, and came back in when my head was clear. We discussed the issue the next day. I've discussed things at the moment in the past, and believe me, the results were much better when I waited. Not so much for him, but for me, since I was calmer.

Lol. It gets easier. Last weekend we went to a burlesque show dressed. He knew that a stripper he had dated a few times some years ago had organized the show, but it turned out that she was also starring in it, with her long blonde hair and perfect body. (Probably implants!) :p She did a hot, steamy number with another woman. They sensuously spread wet, milky paint all over their naked bodies with their hands and washed it off again very slowly, also using their tongues and arching their backs. You could almost hear the hard breathing of every man around us. :rolleyes: I nearly walked out, :) but I took a deep breath and took it in stride. I was very relieved when the number was over with. We talked it over afterwards and everything was fine.

Getting back to you, another suggestion might be to tell him you feel upset about something and it cannot wait, so ask him if he would like to change first before you discuss it together.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

I accept her, have shopped for her, have done her make-up, have run all over London searching for the right wigs, shoes, etc...which I would never even do for myself, too much bother. So...here she is, everythings complicated and I'm running around like a mad woman trying to make sure she has what she needs. This is supposed to be a good thing but it just gets more and more complex.

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Kelly, you need to stop doing this. You are not responsible for her CDing. And you will wear yourself ragged. This is no fun for anyone, not even your BF. Let him take the lead. You can suggest things, but let her or him decide. Once in a while, for a nice surprise, you can bring home a small gift, but the rest is entirely up to him.

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Originally Posted by deja true

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In fact, as PaulaJane says, you may even be exacerbating his retreat into himself. Not ever having had any acceptance, he may be finding yours almost unbelievable. And, oddly, that's kinda scary, too.

So there must be another way...

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He may also feel rushed to be who he is not ready to be right now, just to make you happy. This is not unheard of. Take a back seat to it, Kelly, and just turn the matter back into his hands.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

It hurts to see someone you love going thru something neither one of you understand. It's horrible to see it..or anything..as a curse you are forced to live with.

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Yes, but that's life. None of us can live other people's pain. Do you have children? As parents we realize the best we can do is be supportive, be there if they need us, but let them fly on their own and make their own mistakes. This applies to everyone ... siblings, partners, friends. The trick is to learn to be OK when life isn't perfect, because we have no other choice. We cannot fix things for everyone. And we wouldn't expect others to take care of our issues either. Try to look at the CDing as a journey that the two of you are embarking upon together, and try to be OK with not knowing and letting go of the outcomes.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Not a chance in the world at this point. I mentioned this forum and maybe talking to other people in his position which was immediately met with "so, you're saying there's something wrong with me!" and no matter how gently I try to re-approach the subject I'm immediately shot down.

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The answer is simple: "Not at all .. I just thought you might enjoy talking to people who are quite happy with the CDing. But, it is entirely up to you, I'm happy with whatever you decide."
:hugs:

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Originally Posted by deja true

Yowch!

This is maybe the root of the problem... a refusal to even try to accept....
I guess most would say that you've gotta back off a little ... but...
I'm thinkin' that very quiet, very calm, very loving, very gentle pressure might help...

no recriminations ... no expressed frustration .... just love!

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Refusal to accept is definately the root of the problem I think.
He claims that he's never done this before, that it's just a new thing that's come on since I've been in his life. Gawd...How frustrating is that to hear? Please...how insulting. So he's using me to justify this to me. It doesn't help that I'm a New Yorker, living in London and he's from a quaint little nicey nicey English village so communication wise what I consider gentle pressure could be interpreted as coming on like a steam roller.

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

KellyV,


I don't think you're going to get through because I believe you intimidate her. You're sharp as a tack and you know her awful secret, it's no wonder she needs to "man" up.

She needs a friend.

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Well, I know I'm not going to get thru and I know I intimidate her/him...and I know he's ashamed and I know he/she (very hard to call him her) needs a friend but it's not gonna happen. I''m hoping time will change that....

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Originally Posted by Kathi Lake

Kelly,

One, when your boyfriend strikes back defensively (and it sounds like he will due to his level of self-acceptance) with "You think there's something wrong with me." Reply along the lines of, "No. I am simply looking for support to wrap my head around this concept - one that you have had a lifetime to work on."

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Tried that...he claims that this is all new and apparently just popped up out of nowhere so when I brought that up he acted all offended. How do you respond to that?

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Originally Posted by Kathi Lake

You talk of walking on eggshells so as not to crush him. Are you talking of his feminine side or of his male?

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Both really. He's appears super confident. But god forbid I mention that someone else is attractive or not notice something he's done. He takes everything so personally. So...I knew he had self esteem issues but all of this new stuff sure explains all of that, I guess. Phew...hard enough dealing with a touchy man, now I have to deal with an insecure woman too.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

KellyV,

. The flip side of that is that we shouldn't be too quick to blame our SO's if they're not wired to accept it.

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Imagine this...your wife has a secret. Your underwear starts disapearing. So do your stockings. One day, she drops a bomb on you. It's something you can't even begin to understand. She needs you to tho, it's "who she is". She needs an entirely new wardrobe, is shopping like crazy -12 of everything isn't enough, it takes over your life. She has to do it, she needs to express herself. And you need to accept an entirely new personality. She splits apart in front of you and can't even explain to you what she's going thru or why or how it feels...nothing. On top of that, your social life completely changes, you spend evenings in because she can't leave the house and express herself the way she needs to. it's now your secret too. This new person is moody, touchy, confused and probably needs therapy. There's not alot you can do to help. She expects you to understand and accept this new alter ego. You begin questioning her sexuality, your own and you have no idea where this may lead. How many men...or women...are wired to accept something like that. I don't think many men would be very accepting at all. I don't know why it's not a problem for me, why I haven't flinched, we are all different but it's alot to ask another person to accept at face value.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

tell him you will do your best to continue to be supportive in any way he wants you to be.

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ReineD...thank you so much for the excellent post and fantastic advice. It's very much appreciated and taken to heart. Here's an example of how touchy he/she is...when I dared use the word supportive he got all upset because "just because I like to wear women's clothing to relax doesn't mean I need support. You make it sound like I have a problem". There's apparently not a thing I can say....

Kelly,

It sounds like he's in full defensive mode currently.

My guess is that all you can do now is try to open the lines of communication without pushing him away.

The ball is in his court. If he can't find a way to reach out to you, you may have to reconsider the relationship.
I'd give it more time.

Also a tip a therapist told me once (and assuming that he has no substance abuse history).....get him tipsy over a bottle of wine or drinks, while you stay relatively sober. Now gently probe him over these issues, and you might see some interesting information come forth. It's worth a try.

Good luck,
Chris

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Imagine this...your wife has a secret. Your underwear starts disapearing. So do your stockings. One day, she drops a bomb on you. It's something you can't even begin to understand. She needs you to tho, it's "who she is". She needs an entirely new wardrobe, is shopping like crazy -12 of everything isn't enough, it takes over your life. She has to do it, she needs to express herself. And you need to accept an entirely new personality. She splits apart in front of you and can't even explain to you what she's going thru or why or how it feels...nothing. On top of that, your social life completely changes, you spend evenings in because she can't leave the house and express herself the way she needs to. it's now your secret too. This new person is moody, touchy, confused and probably needs therapy. There's not alot you can do to help. She expects you to understand and accept this new alter ego. You begin questioning her sexuality, your own and you have no idea where this may lead. How many men...or women...are wired to accept something like that. I don't think many men would be very accepting at all. I don't know why it's not a problem for me, why I haven't flinched, we are all different but it's alot to ask another person to accept at face value.

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I know it is hard to adjust to a CDing relationship, both for the CD and the GG. But, it would be hard to adjust to any situation out of the norm. Think of a spouse developing clinical depression. Or MS. Or having experienced the death of a child, one of the partners can no longer function. Or say you become a paraplegic after an accident. Or there is a torrid affair with someone else. There are many situations that can make relationships difficult.

I don't know what it is that enables couples to get through life's challenges together and survive. But some do. They get through it and reap the rewards later. Or they cannot and they split up. I think it has to do with the amount of love and commitment there is in a relationship and having the ability to communicate and compromise.

If the relationship is unbearable for you, then you need to walk away. If you believe your love to be strong enough to try to make it work, then it might be best to try different tactics than you have already. Either way, it is your choice. You cannot "make" him be the person you want him to be, and vice-versa. Like it or not, the CDing is at whatever point it is in his life and he needs to resolve his issues at his own pace. Explaining things to him calmly as I've suggested before is really the only way, and then leave it at that. Do not engage with him if he accuses you of believing that he is sick and he "needs support".

He either is as difficult to talk to as you describe, or the two of you are communicating on entirely different planes. We cannot tell you what to do, or how to "fix" him, or if he should tell his side, how he could "fix" you. But the anger you feel, although very real and understandable, will not help the two of you move beyond this.

You need to decide, Kelly, whether staying in this relationship is what you really want. And if you do want to make it work, well, we all know it is not easy .... lol. You don't need to convince us. But do go back, take one or two of the suggestions you've received, and try them out. And try to keep your cool. :hugs: I hope you can make things work.
:hugs:

Last thought ... if he is not ready to share the CDing with you as much as you would like him to, then why not just wait until he can? I'm assuming you live the bulk of your lives together while he is in guy mode?

This is one of those situations the GG's talk about.

It's NOT the dressing that's the problem. If this wonderful woman can't make this work, the CD'r will surely blame it on the dressing but I think we've all clearly seen the real issue.

KellyV, your posts are riveting.


-Misty

Kelly,
I may not have been very clear. What I meant was I dont blame SO's (you) when you can't accept us (cders). Sorry about the confusion. Believe me, I'm on your side.

For what it's worth, I think you're dealing with something beyond crossdressing here. I've crossdressed for a long time, and, from reading posts on here and elsewhere for a long time, I'd say I'm pretty typical (althought that covers a lot of ground). MOST of what you dexcribe is very different from me. The clothing is just an adjunct. My very non-professional diagnosis is... this is a mess.

I wouldn't have any idea how to start making this better, and I AM a crossdresser!

Ok first welcome to our family. Now I am responding before I read all the responses why, Well I have a thought and want to express it first. Now for me and maybe for you BF when he's dressed he feels very feminine, So his emotions are right there. We men are taught to NOT get emotional and be manly. When he's dressed and you argue , He does not know how to handle the feeling and the raw emotion SHE is now having. Changing back to Male-mode is a self defence mechanism to keep his emotional ("DAM" so to speak) for breaking until he can get used to all of the fem-felling she will have. We are like little girls whom can't control of crying anger etc. Joy comes easy but the rest comes slower. We are like teenagers when it comes to shopping , makeup etc. We also have the emotion of a teen. Just not sure how to deal with it so she has to change back to something that HE can handle better. Now when you bf is in fem-mode more and experiences the wave of emotion's that women do ( granted we may never get there fully but we may get close) we are over whelmed by them. Just think of the way you feel when things go right , or go so wrong, That's when we can feel 24/7 since most of us can remember but could and was taught not to express. Now that he can it over loads her and makes her go the what she has been used to all her life.

Men and women have such a different way of dealing with there emotions that it can seam weired , but you just have to think , "my bf is dealing with two fully different sets of emotions that her/his feeling might confuse her/him. I only use her/him when I want to show the two side of a CD. We (most of us) have had this fight most if not all our life and when we have to deal with it fully it can scare , or confuse us. I have know I was a CDer since I was 4 , but did not know why and kelp it from everyone. So until I came out to my family and friends in 92 no one even had a clue. Now I can go out dressed and been having the time of my life. I have no girl friend right now but I am looking.

So if that happens again just tell her if you think she is going to change tell her that even though your arguing she should stay dressed cuz she need to deal with the emotions she feels. YNK she might have a break through.

I hope I helped , I may be off base but that's the way I see it. It's my :2c: worth. good luck and please keep and open mind she is very , very ,lucky to have you. :love::hugs:

Ok i just read all through. There has been a lot of great advice here and only you can decide what you need to take.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Argggghhhh...what does that mean????? Geeeeeeeezzzz....I have given him 1000% freedom...it's all about him getting in touch with her right now in our lives. Sorry to get off topic but...what's the answer???? Slow him down to give him a chance to process his feelings or just take the hinges off the closet door like I have and let him go wild. Really it's not my place to determine that, it's his life, his issue to process but I'm trying....it's impossible to figure out. At least I can borrow his lipstick...looking for upsides.

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When some one is in jail for 20 30 years and get out, Fear in all around, They can't get used to being free, their used to being told when to eat when to sleep , what to do for work etc. Now there out free and now there scared and don't know how to deal with it. It can be similar to CDing . You (locked up in your own mind) and now you find a GF that has set you free and you don't know what to think. Your so used to someone tell you what to do that the out side world seems big and scary. She also might be in denial on how long he has wanted to do this. Although some CDs have been late bloomers and found they like to dress after 30 40 50 years and it scares them and even if they have the love and acceptance of a GF they are as said ashamed and guilty cuz they don't know why there not the man they thought they were. The girls like me who knew since we were kids may be a little better and faster at excepting our true selves , but we still need time. As I said I came out when I was 22 to my family and I did not start dressing until last year Aug 8 2008 , that's how long it took me to (get ready to dressssssssssss) And I excepted my CDing when was about 10 to 13 or so. After I started to dress out in public it took me about 10 month to be really comfortable with all of my life as a CD. Your BF need time to get there .

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

What are the right questions to ask without sounding like I'm accusing him of something and without him getting defensive? It's very uncomfortable even going there..I'm not sure that he knows how he feels and I don't want to push it but I know that we REALLY need to talk about it.....thanks!

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The right questions are the ones in your heart you need to be asked. You need to sit HIM down and tell him you care for him as much as you do and make sure that he knows that you love his fem-side and will wait for him/her to be comfortable en-fem. It will be a waiting game until he figgers out his feeling . Just remember he has to deal with male and Female feeling. If you think its hard for you it will be twice as hard for him. Good luck and if you need My support just PM me hun KK.:love: Your the best hun.

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

...if you are dealing with something that causes so much shame, guilt and confusion and continuing to do it causes more shame and guilt, what's the benefit?

It's so hard to understand. And how do I make it easier? He won't talk about it and quite obviously doesn't know how to define what's going on inside himself.
........Cheers....Kelly

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I've been dealing with guilt ever since I started dressing about 10 years ago. I was over 50, and had never even THOT of trying on ladies things! That has happened to others here, too! So, it COULD have happened to your BF!

I kept my CD secret completely inside for 8 years!

What's the benefit, and why can't I quit? Compulsiveness DOESN'T run in my family! No alcoholics, gamblers, smokers, or druggies! All hardworking family folks! So,what is it about my "recent" CDing that is so compulsive?

I REALLY DON'T KNOW!:doh:

Kelly, men r used to talking things over with their buds! They DON'T tend to talk about VERY personal subjects directly, but somehow, walk around the edge of those subjects. Many compassionate men, will NOT push too hard for details!

I have NOT found that same compassion in women. In my experience, they'll push for every juicy detail! On the other hand, women seem more compassionate when they've heard those details, than men r!

My point being, I can discuss almost anything with my buds! I think they would be thotful, helpful, and keep our conversations to themselves! Even if I was gay! However, CDs MITE fall into the same category as pediphiles with them!
If they told folks about me, they'd rationalize that they were WARNING THEM!:sad:

Your BF may have the same problem! Being used to discussing his personal problems with his men buds. But, unable to reveal his CDing to them!

Kelly, I suggest u stick with him as long as u r able to. Be helpful, supportive, and there for him. If HE wants to talk, great! He'll eventually HAVE to talk to someone. I feel sure that if u r there for the long haul, it will be to u!:hugs:

There is a certain "mood" that makes for a successful crossdressing experience. Because of the "vigorous discussion" that had nothing to do with crossdressing, his mood changed and and it was no longer enjoyable.

Try having intimate relations after having the same argument, I'll bet it doesn't work out too well either...

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Originally Posted by ChrisP

Kelly,

My guess is that all you can do now is try to open the lines of communication without pushing him away.

The ball is in his court. If he can't find a way to reach out to you, you may have to reconsider the relationship.
I'd give it more time.

Also a tip a therapist told me once (and assuming that he has no substance abuse history).....get him tipsy over a bottle of wine or drinks, while you stay relatively sober. Now gently probe him over these issues, and you might see some interesting information come forth. It's worth a try.

Good luck,
Chris

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Thanks Chris...I might just try that. But in do I do it when he's in girl or boy mode? I'm not even close to reconsidering this relationship. I know that I need patience...that's hard tho.

One good thing...we were in a neighborhood in London yesterday we have never been to before. There were some funky little shops and in one of them were 3 CD'ers, not even close to passing but looking really good, shopping away and having a great time. So I said see....it's not that strange at all. Perfect timing for that to happen. And then we got him several skirts. And he did talk to me a little bit last night while in boy mode. So guess I'm gonna have to be happy with little bits as they come out.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Like it or not, the CDing is at whatever point it is in his life and he needs to resolve his issues at his own pace. Explaining things to him calmly as I've suggested before is really the only way, and then leave it at that. Do not engage with him if he accuses you of believing that he is sick and he "needs support".

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You're right...it's just that I think I have been wonderful, therefore I deserve to know exactly what point the CDing is at in his life. And I know...maybe he doesn't know himself. It will be a long time before I suggest anything that puts him in a place to accuse me of believing he's sick or needs support. That's frustrating ecspecially when I know how much just this forum would help him.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

But the anger you feel, although very real and understandable, will not help the two of you move beyond this.

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I don't think I'm angry....definately very frustrated. OK and maybe a bit resentful because I think that if you're going to be in a relationship and you're lucky enough to have an understanding, non-judgemental partner then whta's the problem?

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Last thought ... if he is not ready to share the CDing with you as much as you would like him to, then why not just wait until he can? I'm assuming you live the bulk of your lives together while he is in guy mode?

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Although he's is guy mode way more than girl mode...the shopping, etc...well, you all know....it's always right there so he might as well be dressed all of the time. Don't want to wait, but it's the best nd only thing I can do, I guess....thanks for that.

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

It's NOT the dressing that's the problem.

-Misty

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Ooo... this just occured to me. Using the dressing as a scapegoat for anything and everything is the easy way out of anything and everything....isn't it? Hmmmm...

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

Kelly,
I may not have been very clear. What I meant was I dont blame SO's (you) when you can't accept us (cders). Sorry about the confusion. Believe me, I'm on your side.

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Sorry..I know you are. Just had a little rant that needed to come out, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

I wouldn't have any idea how to start making this better, and I AM a crossdresser!

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Yikes...

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Originally Posted by Christina W

when he's dressed he feels very feminine, So his emotions are right there. We men are taught to NOT get emotional and be manly. When he's dressed and you argue , He does not know how to handle the feeling and the raw emotion SHE is now having.
Men and women have such a different way of dealing with there emotions that it can seam weired , but you just have to think , "my bf is dealing with two fully different sets of emotions that her/his feeling might confuse her/him. asked.

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Christina....thank you for the wonderful post. I so appreciate your willingness to share all of that. Very helpful, thanks again. The split emotions are something I hadn't considered before posting here. And I can't say I understand but maybe it's one of those things where you just can't walk in someone else's shoes (in this case heels...) So..is it like having a split emotional life inside of you, as opposed to an alter ego or secondary...or primary or equal, whatever...personality? And do I have to live with 2 emotional personalities that react and process things in very or completely different manners? Can you ever just integrate it all and get to a healthy emotional place or do you have to pick a side...or let the side pick you, I guess...

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

I've been dealing with guilt ever since I started dressing about 10 years ago. I was over 50, and had never even THOT of trying on ladies things! That has happened to others here, too! So, it COULD have happened to your BF!

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How can that be??? It seriously just popped up out of nowhere? Which is what he claims (he/she is 41). But....the first time I watched him put on stockings...well, seemed a little too natural to him. Ha....as I write this I just got a text that the 3 pairs of new shoes and skirt and blouse he ordered from New Look just arrived...oh my.... Anyway...how does that happen? Do you think you repressed it for 50 years or what/how/why???

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Originally Posted by Karen Francis

There is a certain "mood" that makes for a successful crossdressing experience.

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This is what really bugs me...that I have to take the mood into consideration or god forbid unintentionally say or do something that will spoil the "mood". His/her mood... I do ubnderstand what everyone has said and how complicated it really is, but it makes me want to do something like wear a green hat, or something...no one is allowed to upset me when I'm wearing my green hat because there's a certain mood that goes along with wearing my hat and as along as it's on please do not upset me. Alright that sounds immature, bratty and over simplified, but....I don't know.

Thank you all, really. I can't even imagine how I would be dealing with this if I hadn't found all of you wonderful people....xxx Kelly xxx

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

One good thing...we were in a neighborhood in London yesterday we have never been to before. There were some funky little shops and in one of them were 3 CD'ers, not even close to passing but looking really good, shopping away and having a great time. So I said see....it's not that strange at all. Perfect timing for that to happen. And then we got him several skirts. And he did talk to me a little bit last night while in boy mode. So guess I'm gonna have to be happy with little bits as they come out.

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Serendipitous. With luck, it might get his mind going in a more positive direction. It's hard work with some people (Pretty Moody Tranny syndrome or PMT).

Kelly, you have gone way beyond what many GG's would do. I don't understand why he had to change into male clothes to argue with you. So you should be upset at this.

It sounds like you have gone way out of your to be supportive and helpful. Many CDer's would die to be in his place. It also sounds like he still has some insecurities about dressing..since he felt the need to change

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Originally Posted by Ras

Kelly, you have gone way beyond what many GG's would do. I don't understand why he had to change into male clothes to argue with you. So you should be upset at this.

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Ras, of course you are entitled to your opinion and as well meaning and supportive to Kelley your post is, her BF is where he is at with the CDing and IMO he doesn't need to be judged. There must have been a time, in your own progression, where you would have been mortified to even be seen dressed, let alone discuss emotional issues with someone else.

Had Kelley's BF been dressing with her for years, then you would have a point. But right now I'm afraid Kelly needs to move beyond being upset if she and her BF have any hope of moving past their communication difficulties.
:hugs:

I have this problem too. I just came out to my girlfriend. I don't feel comfortable getting dressed around her yet, and during arguments I just have no desire to dress anymore. It's not because I feel more superior, it just somehow also makes me feel wrong about dressing. Like my man hormones kick in and go "you're not supposed to be wearing this".

What I get out of this is that Kelly's BF is saying "Feed me, feed me, feed me, I'm special, I'm misunderstood," and Kelly is knocking herself out trying to feed him and it's never enough, or it's too much, or there's something not right about it. This would drive anybody nuts! I'd be lying if I said I'd never done something similarly idiotic, but it's still idiotic! My God! Being a crossdresser may make one a little atypical, but it isn't a license to be an inconsiderate b#$tard! He needs to get a grip!

Hi Kelly very riveting thread I was in a relationship much like this but i didnt make her go out and buy me things she never bought anything for me anyway i was open to her i wanted her to register up with this forum but she refused if she did most of the things you are doing it would have been a much stronger relationship I told her i dress even before we met so the ball was in her court to take it further and she did we wound up arguing alot mainly due to the fact that she never even bothered looking into sites like this I applaud you Kelly for making the effort and i do hope your b/f gets over it and comes around and realizes how damn lucky he really is *hugz*

Reine, I was not meaning to "judge" but merely stating my observation form her posts as to ho9w he was reacting. We all have had insecurities with our dressing and the fear of being rejected or call many different names or even being outed. Even after all my years of dressing I still have some insecurites and am trying to answer the question why do I dress. Some days it does not bother me..others it does.

I agree with they need to be very open and communicate what they both want, need and desire and how this will progress so BOTH are happy and acceptable of the dressing.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Ras, of course you are entitled to your opinion and as well meaning and supportive to Kelley your post is, her BF is where he is at with the CDing and IMO he doesn't need to be judged. There must have been a time, in your own progression, where you would have been mortified to even be seen dressed, let alone discuss emotional issues with someone else.

Had Kelley's BF been dressing with her for years, then you would have a point. But right now I'm afraid Kelly needs to move beyond being upset if she and her BF have any hope of moving past their communication difficulties.
:hugs:

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:iagree: :)

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Can you ever just integrate it all and get to a healthy emotional place or do you have to pick a side...or let the side pick you, I guess...

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I believe that is exactly where many of us want to get to. I know that I am close. As a result though, I am seen as a bit odd. As a woman, I dress as a woman, my mannerisms are those of a woman, my speech patterns are those of a woman. My voice, however, stays firmly in the male range. Reason? Well, I'm not a woman, nor do I really want to be one. I am a guy that simply likes to dress as fully as possible - mostly for blending. Someone who looks like a woman from a distance will get less looks than one that is obviously a male in a dress (in my experience, anyway). Plus, it's fun!

As a man, I dress as a man. My speech patterns are less womanly, but still a bit on the feminine side (inflection, range, etc.), as are my mannerisms. I try to walk like a guy, but I kind of forgot how - a point of contention with my wife, who sees me walk from behind and says things like "Calm those hips down, Slugger!).

So, I am pretty firmly integrated - right in the middle. It may be a strange place to be, but you know what? I'm supremely happy! I view the desires I have not as a curse or a "condition" but a blessing. My life basically rocks. :)

Kathi

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Christina....thank you for the wonderful post. I so appreciate your willingness to share all of that. Very helpful, thanks again. The split emotions are something I hadn't considered before posting here. And I can't say I understand but maybe it's one of those things where you just can't walk in someone Else's shoes (in this case heels...) So..is it like having a split emotional life inside of you, as opposed to an alter ego or secondary...or primary or equal, whatever...personality? And do I have to live with 2 emotional personalities that react and process things in very or completely different manners? Can you ever just integrate it all and get to a healthy emotional place or do you have to pick a side...or let the side pick you, I guess...

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Well HE/SHE has both in what ever his mode is. It is a part of him not 2 personalities but one. When he is in Male mode he is expressing his male side he grew up with. In fem-mode he is expressing the girl he has either repressed all his life or just found. When you talk to his male side you are TALKING to a man who just happens to have a large female side to him. I started a thread awhile ago here's the link it might help you understand My thoughts on our struggle with it.http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=103226 . Now this is just my idea of how we feel but you also get some others giving there take on there own feeling on the subject. It will be a hard road and he will struggle with inner demons until he is really to open up fully. He could be so afraid that when he does open up to you fully that you will be disgusted and leave him. YNK.

Oh if I forgot to say this YOU ROCK BABY.!!!!:D:love:

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Originally Posted by KellyV GG

Now I feel like I have to walk on eggshells to protect his fragile side. Which doesn't seem fair, but at the same time I wish I could take all of that away and certainly don't want to make it worse. But if something non CD realted is bothering me is it better to wait until he's in boy mode and therefore more comfortable with himself before we deal with it? I know that if I have to tiptoe around for months or years until he feels comfortable with himself I will more than likely really resent it.

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If he is dressing regularly as you describe than that should allow him to get to grips much faster with his emotions and feelings than most other members here who are usually greatly restricted when they can transform, so I would say months rather than years. It is in effect a female puberty that he is going through - it takes time to explore and understand what it all means and to get the initial excitement of new experiences under his belt.

What is unfair to you and many other SOs is when the CD does not want to grow up. The fun and escapism of having an alter ego is addictive and many CDs are happy to keep two seperate identities. This is an unhealthy situation and a difficult one to accommodate inside a relationship. You are quite right to demand that this type of split personality is not going to work and you expect him, in due course with your support, to become self-accepting and fuse his femininity into his normal personality. He needs to be just him irregardless of what clothes he wears. He needs to be able to feel feminine without having to always resort to the trigger mechanism of dressing up.

But as others have said you need to be patient, this is going to take a while. Don't fall for the trap of resenting him and his dressing because that will destroy your relationship. It is like dealing with a kid - one minute they make you laugh, the next they make you want to tear your hair out. But kids grow up and so will your SO if you give him the space and support.

One other thing, his sensitivity about his dressing as being considered as something wrong - you need to reassure him that is not the case, rather it is the split personality that is wrong. His job is to integrate his feelings so that you can have a normal life together with a single person, your job is to accept femininity is normal and healthy in men and not to judge him by expecting masculine stereotypical behavior from him.

A CD is the same as a tomboy except that isolation and shame forces us into a closeted fantasyland of escapism and using coping mechanisms like a split personality. A tomboy is not weird or unnatural, you may consider yourself one, but tomboys do not follow the contorted path that CDs do. However it does not have to be this way if you are prepared to offer a guiding hand back to reality.